I have an image in my head of children of very wealthy families having the means to pursue their own creative potential, and just not.
One could argue that we are predisposed to being ‘happy’ when we’re challenged, and if we have those means provided to us our mental wellbeing will suffer.
I see a similar argument from conservative relatives sometimes too. That work is like forced purpose for the nations layabouts. I don’t know how common that is - some people will just do nothing I guess, but I think most people have some kind of hobby or interest they’d pursue if they had the time/means. Maybe I’m biased. Most of the folks in my family make and fix things. When they retire, they step up how much they fix/make. I’ve heard a couple of them say they don’t know how they got anything done when they were working all day. Years ago now, when my job had no work for me for a few weeks, I stepped up my oil painting to around eight hours a day. Even now, whenever I get downtime I try to put it to use (my post history is full of those projects). Retired folks are often much more involved in local government, charities, and nonprofits, not because older people are inherently better but because they have the time, and they don’t have to focus just on doing profitable things anymore.
I think I might agree a bit on where our individual purpose comes from? And this is wild speculation on my part, just something I’ve noticed as I try to understand what motivates people who seem to work much differently than I do. It feels like the default around here is to aspire to owning stuff, boats and cars and luxury toys. It seems like the folks who put their ambitions towards charities, helping kids, conserving land, etc, often had something in their life that snagged them and made them care about stuff outside that default. Like, someone makes a ton of money playing sports but uses it to fund youth programs - that person got caught by something outside that default, they found a purpose. Their teammate who just buys a mansion, maybe they never did. I don’t know if that makes sense.
I hear you, and thanks for the well thought out articulated response!
Personally, I don’t have any hobbies that are easy to do day to day. Apart from maybe playing computer games but I really don’t consider this good for my wellbeing like other hobbies are.
My less day to day hobbies are sports that I need to take a trip to be able to do, I’m not so sure how an expensive trip would fit in to a world where I don’t work to earn the money to go on that trip.
The work fills the time between trips, and also pays for the trips. This makes it hard to untangle those in my head.
That’s really interesting to me - Can I ask if you enjoy the work? Or if it gives you a sense of purpose or a sense of being part of something bigger?
Personally, I work at a job I don’t really enjoy but which I’m good at, and which gives me enough time to work on the stuff I care about (from creative projects to fixing furniture and computers to give away). My hobbies are cheap but I’m saving to try and conserve land, and I suppose even if most of my money wasn’t earmarked for that, I’d still work the job because we need health insurance and money to survive emergencies (although I think I’d do more donations per year rather than saving it for one big project).
I derive most of my sense of purpose from the projects, from helping out in my community, and from the conservation stuff. If the need for work vanished somehow, I’d still work on all that other stuff, I think I’d either focus on it more or I’d take on additional volunteer tasks.
As for enjoying the work. I enjoy the challenge of it and get a good buzz when I feel I’ve done something well.
I don’t however feel like the things I do contribute positively to my community.
Where I live, I have conflicting feelings about the community stuff. It seems there are very few others who wish to help their community, which in turn makes me less motivated to do so. I’ve been in the position where some help, or even basic empathy, from those around me would have been greatly appreciated, but it was just not there.
Purpose wise, I get most of this from providing good experiences for my family, but some months just making sure the house is warm and there’s food on the table is all I can manage. (I don’t want that to sound like I’m asking for pity/charity there. It’s just the reality of the current economic trend.)
If the need for work vanished, I like to think I’d pick up other hobbies but I only have my teenage self to compare against in terms of existing without a job - and that guy wasn’t exactly making the best decisions for his mental wellbeing and hobbies.
Do you think there are enough people with a passion for undesirable things like picking up garbage or building roads to support society without some form of external motivation?
I’m not against currency existing, or people getting paid for their labor. I am against things like medical care being locked away behind a paywall, and the threat of things like homelessness, deprivation of medical care, crushing debt, starvation/freezing, being used to crudgel people into working those unpleasant jobs (often more than one, often with no benefits).
I think in a better society people will still want more than basic survival, and if society needs someone to do unpleasant tasks, it’ll still need to make doing those tasks worthwhile.
And to tie it back to the comment I was replying to, I’m skeptical that those unpleasant jobs are enriching the lives of the people doing them, or providing challenges that make them happy when they wouldn’t have otherwise been.
There will always be challenges, even if your needs are taken care of. It is then up to you to overcome your own limits and grow, and figure out what you want to do with your life.
If all of my needs were met with no question? I would absolutely be volunteering at food kitchens and maker labs, because that’s fun and fulfilling.
I’m not saying this is the case but I am curious.
I have an image in my head of children of very wealthy families having the means to pursue their own creative potential, and just not.
One could argue that we are predisposed to being ‘happy’ when we’re challenged, and if we have those means provided to us our mental wellbeing will suffer.
Or maybe I’ve just misunderstood.
For sure challenges are a good thing, but freedom is to choose your own challenges and not be forced to do something you do not want to do to survive.
I see a similar argument from conservative relatives sometimes too. That work is like forced purpose for the nations layabouts. I don’t know how common that is - some people will just do nothing I guess, but I think most people have some kind of hobby or interest they’d pursue if they had the time/means. Maybe I’m biased. Most of the folks in my family make and fix things. When they retire, they step up how much they fix/make. I’ve heard a couple of them say they don’t know how they got anything done when they were working all day. Years ago now, when my job had no work for me for a few weeks, I stepped up my oil painting to around eight hours a day. Even now, whenever I get downtime I try to put it to use (my post history is full of those projects). Retired folks are often much more involved in local government, charities, and nonprofits, not because older people are inherently better but because they have the time, and they don’t have to focus just on doing profitable things anymore.
I think I might agree a bit on where our individual purpose comes from? And this is wild speculation on my part, just something I’ve noticed as I try to understand what motivates people who seem to work much differently than I do. It feels like the default around here is to aspire to owning stuff, boats and cars and luxury toys. It seems like the folks who put their ambitions towards charities, helping kids, conserving land, etc, often had something in their life that snagged them and made them care about stuff outside that default. Like, someone makes a ton of money playing sports but uses it to fund youth programs - that person got caught by something outside that default, they found a purpose. Their teammate who just buys a mansion, maybe they never did. I don’t know if that makes sense.
I hear you, and thanks for the well thought out articulated response!
Personally, I don’t have any hobbies that are easy to do day to day. Apart from maybe playing computer games but I really don’t consider this good for my wellbeing like other hobbies are.
My less day to day hobbies are sports that I need to take a trip to be able to do, I’m not so sure how an expensive trip would fit in to a world where I don’t work to earn the money to go on that trip.
The work fills the time between trips, and also pays for the trips. This makes it hard to untangle those in my head.
That’s really interesting to me - Can I ask if you enjoy the work? Or if it gives you a sense of purpose or a sense of being part of something bigger?
Personally, I work at a job I don’t really enjoy but which I’m good at, and which gives me enough time to work on the stuff I care about (from creative projects to fixing furniture and computers to give away). My hobbies are cheap but I’m saving to try and conserve land, and I suppose even if most of my money wasn’t earmarked for that, I’d still work the job because we need health insurance and money to survive emergencies (although I think I’d do more donations per year rather than saving it for one big project).
I derive most of my sense of purpose from the projects, from helping out in my community, and from the conservation stuff. If the need for work vanished somehow, I’d still work on all that other stuff, I think I’d either focus on it more or I’d take on additional volunteer tasks.
As for enjoying the work. I enjoy the challenge of it and get a good buzz when I feel I’ve done something well.
I don’t however feel like the things I do contribute positively to my community.
Where I live, I have conflicting feelings about the community stuff. It seems there are very few others who wish to help their community, which in turn makes me less motivated to do so. I’ve been in the position where some help, or even basic empathy, from those around me would have been greatly appreciated, but it was just not there.
Purpose wise, I get most of this from providing good experiences for my family, but some months just making sure the house is warm and there’s food on the table is all I can manage. (I don’t want that to sound like I’m asking for pity/charity there. It’s just the reality of the current economic trend.)
If the need for work vanished, I like to think I’d pick up other hobbies but I only have my teenage self to compare against in terms of existing without a job - and that guy wasn’t exactly making the best decisions for his mental wellbeing and hobbies.
Do you think there are enough people with a passion for undesirable things like picking up garbage or building roads to support society without some form of external motivation?
I’m not against currency existing, or people getting paid for their labor. I am against things like medical care being locked away behind a paywall, and the threat of things like homelessness, deprivation of medical care, crushing debt, starvation/freezing, being used to crudgel people into working those unpleasant jobs (often more than one, often with no benefits).
I think in a better society people will still want more than basic survival, and if society needs someone to do unpleasant tasks, it’ll still need to make doing those tasks worthwhile.
And to tie it back to the comment I was replying to, I’m skeptical that those unpleasant jobs are enriching the lives of the people doing them, or providing challenges that make them happy when they wouldn’t have otherwise been.
There will always be challenges, even if your needs are taken care of. It is then up to you to overcome your own limits and grow, and figure out what you want to do with your life.
If all of my needs were met with no question? I would absolutely be volunteering at food kitchens and maker labs, because that’s fun and fulfilling.