“You know we have cameras in that town. You can’t get a breath of fresh air in or out of that place without us knowing,” Milliman said to Elser, according to Ring doorbell footage of the Sept. 27 encounter viewed by The Colorado Sun.
And he saw nothing wrong with that.
Are you kidding? They’re proud of it. They honestly think it’s a good thing. Along with the recent article about ICE stopping brown people and using a phone app to ID them from a photograph , we’ve rocketed right past the Papers-Please phase of fascism into a high tech dystopian end game.
And yet still, somewhere out there, there is a fake or brain dead leftist spouting on about how democrats support genocide.
“Chemo makes me sick, so Ill stick with Cancer”
I mean some of them legit do (cough Fetterman), and a lot just don’t particularly care about stopping it, but that’s beside the point, I know the kind of people you’re actually talking about. There is still value in electing the lesser evil, and pushing to get better and more progressive Dems in office (that are usually better at pushing back against fascism anyways)
know the kind of people you’re actually talking about. There is still value in electing the lesser evil, and pushing to get better and more progressive Dems in office (that are usually better at pushing back against fascism anyways)
This is exactly my point. The democrats have huge AIPAC backing and support some awful things, but they are fucking saints compared to the only other options in this political system.
They are the only potential vehicles for long term change and stability exactly the way you described.
Progressive candidates have to be winning primaries despite swimming upstream, and democrats have to continue winning federally despite the bad taste (chemo) they put in your mouth.
Additionally, the citizens who support this kind of government surveillance are fine with a few innocents getting charged.
So long as they aren’t the ones getting turned into the new fountain on the campus, they couldn’t care less.
Particularly if those innocents are the “right” color.
I strongly encourage everyone interested in this topic (and you should be!) to read the article because this shit runs deep and they see absolutely no problem approaching the law in this fashion. Absolutely disgusting erosion of liberty and privacy, though it’s not the least bit surprising. Here’s an excerpt i found particularly chilling–this cop is fully convinced (or acting as if he were) about the validity of this minimal-effort investigation they apparently were ready to arrest someone over. Note that weeks later it was fully disproven and ended with a terse email acknowledging that she provided enough proof to absolve herself as the suspect. No accountability for their mistake, just: “you can go now”
“You know we have cameras in that town. You can’t get a breath of fresh air in or out of that place without us knowing,” Milliman said to Elser, according to Ring doorbell footage of the Sept. 27 encounter viewed by The Colorado Sun.
“Just as an example, you’ve driven there about 20 times in the last month,” he added.
Along with the Flock footage, the sergeant told Elser he also had a video from the theft victim that allegedly showed Elser ringing the doorbell before grabbing a package and running away.
My favorite part
“I guess this is a shock to you, but I am telling you, this is a lock. One hundred percent. No doubt,” Milliman said.
😳
But Elser, a financial advisor, told the sergeant she had no idea what he was talking about. She asked several times to watch the video that Milliman insisted proved her guilt, but he refused to show her. And when Elser offered up footage from her Rivian’s onboard cameras to prove her innocence, Milliman said she could bring it to court.
“It doesn’t matter. I’ll be giving this all to you. If you are going to deny it to me, I am not going to help you with any courtesy,” Milliman said.
“It’s kind of funny because we have cameras on our truck, so we could show you exactly where we were,” Elser said.
We are really fucked here. No accountability on their end, while foisting 200% accountability on ours.
Yeah, been like this for quite a while. They can drag you for a while, lose their case, shrug it off, and continue as normal.
Meanwhile, you lost your job after your arrest, maybe even were denied bail and had to stay ~2 years in jail waiting for trial, and spent $100k on legal expenses. Winning at trial gives you no restitution for those massive losses. You’re expected to also shrug it off and continue life.
whatever happened to the right to a speedy trial? too many ppl give that up or is it not even asked anymore and you just have to know?
They just redefined “speedy” to be several years.
Sometimes lawyers do preliminary motions like to suppress unconstitutional search warrants or change of venue and stuff. If it’s complex, it can take a while, and defense cannot request speedy trial if they’re filing things, but you also don’t necessarily want to forgo filing useful things.
Also, if they violate the constitutional right to a speedy trial, you can file a habeas corpus or something and, even if you win, there’s still no consequence except them shrugging and saying oops.
This reminds me of how police abuse any new tool they’re given.
Like how while trained dogs can actually sniff out drugs, when they’re given to police, they get retrained to simply alert whenever the police want them to, and essentially become a flimsy reason to let police violate your rights and search anybody they want to.
And the police suffer zero repercussions for their actions. If they don’t find drugs, there’s nobody who’s going to take them to court and force them to retrain their dogs or to disallow drug dogs from being used as reasonable suspicion.
We are really fucked here. No accountability on their end, while foisting 200% accountability on ours.
Is there some reason victims can’t just sue flock into oblivion?
Good question! Frankly, i don’t know. I have a feeling there would be some way they’re protected in this arrangement since they’re ‘helping’ law enforcement but that’s far from even approaching legal precedent. I imagine questions like yours are going to be challenged in the courts as we move forward… 🫠
Qualified immunity, Hasan Minhaj did a whole Patriot Act episode on it
If “video of someone roughly looking like you” is enough to completely reverse the burden of proof, then you can throw the whole justice system out of the window.
I thought it was interesting that she was ok with all the neighbourhood surveillance until it was used against her.
Worth noting that Ring has announced a partnership with Flock.
So if you’re in the Ring ecosystem, maybe time to re-consider.
lol it’s literally an Amazon business. Should have been time to reconsider when Bezos loudly said that Ring footage can be used for anything they want.
So many reasons to re-consider.
I am stuck in a residence where the owner doesn’t consider surveillance to be a threat model. It sucks.
Unless you’re self hosting your own cameras, just don’t. If you don’t control the data then it’s somebody else’s camera.
What are the laws about search warrants around home cameras and the 5th amendment?
I’ve thought about setting up old smart phone based IP cameras around my house facing out windows. But decided that if it comes down to arresting people for anti regime speech, that having cameras with background audio of private conversations wasn’t a good idea.
I’m not sure it matters if it’s legal or not anymore these days.
Still, they can legally demand any recordings from you if they reasonably can know that such recordings exist. Generally they will need a warrant or they may subpoena you for the evidence that they know you have. You can even be arrested for erasing your own footage as destruction of evidence.
Obligatory statement that I am not a lawyer and this isn’t legal advice.
They can only get it with a search warrant. If everything is encrypted with a sufficiently strong password, I think the court precedent is that they can’t compel you to reveal the password.
To get a warrant, they need to convince a judge that it’s necessary to prove guilt in a specific crime, which means they need at least reasonable suspicion before even asking for the footage.
Yeah, really my question should have been about encrypted footage and my 5th amendment to protecting the password to the footage.
Hopefully no one needs to test this to find out.
The question for smartphones has been tried in court IIRC. Basically, police can compel you to unlock your phone with biometrics, but cannot compel you to unlock it if it’s a password, and the difference is your fingerprint is something you have, whereas a password is something you know. Your fingerprint is subject to the fourth amendment and your password is subject to the fifth.
So when it comes to video footage, the password is protected, so they’d need to break the encryption or the password, they couldn’t compel you to reveal it.
Just a little too unlikely to worry about. I’d rather defend my own words in court if it came to that. “Yeah I said that shit, and it was fucking true and you know it.” for example
She feared the impact a theft charge, though small, would have on her financial career.
Wild that a false accusation, after being proven as false at the court of law, can still impact one’s career.
because when they run a background check on you they see you were charged. and that’s all that matters. you are untouchable to most employers.
Yeah, that’s something that absolutely has to change. I don’t care if “career criminals get out of charges all the time”. A false charge should not follow you for the rest of your life.
Then again, I also believe that if you serve your time in prison and are released, you should not have a publicly searchable record that can be used to deny you opportunities. So take my opinion as you will
Agreed, and prison should be for rehabilitation.
Perhaps prisoners could be released in one of two states: completed time or rehabilitated. The latter carries a much lower chance of recidivism. Maybe the first iffense could be hidden regardless, and expunged entirely after some period of time (10 years?), whereas on the second offense, both are searchable.
IDK, but I do believe in forgiveness.
My friend in Australia had a judge lie that he pleaded guilty to a previous crime (in reality the chips dropped the charge). That kind of bias can invalidate her decision should he appeal (there were plenty of other errors in the decision too).
However it is near impossible to find a lawyer who will appeal and point out the judge lied because that lawyer would fear coming up against the corrupt judge in future.
I don’t think that’s true, do you have evidence of that?
In my country, employers have low trust and expectations on their new hires (and therefore low wages and high turnover) so they ask anyone applying for work to show up with what’s called a “police clearance” and a “NBI clearance” (NBI = National Bureau of Investigation, a less-sophisticated developing country equivalent of the FBI) documents to make sure they’re not felons.
Wow. In ex-USSR past convictions are a problem, but when you were cleared of charges - that really is wild. I mean, OK, the rate of convictions is not exactly normal in ex-USSR too.
I mean by this comparison that people here usually think we have it worse with the conviction record.
Why can’t they see the outcome?
No different to cancel culture
What are you on about
deleted by creator
So because she is better off financially and is not worried about google tracking, she had all the cameras, GPS tracking, and everything set up to prove her innocence.
I decline all of that stuff and i would have a MUCH tougher time proving my innocence when wrongly accused like she was.
This is just another step towards fascism where police are charging people for crimes they never committed, based on AI and computers screwing up.
That’s intentional. Someone just makes shit up, using a magic machine, so that their responsibility were in doubt for other similar irresponsible people with ability to fuck up others’ lives.
There should be a responsible policeman for every such decision, going to jail for at least as much time as she would were she convicted, when the decision is wrong.
Important for those who don’t know: police can legally lie to you. Happens all the time when they’re trying to get a confession. In a discussion, they’ll be like “we have your fingerprints matched and we have video of you, so it’s better if you’re just honest with us.” But they often don’t have anything which is why they’re desperate for a confession.
Weird to me that people are taking issue with the cameras more than the police work.
The problem here is charges being made with weak evidence and officers legally allowed to lie. I had a similar experience, but she was smarter than me. I was 22 and naive, thinking I didn’t need to prove my innocence because they have to prove my guilt in court (logically seemed impossible when I wasn’t guilty). The presumption of innocence is a lie. And juries and judges don’t operate with pure logic and reason. I had to learn the hard way, losing many years of my life.
And that’s why you DON’T TALK TO THE POLICE.
If you are detained, do not talk at all, even if you’re nervous, even if you think you’re being helpful. Do not volunteer anything. If you are arrested, you say exactly this and nothing else: “I invoke my right to remain silent, and I invoke my right to an attorney.” Repeat that exact phrase AND NOTHING ELSE until you have your attorney present.
they came to my door to arrest me on false pretenses. they ask me to leave my house because my children died. they kept making shit up until they left.
This is exactly the tactic the officer was employing here (for a sub $25 theft), not showing the accused the evidence so they don’t know what the police might or might not know.
At some point in the process, there is “discovery” where both sides share their evidence before trial to avoid going to trial for stupid stuff (like this.) But you usually have to engage thousands of dollars of legal services before discovery is available, again over a sub $25 theft allegation.
The officer sweating her for driving through his town on the day somebody porch pirated somebody else is really ridiculous.
I got pulled over the other day. The reason given was a lane change violation (which was bullshit pretense, it was right outside a very rural, but very busy, bar so this was likely actually entrapment, tho I was for sure under the legal limit - I was there to check out line dancing because I’ve never seen it before, and only had one beer in the hour I was there).
I also had a very expired registration (haven’t driven much, and didn’t realize I forgot to renew it).
But I got let off everything with a warning…? I spent days trying to figure it out because it should have been a ticket… he didn’t even seem interested in waiting for me to dig out my insurance info (which I had, just had to get it out of my wallet).
But I have a dash cam… and it records sound. It would have proven I didn’t violate anything, and he was recorded saying why I was pulled over so no way to flub it and say it was actually the registration all along, and thus the pretense for pulling me over in the first place was void. I’m pretty sure that’s the only reason I got off with a list of warnings rather than tickets.
Back in the days before dash cams I got let off with warnings a few times. Once in a while they actually are human beings, but that’s rare when they’re on a month end quota filling mission.
Everyone freaking out has forgotten: Do not talk to the police. Guilt is determined in court and anything you say, drumroll please, can be used against you. You will not talk your way out of getting arrested, shut the fuck up, and sort it out in court. The only person there to help you is your lawyer, the police are not there to help you.
Damn I use to love these guys videos. Taught me a lot over the years. Shut the fuck up when cops ask questions!
Problem is a theft charge would have ruined her and by the time its taken to court it shows up on a background check for you.
So in this case talking to police chief and stuff did help her.
AI is built on a reward system. Its sole reason for existence is to complete its task and get the reward points. It will create false information to do this. One AI that a lawyer “accidentally” used in court actually created its own 4-5 page court cases to use as citations to justify the case it was working on.
AI is a novelty and should NOT be in charge of any decision making or be admissible as evidence in any way.
This is the same reason police dogs shouldn’t be used.
Yep. Dogs have been used to manufacture probably cause for decades.
Only once have they ever been scientifically tested, and they failed… and shockingly, cops refused to participate in any future testings.
As the owner of a German shepherd who just REALLY wants to make friends and play with everyone she meets…it’s depressing how many people see a big cop dog and immediately walk away when she barks.
She wants to chase birds and lick your face to show affection, chasing and hurting people is taught just like racism in humans.
Why is she barking? Correct that behaviour and I bet 80% of people would stop treating you and your dog like a threat. If a dog barks at me, I leave. It tells me the owner hasn’t spent the time training them and that the dog doesn’t want me there.
Because she’s 6 months old and still learning to socialize, so people immediately turning and speeding away does not help. If people could suspend their judgement of someone as a threat long enough to recognize a puppy and let her say hello, then it’s completely fine but thank you for the training tips.
Once she realizes people don’t run away if she isn’t barking that should help. Good luck with your training.
I’ve been bit, my friends have been bit, and I’ve seen children get bit by dogs that fit the exact same description. I don’t trust any fucking dog. Keep it on leash and keep it away from me and my family. Thank you. - cat gang
I don’t like being licked.
Dog owner here. I don’t know if I buy the whole “don’t judge by breed” thing. Sure, training can become the dominant force, but dogs are literally wolves that were selectively bred based on temperament. And how would genes decide so much about a dog but not its temperament?
Anyway still sucks. I’d want to hang out with your dog. But I respect where people are coming from.
Also cool username. Although makes me think of some weird HGTTG marital arrangements.
Oh, they should, but similarly to “AI” as a tool, with the whole responsibility for the tool being on the person using it.
Similar to screwdrivers, pencils and guns.
Rescue dogs and bomb dogs are cool, traffic stop K-9 units are an affront to civil rights.
AI also recently decided a bag of chips that a black kid had was a gun, and summoned a horde of cops on him.
an accident I doubt AI would make with a white kid, because AI gets all sorts of inherit biases from the data its fed… and whats more biased in law inforcement than how black people are treated vs white people.
*inherent
Go Colorado Sun! Proud sponsor for many years!
Reading the article, I am very confused. It appears that they simply decided a random person was the culprit because she was recorded as driving through town during the time period of the package theft, and that’s all they had?
“Pick up the can citizen.”
Pigs are really bad at investigating
That’s what I gathered as well. They mentioned there was doorbell footage but refused to show it to her. I’m guessing they saw she was in town, saw a person that maybe partially could have resembled her maybe if you squinted on the doorbell footage, and said that was all the evidence they needed.
There is the weirdly pushy way the police officer tried to get her to confess that seems to imply that, too. They had a hunch, and hoped the person would be dumb enough to incriminate herself. It’s a real shame she only exonerated herself, I am sure they would have loved it if she had tracked down the real thief.
I think it’s a similar car to hers. She wasn’t in the area at all, and had proof of that.
And america used to make fun of china for its surveillance, but I guess if you can’t beat them, join them
I didn’t make fun of China for being a surveillance state. I was terrified for the citizens for China being a surveillance state. Same with the UK.
The republicans took every shitty thing they said they hated about other countries like Russia, China and even North Korea and made those things goals.
Issue is, critique of those regimes started to be worded “tactically”, to make it seem those problems are unique to those systems, or even silenced completely, and at worst just inventing nonexistent problems of theirs. In Hungary, we no longer hear about arrest quotas of the secret police since 2014, the issue of the Hungarian youth under the communist regime of not being able to wear Levi jeans and Adidas shoes are exaggerated to comical degrees, but now we also have urban legends that the Rákosi and Kádár regimes wanting to implement stuff that are out of current day culture war bullshit.
Colorado is famously liberal
If you lived there you’d know it’s optics. They’re libertarian (corporate tax haven) in Denver and Boulder and the rest of the state is red. There’s even sundown towns. You can smoke pot and marry your bro but you better both have beards and like fishing or else you’re getting fitted for the barbwire fence.
Sounds like Ohio with mountains and better PR
Wow. That is an amazing description. Yeah kind of. I never thought of that before. And Ohio DID just import a shit ton of tech companies too so it’s almost exactly like the Silicon exodus to Colorado ten years ago.
All those tech companies downsized or all together pulled out for some reason in the last year…
Did they? That’s strange considering how prez has let them off the leash with Ai regulation. In that case I’m curious if the data centers that are being built now will be the only ones.
Edit: Oh, you meant in CO. That’s news to me too
Deeply wrong
https://www.270towin.com/states/colorado
Perhaps not famously, but Blue in presidential races and overall in the house since 2008.
All the governors but two since 78
2024 is showing signs of slowing or gerrymandering attempts.
So it’s a purple state that has been shifting liberal. Which means…not famously liberal.
They’ll beat 'em too. Shoot 'em, whatever gets them excited
The root of the issue is allowing officer to lie in order to deprive people of thier rights.
He knew he had nothing, he was just trying to get a confession by saying it was a 100% lock. The cameras wouldn’t matter as much if lieing like that was illegal.
Should disabling these cameras be considered community defense? Discuss.
Yes, next question.
No.
😎
It should be considered a moral imperative.
🫳
🎤Casually asking just for general knowledge, but what would be the penalty if someone, say, accidentally destroyed one of these? What about 10?
In many instances, they are “rogue installations” aka trash left on the side of the road that no one owns now. Check with your municipality if they have an agreement for them. If they don’t, feel free to put them in the bin where they belong.
Someone who isn’t me is wondering if there is any sort of rapid glass etching compound that would help to decorate the lenses for them.
Seems like some kind of oily fog/spray could obscure things until someone took the time to physically clear it. More temporary, but perhaps easier to accomplish?
Edit: And this pisses me off that I have to think about such things.
A very salty spray would be effective. The spray itself would obscure the lens until it is cleaned and cleaning it would be a pain in the ass to do without damaging the lens.
I imagine a sufficiently strong acid could discolor it pretty quickly.
Yeah but I am guessing you can’t safely dispense it from a super soaker.
Vinegar might do the trick, and that’d safe in a super soaker. Make it salty for extra impact.
Time to get a high power laser pointer and start taking out these cameras
Just be veeeery careful about reflective surfaces so you don’t hurt other innocent people. Make sure you wear laser glasses that you bought from a real reputable place, Amazon and the likes are full to the brim with counterfeits that don’t protect you from anything.
Good looking out, laser glasses weren’t on my mind. I’ll be sure to get a pair when I get my laser
where can I find one of these? asking for a friend.
will a blueray from a burner work, or do I need the get a green laser capable of taking out a pilots vision for this?
If you search high power laser pointer a gaggle of online stores come up. I’m currently researching which is the most reputable. No idea if a bluray laser would work but that’s a great idea to look into
