Context is key I may have done 12 years of theological studies but I’ll be using AI to summarize this
John 8:58:
This verse is found in the Gospel of John, where Jesus makes the statement “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
Moses and Exodus 3:14:
In the Old Testament, God revealed Himself to Moses in a burning bush, declaring, “I AM THAT I AM.” This name, often translated as “I am who I am” or “I will be who I will be,” is a declaration of God’s eternal and self-existent nature, says the Bible Gateway.
Jesus’s Claim:
By saying “before Abraham was, I AM,” Jesus is claiming to be the same eternal, self-existent God who revealed Himself to Moses.
Context:
The statement is made in the context of a discussion with Jewish leaders who were disputing his authority.
Implications:
This verse is a central pillar of Christian theology, affirming Jesus’s divinity and eternal nature.
The Jews’ Reaction:
The people who heard Jesus make this claim were shocked and disturbed, understanding that it was a direct challenge to their understanding of God’s identity.
Thanks for your insight, I will study knto that topic deeper. I duckduckgoed whether Jesus was a prophet and that passage was what I found. I think the main argument for prophecy was that he was making grandeous statements about the future that were fulfilled, thus he fits the definition. But I’m just a casual reader and could be wrong.
I think in the context of this thread it’s amazing we could come up with two differing views so quickly.
See my reply to ochi in the other thread. Note I was raised Orthodox and from what I understand, reformist Christian sects do not place as much emphasis on the Trinity
The whole point of the holy Trinity is that Jesus is God not separate
My personal head Cannon is that God is nth dimensional programmer /scientist and our universe is equivalent to a simulation running on his computer. He built this place. Gave the people some rolls and was flabbergasted that they continually fucked it up and didn’t listen to the rules. So then he basically uploads himself to The matrix lives for 30 years experiences humanity and realizes that we are fundamentally fucked and forgives us after merging that slice of his consciousness back into the main consciousness.
Old English Crīst, from Latin Christus, from Greek Khristos, noun use of an adjective meaning ‘anointed’, from khriein ‘anoint’, translating Hebrew māšīaḥ ‘Messiah’
I would argue that Jesus, as Christ/Messiah is also a priest and prophet, thus fulfilling all of the various other prophecies about Him. He is these things and more: God’s decisive revelation of Himself to humanity, as well as one who redefines what humanity fundamentally is.
The reason why Christians have a tense relationship with the other “Abrahamic faiths” has to do with the understanding that Jesus is God. To deny Jesus’ divinity, from a Christian standpoint, is to define God apart from Jesus which is not consistent with Christian belief. The other problem comes from the idea (more or less later introduced into Christianity) that anyone who doesn’t believe in Jesus goes to Hell. This idea, so deeply held by many many Christians, actually misses what the gospel is all about: the minute Jesus forgives His murderers, He effectively declares that there’s no sin beyond His ability to forgive. Which means that all of humanity is forgiven, full stop.
Eastern (Orthodox) Christianity has a very interesting and different view: Hell and Heaven are the same place, just experienced differently—“Heaven” for those who love God on His terms, “Hell” for those who demand God behave on their terms. The basic idea there is that, in the end, most people will come face to face with Jesus and go “oh, it’s you! Cool!” and experience Heaven. But there are those who will see Him and still refuse (at least for a time—I believe that the scriptures are pretty clear that God is merciful and patient and that, given enough time, everyone winds up in “Heaven”).
To be a bit pedantic but Christians don’t believe Jesus was a prophet.
Matthew 21:11
And the crowds replied, “This is Jesus the prophet, from Nazareth in Galilee.”
Context is key I may have done 12 years of theological studies but I’ll be using AI to summarize this
John 8:58: This verse is found in the Gospel of John, where Jesus makes the statement “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” Moses and Exodus 3:14: In the Old Testament, God revealed Himself to Moses in a burning bush, declaring, “I AM THAT I AM.” This name, often translated as “I am who I am” or “I will be who I will be,” is a declaration of God’s eternal and self-existent nature, says the Bible Gateway. Jesus’s Claim: By saying “before Abraham was, I AM,” Jesus is claiming to be the same eternal, self-existent God who revealed Himself to Moses. Context: The statement is made in the context of a discussion with Jewish leaders who were disputing his authority. Implications: This verse is a central pillar of Christian theology, affirming Jesus’s divinity and eternal nature. The Jews’ Reaction: The people who heard Jesus make this claim were shocked and disturbed, understanding that it was a direct challenge to their understanding of God’s identity.
This is what makes him not a prophet.
Thanks for your insight, I will study knto that topic deeper. I duckduckgoed whether Jesus was a prophet and that passage was what I found. I think the main argument for prophecy was that he was making grandeous statements about the future that were fulfilled, thus he fits the definition. But I’m just a casual reader and could be wrong.
I think in the context of this thread it’s amazing we could come up with two differing views so quickly.
See my reply to ochi in the other thread. Note I was raised Orthodox and from what I understand, reformist Christian sects do not place as much emphasis on the Trinity
Really? I’m no expert, but I wouldn’t think being the son of god excluded being a prophet.
The whole point of the holy Trinity is that Jesus is God not separate
My personal head Cannon is that God is nth dimensional programmer /scientist and our universe is equivalent to a simulation running on his computer. He built this place. Gave the people some rolls and was flabbergasted that they continually fucked it up and didn’t listen to the rules. So then he basically uploads himself to The matrix lives for 30 years experiences humanity and realizes that we are fundamentally fucked and forgives us after merging that slice of his consciousness back into the main consciousness.
Old English Crīst, from Latin Christus, from Greek Khristos, noun use of an adjective meaning ‘anointed’, from khriein ‘anoint’, translating Hebrew māšīaḥ ‘Messiah’
I would argue that Jesus, as Christ/Messiah is also a priest and prophet, thus fulfilling all of the various other prophecies about Him. He is these things and more: God’s decisive revelation of Himself to humanity, as well as one who redefines what humanity fundamentally is.
The reason why Christians have a tense relationship with the other “Abrahamic faiths” has to do with the understanding that Jesus is God. To deny Jesus’ divinity, from a Christian standpoint, is to define God apart from Jesus which is not consistent with Christian belief. The other problem comes from the idea (more or less later introduced into Christianity) that anyone who doesn’t believe in Jesus goes to Hell. This idea, so deeply held by many many Christians, actually misses what the gospel is all about: the minute Jesus forgives His murderers, He effectively declares that there’s no sin beyond His ability to forgive. Which means that all of humanity is forgiven, full stop.
Eastern (Orthodox) Christianity has a very interesting and different view: Hell and Heaven are the same place, just experienced differently—“Heaven” for those who love God on His terms, “Hell” for those who demand God behave on their terms. The basic idea there is that, in the end, most people will come face to face with Jesus and go “oh, it’s you! Cool!” and experience Heaven. But there are those who will see Him and still refuse (at least for a time—I believe that the scriptures are pretty clear that God is merciful and patient and that, given enough time, everyone winds up in “Heaven”).