• 0 Posts
  • 43 Comments
Joined 29 days ago
cake
Cake day: July 26th, 2025

help-circle

  • I think you’re missing my point now. Maybe the headphone example is weak, but it illustrates the point. Abundance is not necessarily abundance of wealth. Im arguing that reducing general production and increasing wealth are compatible. Making the distribution of wealth depend on abundant production, independently of quality, only overworks people and pollute the world.

    Legitimizing degrowth exterminates those unable to afford resistance to oligarchy.

    This seems too general. Defending degrowth may do that if its done in the specific way you have described before, but not generally. Resistance to oligarchy and general improvements to quality of life could have degrowth as a consequence, not the other way around. What you seem to be criticizing is that “other way around” thesis.


  • By economic growth i mean more production. This production can be marketable but not represent an actual wealth gain. If i produce a shitty headphone that breaks in a week of use, the world would be better off without it, but it did contribute to the growth of the economy when i sold it to some unfortunate soul. In this sense, a reduction in production may not really represent a reduction in wealth globally. A better production can have a way smaller volume than the current global production while still giving us more actual wealth to live with. Thats why i say economic growth is not quality of life. Of course theres a correlation in the actual data today, but my point is that this correlation is not necessary, its an empirical correlation, not a logical one, and it is something that may change in the future.

    If we cant dissociate economic growth from well being, then i take your point and agree with it.

    Regarding UBI, if it is done in a way that emancipates people, instead of just enabling and maintaining conditions for enslaving people, great. And from my perspective this would probably also entail a spontaneous degrowth.

    I think our views are compatible. Im not defending a forced degrowth nor hope that people do it voluntarily out of nowhere. But political measures to redistribute wealth and improve living standards, like what you envision with UBI, could lead to a natural and widely accepted degrowth, which would be positive.


  • I think you have a point. Although i dont have the knowledge to see for sure that there really is a viable path alternative to economic degrowth.

    i agree that directly supporting degrowth would be unpopular, lead to conflict and maybe would benefit a movement towards genocide. Correct me if thats not what you meant.

    The crack i see in this argument is that it seems to assume that economic growth and quality of life are correlated and that people see it this way. A movement towards improving quality of life in general would entail, i assume, a reduction of our working hours, a reduction in industrial production (as we produce a lot of useless objects just as an excuse to redistribute means of survival without changing the dynamic of the economic system). So a move towards better quality of life would naturally lead to a healthy economic degrowth (in some areas) that could be well seen by people. Maybe im fantasizing too much, but i hope not.




  • I think thats not really a religious thought. Youre thinking and conjecturing things about the universe, and how life forms and matter all fit together in it. If you start worshiping this “greater energy” and declaring how things should be or should be done, then it would start to look more like a religion. Otherwise its just harmless conjecturing about nature.



  • These home chores are not that complex that I need remiders. But I do have a list of stuff to buy, like food and cleaning products, on a shared text file (a shared google keep note actually, forgive me for my sins), and every tuesday or so one of us goes to the market to get those (we alternate).

    Basically, whenever I have time to work on something, I try to do the most important and time sensitive things on my todo list. If I dont have enough time to do those, then I wont, and thats it, what can I do?







  • zeca@lemmy.mltoLemmy Shitpost@lemmy.worldLemmy be like
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    15
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    12 days ago

    Problems would exist in any system, but not the same problems. Each system has its set of problems and challenges. Just look at history, problems change. Of course you can find analogies between problems, but their nature changes with our systems. Hunger, child mortality, pollution, having no free time, war, censorship, mass surveilence,… these are not constant through history. They happen more or less depending on the social systems in place, which vary constantly.