The monument in question was erected in 1908 by the United Daughters of the Confederacy, a group which exists to this day and remains inextricably linked to the Ku Klux Klan. Let those traitors pay to store their garbage if they want to.
Put them in a huge warehouse for academics to study or something.
We don’t need to keep these statues to understand their racist purpose, nor to document their removal for the historical record.
im actually in favor of charging them for this, and using the most overpriced government contractor you can find, with some absurd conditions about how visible they can be from outside (not at all) etc. maybe add an expensive certification. if their heritage is really that expensive, they can pay out the ass for it.
or, gouge them just the same, and give all the money to the SPLC or something.
I’m aware they aren’t Confederate era. I still believe them to be historically significant due to the outrage they’ve caused. I think it’d still be worth putting them all together in a single warehouse because, at the very least, people would be able to get a true sense of the scope of the problem.
Which would have more impact, a statue or two with a description saying that hundreds of such statues existed, or a balcony overlooking said hundreds of statues?
Personally, I’d find the latter way more impactful. It’s hard to imagine just how many statues are in “hundreds of statues” (heck, some people literally can’t visualize things in their heads); seeing them altogether would probably be mind boggling.
Meh, I don’t agree with them, but I understand why they feel strongly about it. The statues were an attempt to whitewash the civil war; of course people, especially non-white Americans, are going to feel very strongly about it.
I guess the way I see it though, is that the statues are technically part of America’s civil war history. No, they weren’t put up during the Confederacy, but they were intentionally built to affect the way people saw the civil war. Afaik that kinda technically makes them a part of civil war history.
Does that mean they’re worth preserving?
Tbh, I don’t really know, I’m not a historian so I ultimately don’t know how useful they’d be for studying and teaching about the civil war and reconstruction era. I’m concerned about losing parts of human history, but if expert historians believe the statues wouldn’t have any use for research or education, then I guess there’s not really any reason to not crush or melt them down.
Another side of it is that it’s a lot harder to downplay their significance or claim them as hoaxes when the original article still exists. That doesn’t mean people won’t try to do it anyway (I mean, Holocaust denialism seems in vogue among the far right wing right now), but it makes it easier to rub their faces in their stupidity when you can point to a physical mass of statues as opposed to a photo gallery or a plaque (I can already imagine people trying to claim that the pictures were AI generated or that the media was making a bigger deal about it than it actually is).
I’ve also already seen some people who seem to think that if the statues are removed, then the problem magically disappears and America isn’t racist anymore. That’s gross and makes me uncomfortable. America has a very racist, bigoted history. Don’t try to whitewash American history like that.
I’d be very curious to see where you read/heard “If the statues are removed then the problem magically disappears and America is not racist anymore.” Honestly, I have generally only ever heard that argument as a theoretical position proposed by people against removing the statues. They think that’s why people want them gone, that they believe it “magically solves our social issues.” It’s meant to be an intellectually dishonest accusation.
I don’t think I’ve seen anyone explicitly state it, however I remember seeing a handful of people on Reddit who’s comments seemed to imply that view point several years ago when people first started talking about removing them. I could have been misinterpreting what they were saying, but that was the impression I got and it grossed me out.
I think there are many great museums for them to give historical context/discuss the vile history of post-reconstruction glorification of the civil war.
We don’t need all of them but to destroy them all I think is a backwards decision. They are unique works that should be studied and discussed so we remember to ask the hard questions and look at our history without rose tinted glasses. Racism is still alive and well and we need to see the cultural flashpoints and contributions throughout our history that have contributed.
Beauregard for instance is a fascinating figure. After the war he wrote and spoke extensively about how wrong he was to fight for the confederacy and openly said it was about slavery and everyone else is full of shit. He even advocated for black Americans’ right to vote after the war. Yet a statue of him in his confederate uniform was erected anyway against his wishes. This is worthy of discussion.
Don’t get me wrong - he was a confederate general and nothing will wipe that stain away. But people are complicated and can grow. It shouldn’t be “confederate pride,” we should be going “why did they choose him”? There’s a lot to unpack.
Let’s go bulldoze former nazi concentration camps. We have plenty of photos and videos right?
Those concentration camps weren’t built 43 years after the war by the descendants of Nazis to continue intimidating Jewish people, now were they? Do you see me claiming we should destroy civil war forts? No. You’re just trying to shift the discussion because your original point was weak enough to be countered by simply reminding you that “cameras exist.”
Now, I’m not going to continue indulging you by defending myself from claims I never made in the first place. We’re done here.
History isn’t pretty. We don’t just keep things we like. I think confederate statues belong out of the public sphere 100% but museums are totally appropriate.
This is an argument against having any real objects besides photos/videos in museums. Should we remove all nazi weapons? SS uniforms? Warplanes that we’ve preserved?
What about all the posters and various bigoted media produced by all countries during the war? All these and more are housed at the national WWII museum in the US.
The monument in question was erected in 1908 by the United Daughters of the Confederacy, a group which exists to this day and remains inextricably linked to the Ku Klux Klan. Let those traitors pay to store their garbage if they want to.
We don’t need to keep these statues to understand their racist purpose, nor to document their removal for the historical record.
im actually in favor of charging them for this, and using the most overpriced government contractor you can find, with some absurd conditions about how visible they can be from outside (not at all) etc. maybe add an expensive certification. if their heritage is really that expensive, they can pay out the ass for it.
or, gouge them just the same, and give all the money to the SPLC or something.
I’m aware they aren’t Confederate era. I still believe them to be historically significant due to the outrage they’ve caused. I think it’d still be worth putting them all together in a single warehouse because, at the very least, people would be able to get a true sense of the scope of the problem.
Which would have more impact, a statue or two with a description saying that hundreds of such statues existed, or a balcony overlooking said hundreds of statues?
Personally, I’d find the latter way more impactful. It’s hard to imagine just how many statues are in “hundreds of statues” (heck, some people literally can’t visualize things in their heads); seeing them altogether would probably be mind boggling.
He’s dogmatic about this and truly has zero cool don’t bother
Meh, I don’t agree with them, but I understand why they feel strongly about it. The statues were an attempt to whitewash the civil war; of course people, especially non-white Americans, are going to feel very strongly about it.
I guess the way I see it though, is that the statues are technically part of America’s civil war history. No, they weren’t put up during the Confederacy, but they were intentionally built to affect the way people saw the civil war. Afaik that kinda technically makes them a part of civil war history.
Does that mean they’re worth preserving?
Tbh, I don’t really know, I’m not a historian so I ultimately don’t know how useful they’d be for studying and teaching about the civil war and reconstruction era. I’m concerned about losing parts of human history, but if expert historians believe the statues wouldn’t have any use for research or education, then I guess there’s not really any reason to not crush or melt them down.
Another side of it is that it’s a lot harder to downplay their significance or claim them as hoaxes when the original article still exists. That doesn’t mean people won’t try to do it anyway (I mean, Holocaust denialism seems in vogue among the far right wing right now), but it makes it easier to rub their faces in their stupidity when you can point to a physical mass of statues as opposed to a photo gallery or a plaque (I can already imagine people trying to claim that the pictures were AI generated or that the media was making a bigger deal about it than it actually is).
I’ve also already seen some people who seem to think that if the statues are removed, then the problem magically disappears and America isn’t racist anymore. That’s gross and makes me uncomfortable. America has a very racist, bigoted history. Don’t try to whitewash American history like that.
I’d be very curious to see where you read/heard “If the statues are removed then the problem magically disappears and America is not racist anymore.” Honestly, I have generally only ever heard that argument as a theoretical position proposed by people against removing the statues. They think that’s why people want them gone, that they believe it “magically solves our social issues.” It’s meant to be an intellectually dishonest accusation.
I don’t think I’ve seen anyone explicitly state it, however I remember seeing a handful of people on Reddit who’s comments seemed to imply that view point several years ago when people first started talking about removing them. I could have been misinterpreting what they were saying, but that was the impression I got and it grossed me out.
Honestly I think you’re way overestimating how simplistic in their logic people who are against these statues generally are.
I think there are many great museums for them to give historical context/discuss the vile history of post-reconstruction glorification of the civil war.
We don’t need all of them but to destroy them all I think is a backwards decision. They are unique works that should be studied and discussed so we remember to ask the hard questions and look at our history without rose tinted glasses. Racism is still alive and well and we need to see the cultural flashpoints and contributions throughout our history that have contributed.
Beauregard for instance is a fascinating figure. After the war he wrote and spoke extensively about how wrong he was to fight for the confederacy and openly said it was about slavery and everyone else is full of shit. He even advocated for black Americans’ right to vote after the war. Yet a statue of him in his confederate uniform was erected anyway against his wishes. This is worthy of discussion.
Don’t get me wrong - he was a confederate general and nothing will wipe that stain away. But people are complicated and can grow. It shouldn’t be “confederate pride,” we should be going “why did they choose him”? There’s a lot to unpack.
Take a damn picture before you melt 'em down if you want. Traitors don’t deserve statues, and racists don’t get to keep them.
Let’s go bulldoze former nazi concentration camps. We have plenty of photos and videos right?
Those concentration camps weren’t built 43 years after the war by the descendants of Nazis to continue intimidating Jewish people, now were they? Do you see me claiming we should destroy civil war forts? No. You’re just trying to shift the discussion because your original point was weak enough to be countered by simply reminding you that “cameras exist.”
Now, I’m not going to continue indulging you by defending myself from claims I never made in the first place. We’re done here.
History isn’t pretty. We don’t just keep things we like. I think confederate statues belong out of the public sphere 100% but museums are totally appropriate.
Yes we are done here.
How would statues enhance any of the discussions you suggest?
This is an argument against having any real objects besides photos/videos in museums. Should we remove all nazi weapons? SS uniforms? Warplanes that we’ve preserved?
What about all the posters and various bigoted media produced by all countries during the war? All these and more are housed at the national WWII museum in the US.