- cross-posted to:
- memes@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- memes@lemmy.world
You must log in or register to comment.
Is the society not saying: “go to therapy” nowadays?
My understanding of this problem is that there’s still a very strong cultural impetus that males aren’t allowed to have/share their feelings. In a way, even “go to therapy” is dismissive, in that the ppl saying it (often those that care about them most) don’t want to be bothered to address their feelings, or the precursor(s) to the depression, directly. Acknowledgement is definitely a step in the right direction, but I think there’s a ways to go. Just my $0.02
ok i will rephrase to: is society not offering real solutions nowadays.
I mean, as a woman, i will probably never understand how it feels to never really/freely be able to share emotions and be vulnerable. I thought this whole problem is somehow getting better or is better nowadays and that society is moving forward, though. Also, if “go to therapy” is dismissive, then what is a better response, i wonder.
is society not offering real solutions nowadays
no, not really. I see a lot of people pretending there isn’t a problem, a lot of people blaming men for the problem, and some really dumb men blaming women for the problem. Mental health for men is still incredibly stigmatized.
Haha sorry in advance for a long response, I love psychology and am a strong male mental health advocate :) TL;DR: I don’t have the answers, its getting better societally but that doesn’t solve it at an individual level, I believe loneliness and being heard are major contributing factors.
I’m hard pressed to give you a good answer on that. I think it’s more socially acceptable for men to have feelings, but maybe it’s hard for the crop of men 30+ to understand that due to their upbringing, and seek help (it’s getting much better for Gen Z, I understand). So maybe the options are there, but the “man up” mindset persists?
There may also be an individual element to it - the willingness to learn about our own feelings after decades of “man up” can be perplexing at best (I’ve been blessed with some wonderful women in my life and it is still in my blindspot all the time). I understand there are also many women that expect their men to “man up”, not to say that’s the norm though.
I don’t have a good answer for you on the last point either. I think go to therapy is great, but i find that being male and our problems can be wildly isolating and lonely experiences - being told to go to therapy is kind of “take your feelings over there”. At the same time, until men are able to build healthier communication with their loved ones, I think it won’t be solved (which is where therapy does help).
I would also think that this “men-up”-mentality is a generational thing and eventually (hopefully) dies out soon (in men and women and anything inbetween). In order for that to happen it would probably help not to reproduce and repeat the belief that the mentality persists (for example by sharing memes that suggest otherwise…maybe i can help with that). You know… be the change you wanna see.
I guess there is also a nasty trend of going backwards and anti-DEI all over the world (in my understanding the E in DEI is suppose to also cover that whole male-mental-health inequality aspect) so that doesn’t help.
Regarding the response “go to therapy”: i was told the same thing several times and it sometimes felt like “i don’t want to listen to your problems anymore” or “go fix yourself, you’re not functioning like you’re supposed to” and that does hurt. As i grew older i realized that these responders usually mean well and probably were overwhelmed themselves or were simply unable to help or didn’t feel qualyfied enough to help. So the message they were unable to transport probably was something arround: “i care for your feelings and i am here for you but also i have limits to be respected and i want you to get the best help you need. Sadly i can not provide this, so i would suggest to seek help of a professional. I will help you as best as i can to make this happen”
Another aspect is (I’m not trying to derail now, or use whataoutism this is just sideaspect or orverlapping development) the somewhat common expectation that women are expected to do care work or emotional labour for free, which sometimes gets disappointed. And maybe there is a trend of women being less willing to do so nowadays. I don’t know If that makes sense and one would have to look at actual data on this but i don’t even know which field of study collects data on this topic.
any way it seems to be a somewhat complex topic but i stand with the believe that memes shape perception of the world and one can use that to also shape that stupid society for the better (i know i am heavily overestimating the power of memes but one can hope and dream :))
I’m sorry I didn’t respond sooner, I just wanted to give this the time it deserved :)
I agree the man-up mentality needs to die, or at least be dialed back. It’s not inherently bad, tough love is a thing, but our society has taken manning up to an untenable extreme. For the record, I think the meme did an excellent job of putting a truthful light on the current reality - it definitely got us talking!
I agree about DEI, and love your comment about equality. Ppl often forget that equality means for everyone, and I think men are villainized as a general punching bag (punching up?). In this respect, I think men maybe pay a price that is overlooked for the more tangible equity issues (e.g. pay and service access for minorities)? But I’m cautious to bang that drum too hard haha just thinking it through.
I see what you’re digging at about therapy, and it’s possibly a perception issue on my end. It’s hard to tell someone they need therapy at any time, and my sensitivities may just be coming into play there. Therapy can be incredibly helpful.
Women absolutely get saddled with unfair emotional labour. I think it’s a bit of a downstream effect of unhealthy male emotions, in that men are taught to clam up and hide from feelings for decades, then get into relationships with women who just want the best for their partners. Men finally have a safe place for the first time in their lives, and BOOM all of it comes out with no skill at managing it haha. I’m not excusing this behavior, it can lead to some bad outcomes. I think there’s a balance - ppl in relationships need to do their fair share or emotional labour (relationships aren’t always 50/50, sometimes they’re 90/10), and men haven’t been taught to do their half. But at some point, they also need to take accountability and learn to do their half, dang it (see tough love lol).
All in all, I agree this is a stupidly complex topic, and I agree we proooobably won’t fix mens’ relationships with the world and themselves in this conversation, but we can try! That said, I’d be very happy if we could find a way to meme our way to a better place for everyone :) thank you for digging into it with me!
thank you too, for your thoughts and for beeing respectful.
Absolutely! 😊
It isn’t generational. My great grandfather was told to man up on his way to Guadalcanal, my grandfather was told to “man up” on his way to Korea, my uncle was told to man up on his way to Vietnam, and my cousin was told to man up on his way to Iraq.
My great grandfather was told to man up on the farm. My grandfather was told to man up at his job at the factory. My uncle told to man up at his job in the machine shop. I was told to man up at my job in the hangar. The crops needed harvesting, these TVs need to get made, these engines need to get built, these planes need to be back in the air. Physically demanding work in uncomfortable conditions often around unhealthy substances.
The uncomfortable truth is, society depends utterly and completely on men manning up. Putting the wants, needs and demands of others above their own safety and comfort. Particularly as basically all infrastructure jobs are done by men, there aren’t many female coal miners, oil drillers, construction workers, powerplant operators, linemen, millbillies, electricians, dockworkers, sailors, truckers, rail engineers, pilots, mechanics etc. There is no room on this earth for a man to squeal about breaking a nail or getting metal splinters in his eyes. Everyone everywhere will always demand that men man up. After all, nobody else is going to.
Have you tried bitching him out about “emotional labor?” Or actively pestering him to talk about his feelings because YOU’RE feeling insecure about something…only to use his response as gossip fodder or better yet ammunition in an argument later on? NO NO! Better! Sever any relationship or friendship with him instant he genuinely decides to confide in you, throwing into sharp relief the callous disregard you actually hold him in by kicking him while he’s down. These’ll have a fantastic impact on both his mental health and his overall attitudes to women as a political cohort.
The construction worker who answers “How are ya?” with “Living the dream, one nightmare at a time” is willing and able to express his feelings. His job is difficult, dangerous and painful, the pay is stagnant and prices of literally everything are only increasing, one mistake with a circular saw and he’ll never work again, his boss is a total waste of cunt, his customers are shithead Karens and his coworkers are all cooking in the same crucible. His father and grandfather supported families single-handedly doing this very job, meanwhile he’s not making ends meet as a bachelor. And you’re going to flippantly tell him to go to therapy. As if it’s his feelings that are the actual problem here. His feelings are perfectly calibrated and functioning normally. The fact that you are at a loss to say or do anything that is actually helpful is more of a reflection on you.
Ok…projecting a lot of stuff here. I was just asking if it is still that bad nowadays and how to respond better out of interest
Heh, seems like you hit a nerve with that poster.
To answer your question - IMO it’s still that bad, but I’m not sure what the right way to respond is, either.
well that is sad to hear
Perhaps I am.
It is indeed still that bad nowadays and is only getting worse. Women and men hate each other nowadays, because we’re completely fucking awful to each other.
The way you respond better, is to either actually be a supportive friend, or leave him alone.
American society says it a lot, the rest of us not so much.
To go to therapy, you have to believe in therapy. Males generally prefer to solve their own problems
Or not solve them and just suffer.
I feel like “it is what it is” can go a long way, lol.
That sounds about right…
Male depression being noted, anywhere? YAY!
