And this is why having 3rd party app stores is important. It’s why it matters that Google is killing side loading, if two fucking companies get to decide what you can do on your phone, we’re in a bad spot technology wise
We’re in a bad spot technology wise
No doubt. I’ve gotten to the point where I have like 6 apps on my phone and it’s in lockdown mode on iOS. And I’d be on grapheneOS if I wasn’t required to use iOS for work.
Can you have your job pay for an iPhone while you have a different personal phone? I’m a big fan of keeping a work device that’s separate from a personal device.
I probably could, but I’m also a recovering drug addict and my partner is pretty hesitant about a second device as it’s another way to hide things. However I’m the head of the MDM team so I’m not really nervous about what the company can see
I thought you were head of the MDMA team for a second and thought that could be rough as a recovering drug addict
Definitely got the experience required for the job
Oddly I’ve only tried MDMA a few times and it never really worked. There’s some anecdotal evidence that it doesn’t work for those with bipolar which I do have, that might be the one drug I could be in charge of with no temptation actually
I do this. Highly recommended.
And the open source movement is such a blind spot to the ‘left’ as well, even though technology freedom is critical if you want to be able to organise any type of resistance in the digital space.
Lemmy users largely get it, obviously, but centre left people will happily let themselves get locked into the Apple/Google walled gardens even though you’re just giving that company a ridiculous amount of power over you.
Right? The collective dismissal of Mastodon from leftist influencers when the Muskening happened was eye opening.
Like, there’s a collaborative, volunteer-based platform right over there. You want mutual aid? Open-source is as mutual-aid as it gets.
But it’s nerd shit.
Because they are controlled opposition.
The only time something not controlled got popular was TikTok and you saw how quickly both parties went to ban it in 2024 after normal people started talking about Gaza genocide in every day conversation. The American Congress worked together to ban it even though they couldn’t agree on anything else.
It went from an Asian platform where Asian people in the West connected with each other outside the mainstream blue pill/red pill false choice and shared culture as well as history that isn’t taught, to “here’s the truth about Jesus” and “the world is flat debate me” after that vote. Now it’s full on MAGA.
Mastodon is harder to control because servers can pop up organically, but I guess Threads was a hedge against that threat.
The only time something not controlled got popular was TikTok
I’m not sure what you mean by controlled, but how I got to know it was as the malware that’s recommended to everyone on the front page of the google play store, and then even factory preinstalled on a lot of them.
It wasn’t doing anything that Facebook wasn’t already doing, but it got banned. The CEO was brought in front of Congress and racially profiled, gave strong answers, and then got banned anyway.
Wonder why?
TikTok hate was a bot farm. The algorithm was always a reflection of the user.
Also, on xitter are all these assholes I don’t care about. I can’t leave that platform. Pathetic!
Those same people are also still using Twitter or Instagram or TikTok.
People will never understand intricacies like that. On the other hand, the big tech corps do. We are doomed
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We rapidly need to switch to Linux Mobile. PostmarketOS and Mobian are the two most promising projects, and I would highly recommend anyone reading this to donate to them if you have the means.
Both projects directly use your donations to hire developers to build and polish the critical essentials to get this alternative viable as a daily driver.
Yeah, people should have listened to the people warning of privacy concerns with online services. Now that your data is valuable, companies will do anything to extract it from you.
Stop using those products, de-Google, install Linux, use self-hosted solutions.
It will take some effort to switch. You get to decide how much effort you’re willing to expend in order to not sacrifice all of your privacy and control of your digital lives.
Just technology wise? I think it’s a little deeper than just technology unfortunately
Oh yeah, of course, but it feels like it’s never part of the conversation, even among people whose opinions I respect and are, for example, super critical of AI and talking about enshittification and other issues in the online sphere, they never seem to take the step to check out Linux, or get off Twitter or whatever.
“Sideloading” is their term, invented to make it sound like something it is not. We should not use this word. The correct word is “installing”.
You don’t “sideload” on Windows when you install software outside of the Microsoft Store™️. There is no real difference or distinction with software on phones, so there is no need for a special word.
I can see Microsoft moving to the same sort of thinking as well. Apple already made Mac OS users jump through hoops when you want to install something from the internet or even through a third party package manager like homebrew.
Not to defend it, but the first time I encountered the term was when BlackBerry released their Playbook tablet. It ran their bbos10 and they created an android emulator so you could run some android apps. The process of installing the apk into the emulator was called sideloading.
I miss BlackBerry is all I really wanted to say.
Not yet.
Windows laready has something like this it’s called S mode i think. IT makes it so you can only instlal stuff frmo the windows store, but you can disable it pretty easily.
Your phone is fucking you no matter what you do.
If people were more aware of how to make and install mobile web apps it would be less of a problem.
At least on the iPhone you can still add a site to your screen that can behave a lot like an app, including camera access, location services, and even gyro. And it’s just a website like most “apps” are.
Most people don’t care about any of that. Firefox with AdBlock to surfe YouTube without ads? Nah, they want the app, which is basically the same, but at least they can’t block ads. I stopped trying to understand
Yeah, me too.
There is a great app called ‘hermit’ on android that gives you a better wepapp experience. Basically a browser tuned to make webapps act native.
Mm
Mm
“Hurd OS? Isn’t that obsolete?” “Not obsolete. Just… illegal.” ~Rainbows End by Vernor Vinge
Honestly, this thing should just been a PWA. Making this naive app was dumb.
Webapps for the rescue!
Google is not killing sideloading. If the dev is willing to submit to Apple for verification, they’d probably not object to submitting it to Google.
E: downvotes for facts, I guess? 🤷
Yes, and then they ban that developer and their apps. It doesn’t matter you can install apps outside of the Play Store, if Google still controls which apps you are allowed to install.
Google is not killing sideloading. If the dev is willing to submit
I see…
I’m surprised it stayed up as long as it did. I thought Apple would have taken it down within days.
Anyways I’ve seen this as a non app alternative: https://www.stopice.net/
I mean yeah honestly probably the best, but I’ll take any chance to rant against the idea of walled garden tech
Would I be paranoid to use a VPN while visiting this site? (And others like it) god only knows if IP’s visiting the site could be uncovered…
Yeah, I’m probably being paranoid…
Not a bad idea. Just make sure your VPN doesn’t cooperate with law enforcement or sell your data otherwise.
Additional note: check if the VPN does DNS or not. If not then use something like NextDNS, or get a VPN (Proton, Mullvad) that does do DNS servers. Plus they usually include better ad-blocking.
Would I be paranoid to use a VPN
Or tor.
Back to the WWW just like the good ol days
I don’t understand why society accepted that the hardware maker gets to decide what software you run.
That’d be like your car deciding which roads you can take, or your blender deciding you’re not allowed to use strawberries in your smoothie.
Are you nuts? Why the fuck would your phone decide which apps you can run?
Maybe our phones are their f’in phones too
Agreed, too many people defend the App Store monopoly.
Is it that non tech people have a hard time understanding this? Or is it just all the corporate lobbying bribes?
There was a person on a Lemmy.zip community that was arguing in favour of a lockdown approach.
That’d be like your car deciding which roads you can take,
It’s a feature for the next release, don’t worry.
“To use this road, please download our optional expansion pack for $4.99”
And for what reason do you not think we’re headed in that direction?
That’s the key difference between mobile devices and actual computers. You are merely a user, not the administrator who can do anything with the hardware.
remember when Tim Apple gifted tRump a golden statue? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Yeah, but are Apple users going to punish Apple for glazing Trump’s tiny manhood by not buying Apple products?
Tim Apple certainly doesn’t think so.
It’s really not that bad a compromise, as far as bribes go. Some cheap gaudy bauble as payment for not interfering with billions of dollars in business?
It’s still a bribe and it’s still encouraging mango mussolini, but very efficient tradeoff
I mean I’m doing my best to only buy second hand iPhones and replace them 5-10 years. The power of Apple is the reoccurring revenues of software and the new phone buyers
I remember him being gifted a golden pager and I’m still holding out hope that he gets the call.
Does anyone remember how the Devs from there didnt want to release for Android because ApPlE iS sOoOo mUcH mOoOrE sEcUrE
Get rekt.
There’s a similar app for Android.
Same problems
Not open source for once
Needs to be a website, would be best on i2p, but i fear no one would be able to figure out how to get to it.
You can use a I2P proxy for access via the clearnet. Additionally, many people can set up I2P proxies that can only being used to access that site. Take one down, there’s a bajillion others to choose.
I2P proxy
With the current political weather, you’re going to want the client anonymity protection. All they need to do is run a handfull of proxies, and they’ll narrow down your house/phone as ICE targets.
We’re beyond the nahh nahh can’t get me because i’m not sharing illegal files, you’ll get trucked off like the immigrants.
If they can log you reporting ICE to a website, you’re toast.
That’s fair. We need a solution to that.
Riseup and similar VPN services need to get spun up more. Or push people to solutions like briar
It’s not accessible enough to someone working 60-70hr weeks trying to make enough to survive as an illegal migrant in the US. Maybe if people were actually out there protecting their neighbours and being the ones checking these sorts of apps. But they’re all living paycheck to paycheck too and just aren’t. Trump’s current policies are literal decades in the making.
I think you mistook what Im saying. Im saying, as a project, those who can, should set up these in proxies to aid those who cant and need it.
I understood that, I’m talking about even setting up the proxies on a device so you can access services. It’s my understanding that I2P is similar enough to Tor. A user setting themselves up to access a Tor service is still difficult for the average user, especially if they are time poor.
In terms of security alone, iPhones easily beat most Android phones. Which may be a fair argument in favor of iPhones. However, to ignore Apple’s policies and long history of delisting similar apps is delusional.
In regards to security, Apple does have three upsides, and only those:
- No sideloading and no unlocked bootloader means you can’t sideload malware or install malware-preloaded ROMs. No root also means you can’t just install malware that uses root access.
- Long OS support means fewer people run around with iPhones that are 5 OS versions behind.
- There’s no tiny boutique iPhone manufacturers who sell phones that come pre-loaded with malware.
The solution for the first one is “don’t sideload untrusted stuff” and the solution to the second and third one is “buy an Android phone from a trusted manufacturer that has long term OS support”.
No sideloading and no unlocked bootloader means you can’t sideload malware or install malware-preloaded ROMs
It’s a simple configuration change to disable it and can be done with any corporate MDM system, making this a moot point. Not to mention too many people don’t understand security, so Android is taking away sideloading anyway, FoR sEcUriTY
No root also means you can’t just install malware that uses root access
The vast majority of Android phones do not come with root access. For both, you generally have to elevate access yourself
Long OS support means fewer people run around with iPhones that are 5 OS versions behind
If you’re running an out-of-date OS, clearly security is not a priority
There’s no tiny boutique iPhone manufacturers who sell phones that come pre-loaded with malware
Supply chain attacks absolutely can happen to iPhones as well. There are plenty of re-sellers
You missed the actual security benefit over iOS that Android cannot compete with: Apple controls the entire software chain from security patch to OTA update. This allows them to patch and release a fix for critical vulnerabilities far faster than any Android device possibly could. Apple does not need to get the approval of an OEM (such as Samsung), and, due to special deals, they do not need to get the approval of a carrier (like Verizon). Android devices typically need to get approvals from both before releasing updates (although Google flagship phones can bypass one, and can fast track the other)
The downside there is there are no checks on Apple. They could release a horribly vulnerable patch with no additional checks in-between
You don’t seem to get my point and seem to think that I’m some apple fanboy that you need to convince or win against.
I use android, I’ve never used iOS. I enjoy the freedom of sideloading. Still it is a fact that the overwhelming majority of malware infections on Android happen due to side loading. The percentage of devices running corporate MDM is tiny, making this a moot point.
The vast majority of Android phones do not come with root access. For both, you generally have to elevate access yourself
And yet quite a few devices in the wild run rooted or custom ROMs.
If you’re running an out-of-date OS, clearly security is not a priority
You seem to forget what this thread is about. It’s not about personal security and whether one can run a safe android device, but about an app developer not providing an Android version, because the platform as a whole (meaning the average user) is less secure.
Personal preferences like paying for a new, non-outdated phone don’t really matter for that big picture view.
Supply chain attacks absolutely can happen to iPhones as well. There are plenty of re-sellers
That’s a strange argument. Getting malware that survives a factory reset onto an iPhone without apple’s approval is close to impossible. Making an Android phone from scratch that contains malware right in the system image has been done over and over again. You are argueing a hypothetical versus something that happens every day.
Long os support meant to intentionally brick your iphone so you buy new. That is 100% true as I had many apple products started degrading after upgrade and still have old models that are not upgraded and work perfectly
I’m not defending apple here. Short OS support (or none at all) is not a good thing, and it’s something that’s sadly still quite common if you buy the wrong Android brand.
Samsung is doing pretty well in that regard right now.
In other words do not confuse long support with good support as these are totally different things
Sorry, didn’t think I had to clarify it. Long support is good IF has good intentions behind it. Most long supported os has bad intentions behind it as making old models inferior and unusable as in case with ios on iphone 5. For example in my opinion windows xp was THE best windows, maybe on par with seven. So if you give me two options, first is updating my phone so it becomes laggy and unusable or keep current version, I will choose to stay on old OS.
Most long supported os has bad intentions behind it as making old models inferior and unusable as in case with ios on iphone 5.
Your evidence is an iPhone that came out 13 years ago last month? Back in those days, the year over year improvements in the hardware were immense, and the software tried to take advantage of it. But people would complain, A Lot, if those features didn’t come to their older device. Do you remember how much folks lost their mind when the iPhone 4 came out and iOS 4 allowed it and the 3GS to have a home screen wallpaper, but not the iPhone 3G? People were pissed and called it “planned obsolescence” that it didn’t get the feature. So, when the iPhone 4 hit iOS 7, they included all the animations. And then people called it planned obsolescence that it stuttered.
It really depends on what your goal is. Usability, keeping a familiar interface, performance, all of that are things that make it reasonable to stay on an outdated OS, and none of these reasons are bad.
Security (which is the only thing we are really talking about here) does require updates.
If security is your most important concern, you need to update. If security is not your biggest concern and other topics are more important for you, it might be reasonable to stay on older versions.
But in the context of this post, which was purely about security, having long term security updates is important.
You say that based on what?
Based on most smartphones being very insecure. Of course, iPhones aren’t extremely secure, but the competition is practically nonexistent. Pretty much the only secure Android phones are Pixels. Samsung is considered one of the more secure manufacturers too, but according to GrapheneOS devs it’s still way behind Google.
Note that even police and government agencies sometimes have trouble getting into iPhones. They never have such troubles getting into Android smartphones, except Pixels.
This is by no means meant to advertise iPhones. It’s just a simple observation that security in smartphones is heavily lacking.
So based on marketing.
Dude give one example so we can google and have our own opinion. You are just saying “because they said so/because someone considered it so”.
Look up grapheneos’s reasoning
Both iPhones and Android phones can be configured to your desired security level. Both are used by various government agencies around the world for their most important secrets. Neither are secure out of the box. You have to harden them to your desired level of security
Arguing whether Android or iOS is more secure is a bit like arguing whether an SUV or pickup is safer. It doesn’t matter which you pick when basic security steps are magnitudes more important: Wearing a safety belt, having a functioning air bag, driving a safe speed, not driving drunk, etc.
In terms of security alone, iPhones easily beat most Android phones
That’s not how security works in the modern tech landscape. No major OS is going to meet a high security standard out of the box. All of them have to be configured to the desired security level, then be added to ongoing security efforts. Every major OS can be secured to the highest security standards
The primary difference is how much effort each takes, but even then there isn’t much of a difference. You’ll find tooling and in-house expertise makes a much larger difference than the OS
The myth that some OS are inherently secure really needs to die off
Every major OS can be secured to the highest security standards
Has Android added E2EE to their cloud backups yet like Apple has?
Apple is no friend to any of us, but Google openly and shamelessly scrapes every piece of data you put on their phones. Apple is absolutely the lesser of these two evils with out of the box functionality. I say this as a lifelong Android fan and Apple hater that entered the cybersecurity space and am only interested in the most private option I can get out of the box.
Like an Android can be more secure and private than an IPhone, but afaik that involves owning a Pixel specifically and installing an entirely different OS on it, one that Google a Is also out to get.
“Good thing I got revenge though on Google’s sideloading ban by buying a phone that never allowed it to begin with”
We should make webapps for everything. When done properly they are as fast as native apps, can work on any device and do not require a dev license or account.
They’re now supported on Firefox on Android, so good news!
Webapps are now supported on Firefox? Holy smokes!
Yup!
I don’t know what that button does but I’m fairly sure it’s not about support for web-apps. Firefox has always supported web-apps, because web-apps are just interactive websites.
It’s the button to pin a PWA to the taskbar by reading the manifest.json
https://www.maketecheasier.com/enable-progressive-web-apps-firefox/
Firefox has always supported web-apps, because web-apps are just interactive websites
That’s from August, when support was added back after the feature being dropped in 2020.
Mozilla has released Firefox 143.0. The update lets users pin web apps to the taskbar, but only on Windows.
About a month [ago], I reported that progressive web apps (PWAs) are available via Firefox’s Labs. Now, the feature is available for everyone on Windows.
This is for the September 16 update.
Progressive Web-apps are a particular kind of web-app. The person you replied to just referred to “webapps”, not this special kind of web-app. Firefox has always supported web-apps.
The nature of progressive web-apps means that you can use them even if the browser doesn’t explicitly support them. All that explicit support does is wrap the web-app in an icon and reduced browser window.
About time!
Thanks for the great news!
Completely agreed. Nowadays we even have WASM that can run more advanced things, and may even give webapps sandboxed capabilities, and can be run natively on any device with a WASM runtime.
Sweet solution
there are technically alternative marketplaces on iOS in the EU, but they do the exact thing google is now copying off apple: apple still has to give the green light. apple “notarizes” every app, even if it goes through a third party app store. this changes the app irreversibly, and ios/ipados devices can only install notarized apps.
I’m gonna play devils advocate here (and probably be monstrously downvoted);
ICEBlock stored the location data of all its users on Apples iCloud Servers. This the perfect target for ICE; a complete database of locations of every person who doesn’t want ICE to know where they are.
One assumption is that that Apple realised how tempting this data is to the current demonstrative administration and purged it before ICE could get their civil-liberty-abusing mitts on it.
Something worth noting, if you are using iCloud, advanced data protection is your friend. Apple doesn’t have the encryption keys, you do.
This is not on by default.
Advanced Data Protection does require all iCloud Ecosystem devices to be current.
Not every person can afford the latest and greatest.
Current or on a current OS?
Edit: I just enabled it and I have a iPhone 11 on my iCloud account.
So, just latest OS.
Which Apple gives you basically forever instead of maybe a year of old updates with android.
It requires iOS 16 and MacOS 13.
The devices that max out at those operating systems are 9 and 10 year old.
Or they removed it to keep up the appearance that it wasn’t actually a honeypot to begin with.
Money is always the answer with these “people”.
To assume otherwise is to feed the beast
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Disclaimer: The app is closed source, so all we can go off is the developer’s word, although the fact the government removed it is a strong indicator they don’t have access to data from the app
The developer stated they do not even retain any identifying data, so the only data the government could get is public anyway. Through Apple they’d be able to see who downloaded it, and likely when it was used. Your defense would be easy enough though: “I just wanted to make sure the libs weren’t harassing our
fascistpatriotic ICE agents near me”It is impossible to send a (edit: true) push notification to a device without knowing which device it is going to. The developer may not know/have access to that information, but Apple/Google know which devices they are sending those pushes to. If it wasn’t a true push notification, then they would not arrive in a timely manner and potentially only when the app was opened the next time.
He was using true push notifications, so the government could just subpoena that information.
He could maybe obfuscate who initiated the initial message, but its impossible to do that for the receivers.
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When I had an iPhone 3GS I got in a hot tub with it in my pocket and it died. I let it dry out. Then I very carefully took it apart and found all the little white stickers inside that turn from white to pink when in contact with water. I used a razor blade to remove those stickers without damaging them. I then placed a drop of bleach on each which turned them back to white and let them dry out. I used very tiny amounts of super glue to re-apply them to the exact same positions within the phone and then very carefully reassembled the phone.
Took the phone into an Apple store. Guy disappeared into the back for about 10 minutes with it. Came back out and said it must have just up and died but he doesn’t know how and gave me a new iPhone.
Only Apple product I’ve ever owned.
Fuck you Apple.
nooice
Google’s sideloading restrictions seems almost like its perfectly timed… 👀
Anyways, Google can gargle my:
google also recently removed thier similar anti-ice app.
How to choose between this and GrapheneOS, CalyxOS, etc? I feel ready for the switch too.
Edit: Plus is it possible to get banking apps and Google Wallet to still work (easily) in these Android-based alternatives?
Mostly: Price
Are you willing to, either: (a) spend $500-$600 for a new Google Pixel? (the 9 that is, I don’t think 10 is ready for GrapheneOS yet), or (b) willing to dig into the second hand market and potentially get not-unlockable phones? (those run rampant in the used market, note that Carrier Unlock does not equate to Bootloader Unlock, and Verizon ones are guaranteed to not allow bootloader unlocking, I’m unsure about other carriers)
(Also you are kinda supporting google if you get a new one btw.)
I personally don’t wanna spend $500 since if it ever breaks, its hard to replace or even repair. And I hate dealing with the used market.
So for me, Graphene isn’t an option.
I went for the cheapest new Moto that has custom ROM support, Moto G 5G 2024 for $140 (carrier variants do not unlock).
I’m basically still testing to see what wouldn’t work, haven’t really be using it as a “daily driver”
I’ve also come across the CMF Phone 1 which is OLED and supports e/OS its about $300
TLDR: Get Graphene if you can afford a pixel or willing to look for a used phone from a reputable source. I personally do not like used phones because I think there’s too much risks IMO, you might assess the risks differently. Other options are Moto G 5G 2024 for $140 which runs both LineageOS and e/OS, or CMF (by Nothing) Phone 1 which runs e/OS and is an overall much better phone, but its more expensive, at $250 for 128 GB and $300 for the 256 GB.
Oh one last thing: Even “New” “Unlocked” cheap Pixels on sites like Amazon aren’t guaranteed to unlock. I was looking at older pixels like the 6a, 7, 7a and checked the reviews and some comments indicate they are locked to Verizon because the reseller didn’t unlock it for some reason, so I’m get the vibes that its unsold stock previously owned by carriers, so I don’t know if they’ll bootloader unlock, even if its SIM unlocked. Where as CMF never has carrier variants, so they all should unlock.
Edit: Also, the CMF phone needs the IMEI added in to carriers such as ATT and Verizon, since they use IMEI whitelisting, Tmobile is fine. For some countries like, Australia they also does nationwide whitelisting. Custom ROMs can break VoLTE, rendering it not work with cell service for csrriers that require VoLTE, Might wanna research about that.
In Australia it’s a blocklist, not an allowlist. I think some VoLTE-capable devices may have been swept up in the blocking that occurred with the ending of 3G services, that you can manually have allowed, but it depends on carrier and device. Most though are fine.
I don’t like how the default answer around here is to just get a pixel. It seems so backwards
Who could have seen this coming from the company whose CEO gifted Trump a literal gold plaque in celebration of his reelection?
Hey, you know nothing about the absurd pressure billionaire CEO’s are unde/sr
This is cowardice from Apple, but ICEBlock was not a good app:
Doesn’t matter if it was good or not.
Apps used only for criminal activities should not be on the store. It’s insane that they even let it get on the store in the first place.
The only criminality involved with ICEblock would be that of ICE kidnapping and detaining people, even people legally in the country and including US citizens.
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This kind of thing is coming for Android as well once Google has converted it to it’s own walled garden bullshit.
the USA Goverment probably forced them to remove it
not probably; the doj forced apple to remove it and apple caved: https://www.404media.co/iceblock-owner-after-apple-removes-app-we-are-determined-to-fight-this/
ofc
I keep seeing things about how x, y or z company “caved” to government pressure, as if companies have ever made value judgements in the modern era. What this decision would have come down to, the only thing it could legally come down to, is shareholder value. Considering Apple secured a reprieve on tariffs, it’s absolutely within reason that Trump and/or his administration threatened them with cancelling said reprieve. At that point, the decision would be based off the loss of sales for taking it down, against the loss of sales of devices due to tariff price increases.
Apple has a fiduciary duty to their shareholders first and foremost. There is nothing stopping this batshit insane administration from enacting tariffs, and then using the SEC and DOJ to investigate and bring charges that they aren’t upholding their responsibilities to their investors.
apple could easily move all manufacturing and operations to canada and demolish the us economy…
Ahahahahahahahahahahahaaa, oh wait, you’re serious? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Edit: I know I’m being a fair bit of a jerk in the rest of my comment, but this is pawssibly the most ridiculous assertion that I’ve seen on Lemmy, and I have no idea how to pawperly refute it.
They probably just hinted. These companies are eager to please Trump. Remember the trophy Tim Apple gave Trump? Capitalists love fascism.
oh yeah,makes sense tho
not even a solid gold base, a cheap gold base, with a “glass sculpture”
No, they don’t have to. The corporations are the ones who want to control everyone. The U.S government is just a tool for them. The politicians are basically just actors at this point.
It’s a bit more complicated than that and trump also isn’t as easy to control cause he is a member of the billionare class. It’s why there was that movement to try and replace trump with DeSantis. There’s also multiple factions. of billionaires as well. Some of them are idealogical fascists. Some only care about money. Some are technofeudalists. Corporations or more accuratlely Capitalists control the government yes. But the billionare class isn’t a monolith. There’s also a cost benefit analysis. Morals aside there is little benefit for apple to oppose trump unless they think opposing trump will significantly impact their sales. Which reasonably don’t think will be the case. especially if the competitor is also playing ball.
They also caved into PRC government and they removed the apps that reported on HK police activity and added restrictions for airdrop to make information sharing harder.
no shit
Keep on buying, y’all. Show 'em we mean business when we’re appalled at their actions. Giving them more money will surely let them know how much we want change!
Oh we are way passed the point where “voting with your dollar” means literally anything. These billionaires are making more money than they ever have in human history. They have literally turned all of society across large swaths of the world into a gigantic personal capital generator. It makes literally not a single difference if all of us here boycotted them or not. It’s meaningless.
Tell that to Disney.
A big problem is that people need smartphones for so much of modern life. You can stop watching Disney and your life won’t meaningfully change but it’s really hard to avoid evil smartphone companies. Part of me wants to switch from Apple but what would I go to? Samsung who’s just as bad about right to repair? Google who’s Google? I’m not saying it’s impossible but I’m not going to say that the choice is as easy as cancelling a streaming service.
A big problem is that people need smartphones for so much of modern life.
Do you though? They’re convenient, for sure, but you can also use a dumbphone and a laptop.
Yea, just gunna carry my laptop around with me everywhere. And that’s not even talking about all the nonsense on laptops that most people can’t deal with.
Keyword: convenient
Yeah this is generally the take I hear the most. The smartphone is presented as a necessity and for a lot of people that may be true, but what it really is is a tool for capitalism. It spies on you, gives you fomo, serves you ads, gives access to all kinds of addictive content… oh and work apps!
It’s like AI, shoved down our throats until people think it’s needed. It’s not.
Your smartphone serves you ads?
I would say you’re missing some nuance in these arguments, though.
With a phone people no longer need laptops or full-sized computers and they also get a phone and camera to go along with it. They get a lot of power even just using fairly mundane apps like email, file storage, and a calendar. And then you have access to the internet and all the power that comes with that. I also don’t know why you think phones show ads.
AI, on the other hand, is hot fucking garbage at everything it does. Why anyone uses it I can’t say, it’s so bad and it’s known that it’s actively making people dumber. I don’t touch the stuff and my life has been going just fine.
Do you really think this situation is comparable in any way to Jimmy Kimmel? I really don’t. Even if it were, nowhere near that many Apple customers care whether or not the app that targets fascist militias is on the app store or not.
I do think it’s comparable. All of this is about money. Americans are funding all of this crap with the, albeit controlled, choices we make with our money. Our taxes are funding genocides and coups and war and destruction; our purchasing habits are funding the decline of our planet and our social structures and our sanity.
You’re right though, consumers will likely never change in large enough quantities to make a real difference. People are already resubbing to Hulu so…
Jimmy Kimmel made Disney a lot of money. They had to choose between pressure from the US government, and losing a popular source of revenue along with the vast amount of liberals who swore them off. Jimmy Kimmel was not a real institutional threat to the US government. So the US government did not have a very strong incentive to continuously push for him being taken down, and Disney had a lot of incentive to keep him around.
An app that targets fascists makes Apple no money. The US government faces the loss (or rendering ineffective) of their fascist police force. Both sides therefore face a huge amount of pressure to have the app taken down. It would have to be a gigantic part of their profit margin to warrant any pushback from Apple. I’d be very, very surprised to hear that this change is ever overturned through a boycott.
Americans are funding all of this crap with the, albeit controlled, choices we make with our money.
To an extent, yes, but the dollar has been decoupled from gold a long time ago, they can literally just print money in the billions and they do (although there days it’s probably
money++on a mainframe), completely sidestepping tax money…
…and it happened in a vacuum, just all by itself.
Every revolution famously begins with everyone giving up completely.
Can you show me where I said to do nothing? Or is boycotting the only form of collective action you’re aware of?
No, but great idea gatekeeping collective action. We surely need less of it.
I wasnt gatekeeping it. Just pointing out how ultimately ineffective it is in creating meaningful change.
Defeatist subservient take
Every time I hear people talk like that I begin to think they dont understand basic microeconomics.
Yes, as opposed to spending money at another capitalist institution that will inevitably do the same thing, which is somehow not a subservient take.
There are a lot of other ways to apply pressure besides boycotts. I dont think a boycott would ever work against Apple over this.
ah good ol Cynicism. Might as well find yourself a giant pot to live in while they’re still available!
I dont understand why recommending other forms of collective action makes me cynical.
Where was that again?
There are a lot of other ways to apply pressure besides boycotts.
?
It makes literally not a single difference if all of us here boycotted them or not. It’s meaningless.
Just lemmy users? Sure, but you don’t stop with just lemmy users.
These billionaires are making more money than they ever have in human history
Honest to god do you think that money magically appears in their pocket. We can still claw it back. Unionize, boycott, collective action is our strongest pressure against them and IT DOES WORK.
collective action is our strongest pressure against them
Which is why governments fight so much to make it hard.
In my neck of the woods it’s not cool to unionize and there’s no home owners’ association, people only rally for their favorite sports team but don’t bother voting.I guess we get what we deserve.
I agree that collective action is our strongest pressure against them and it does work.
I do not think a boycott itself is likely to reverse Apple’s removal of the app. I also think it makes more sense for the app to become available from a web browser, or some other avenue that circumvents the need for Apple’s approval in the first place.
I also believe that collective action in this circumstance is better spent on ICE itself, which would be more effective (its the reason the US government wants Apple to remove the app in the first place) and more direct to fascist power.
Im sure thats why disney quickly reversed gear with cancelling kimmel after loosing 3.8B overnight
