Based and breadpilled
The Conquest of Bread was a breath of fresh air! I cannot believe I read a book about politics / economics that was actually optimistic and left me feeling good about fundamental human nature.
That’s what you got from it? To me it was hard to understand what they were getting at. Not even sure I finished it.
Yeah! Kropotkin argues a couple points:
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People are generally pretty good at self-organizing to solve problems, and have done so effectively in small communities for thousands of years.
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We have the technology* and productive power to ensure everyone enjoys a decent standard of living.
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Much of the scarcity we face today* is artificially created and entirely avoidable if we produce to meet needs instead of maximize profits.
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Things like laziness, corruption, and greed can largely be addressed by ensuring that all of a person’s needs are guaranteed to be met. Many people we currently* call “lazy” are either stuck in a hyper-specialized job that they can’t leave because they need to sell their labor to survive, or unmotivated because much of the wealth they produce is absorbed by someone else. And people tend to take more than they need more often than not because they are stuck competing with their fellow man for resources instead of cooperating for the common good.
He also does some back-of-the-napkin math to show that it takes less than a year’s worth of labor to produce everything a household needs for a year, and that the remaining labor time of that year should be open for people to cultivate different skills and pursue their passions. He argues that the distinction between what we today call blue-collar and white-collar work is unhealthy, and that everyone should do a bit of both.
His central thesis IMO seems to be that in the event of a socialist revolution, people shouldn’t be afraid to immediately start doing socialism. Take inventory of the food & start giving it to the hungry, figure out how many empty houses the community has & start housing the homeless, stop growing cash crops / producing niche luxury goods and start growing food / manufacturing necessities until everyone’s needs are met. He sternly warns against half-measures: maintaining the state’s use of violence or keeping track of some kind of currency or propping up political leaders are all things he claims will spell the end of a revolution before it gets off the ground.
I really loved the book. I feel like it provided a great example of what communism could (and IMO should) look like without all the baggage of so-called communist states like China and the USSR.
*= The book was written in the late 1800s. I think a lot of it holds up really well and some points seemed like they really called events that would happen in the next hundred years. That being said, it’s probably not as airtight today as it may have been in 1894.
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Tis a very wholesome meme, I hope this kind of cooperation is (or at least will be) possible
Edit: on a large scale, I mean
A fuckload of people are really going to have to make an effort to get their shit together for that to happen. As things stand the majority are dead weight.
I think at this point, we are just flat out overpopulated. There are simply too many people competing for resources and a significant number of them just merely exist without contributing a whole lot back to society.
Yea, it’s really hard to get my head around any kind of communist type of ideals when I know I’d be doing 3x the work of pretty much everyone around me for the same outcome as them. Not that capitalism is much better but at least with that I get SOMETHING more to show for my efforts
That’s not really true.
Right now under the capitalist systems there are countless jobs that are detrimental to the world we live in, or don’t actually produce anything of tangible value.
We would be a lot better off if a lot of people just didn’t do their “jobs”.
We don’t need a hundred types of sugar water, Or McDonald’s plastic toys. Landlords, bankers, stock brokers, financial planners, most lawyers are all useless.
Overpopulation is also a Malthusian myth. It isn’t that we have too many people. Under capitalism resources are not distributed well. It doesn’t make sense that most of us are working in a system that expects infinite growth with the finite resources our world is limited to. All in order to make a handful of people increasingly wealthy while the rest of us increasingly can’t afford to live a basic, simple life.
We can and must work toward building a new system (spoiler: it’s called Anarchism) while dismantling the old, inefficient, destructive system we are currently forced to try to survive in.
Which part of what I said is not true? My point was most people are fucking lazy and will do everything they can to leave shit to be done by others. I’m always the one at my job cleaning up after other people’s fuckups and the one people go to for answers because I actually made the effort to learn everything. Under capitalism this is noticed by my superiors and I’m top of the list any time a promotion becomes available and I have an in if I’m trying to get hired at a different company and people I know have went there resulting in more pay for me than my coworkers who don’t make an effort in their work. Under a system where everyone is just given what they need I would be getting the exact same life as people who are doing far less than me.
Also how can you say overpopulation is a myth and simultaneously say there are finite resources in our world? Finite means we will run out.
My thoughts about this
Anarcho-communism (and similar ideologies) isn’t really about everyone being equal, that’s a silly goal that would take enforcement and calculations, it’s not practical. Instead, anarcho-communism is a different way of living based on cooperation rather than exploitation and doing what is needed for people rather than what a few rich owners want.
You and a “lazy” person won’t necessarily have the same outcome. A person unwilling to even pick up after themselves or contribute would still be guaranteed housing, food, and health care, but that’s about it. You on the other hand could work to have a nicer place or acquire things, so long as you aren’t getting them exploiting others or common resources. If you build a nice chair the anarcho-fuzz isn’t gonna come and take it to split it amongst the community.
The thinking around “laziness” needs to change. A person unwilling to do even the absolute minimum might be called lazy, but A person unwilling to trade their time for money isn’t a bad thing. It’s not the “lazy” people that wipe out species, start wars, and cause climate change.
Let’s also not forget that a lot of those “lazy” people are actually struggling with illness, insecurity, lack of critical resources, discrimination, burnout from “the grind”, or just plain don’t see the point in contributing much to a system that never seems to contribute anything back. Guaranteed housing, food, and healthcare would fix a lot of the problems that cause “laziness”.
A person unwilling to even pick up after themselves or contribute would still be guaranteed housing, food, and health care, but that’s about it.
And who is having to work extra to pick up their slack? That housing, food, and healthcare all require labor from others.
