I have recently become more aware of and generally interested in electronics and amateur radio, and it got me thinking. What advantage, if any, would there be to having amateur radio experience, over a simple disaster crank radio/flashlight, in the event of a major natural disaster or some other emergency that leads to a longer delay in power being restored? For the sake of argument, let’s assume you have a generator or battery bank to supply your own electricity.
Probably a lot. There’s was (is?) a long productive relationship between Red Cross disaster efforts and amateur radio.
Still is. My brother is a ham radio operator. When certain areas get hard hit, if normal communication towers go down, they will fly in ham radio operators .
He hasn’t been called yet (not sure if he’s on a list to be called) but it wouldn’t surprise me if he is.
And HAM operators near the area helps relaying information from people on the ground
Something that should maybe be pointed out about ham radio is that there’s local ham radio (VHF/UHF) and there’s long distance ham radio (HF). People keep mentioning that ham radio can reach long distances, even other continents, and that’s true but that’s the harder, more expensive HF side of ham radio.
When you get your first ham license, you are limited to VHF/UHF bands and a little slice of the 10 meter HF band that isn’t very useful. Even if it were useful, most radios are either VHF/UHF only ($100-300, $30 for a lower powered handheld radio), HF only ($500 and up), or all bands (well over $1000.)
It’s hard to talk about range because it always depends on location, but VHF/UHF has a range that should cover your town/city and maybe enough to reach the next town, maybe enough to reach outside the disaster zone, depending on the disaster. VHF/UHF only needs a simple, cheap antenna that you can stick to anything and it’ll just work, more or less.
HF generally requires big antennas that take a lot of tweaking and/or other expenses to work right.
Could you run one of these on a generator? Like a small single-family generator with wheels
Yeah, no problem. Most ham radios are set up to use 12 volts so they can be installed in a vehicle. They don’t need a lot of power. But if you’re using it at home with normal 120v power (from the power company or from a generator) you actually have to get a power supply to feed it 12 volts. This is a cheap one: https://www.amazon.com/Regulated-Converter-Interface-Amplifiers-TOPPOWER-PS1330A/dp/B0CZP5C2PY?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&gQT=1
You could also hook it up to a 12v battery and use the generator to charge the battery.
Funny you ask because I literally just got my ham license because of this.
Radio works without infrastructure. Okay there’s some ham stuff that is internet-connected et al but overall you are just spewing radio waves into the ether with a variety of simple encodings and someone else can pick them up. So powering a few radios off of a dinky solar panel and battery combo is no biggie, whereas powering cell towers, routing infrastructure, et al is a bunch of generators that need to be fueled and whatnot.
Like… you can hit the 20-meter-and-longer wavelengths with a radio and a random bit of wire and some ingenuity and get your signal all over the place. And the maximum power you are ever allowed is 1500 watts and most folks can make do with far less power than that.
Also, amateur radio has fun stuff to do other than mere EmComm needs. Part of why Twitter used to be handy in a pinch for lesser-disasters in days past was that it could be used for EmComm needs but also had other fun stuff to be done with it. Things that are “just” for EmComm infrastructure tend to get forgotten about and abandoned and rot away to nothingness.
A lot of areas in the US have ARES/RACES orgs to provide an already organized group of people… but some of the fun games that hams play like POTA/SOTA, Field Days, et al also serve to make it fun to have a portable setup.
POTA is fun. Everyone is so chill. I only get out a few times a year these days, but I love setting up in the woods. I should do it more.
So I’ve got a different perspective that might help. During the hurricane disaster this year in the mountains of NC there was a big hub bub about getting starlink and internet services deployed into the area. I couldn’t fathom it, like people’s houses are gone and are picking up debris to try and survive, we’re really prioritizing communication over survival?!?
Then I saw interview after interview that finally made it click. People are creatures of habit, disconnecting them completely throws them off. Countless stories of not even knowing what day it was, scared because they can’t contact family, just general chaos because the entire routine of day to day life is gone. Internet access/communication strangely helps everyone calm the fuck down.
You might be stressed in a disaster area, but being able to radio someone outside to just talk to for a while would probably be a blessing. Having the ability to reach out to loved ones of neighbors through a radio contact just to let them know everyone is alive would be stress relieving for everyone involved. I think now that it is important to have a connection-line out of the area not just for safety, but just general normality during a time nothing seems normal.
We are social creatures, communication is a need not a desire.
One of the reasons why ham radio has been around for so long (without losing -most- of its bandwidth) is that its proven to be so helpful in those scenarios. VHF bands are great for helping people locally, and one of the HF bands will usually be open to in-country and world-wide comms.
Another perk of hamming is getting to know locals, to prepare for emergencies (‘Field Days’ ), and to share ideas for gear, antennas and operations with a usually great gang of fellow hams.
You’ll find a lot of info about all sides of it at the ARRL site: http://arrl.org/
This is a nice article about recent amateur radio utilization during a hurricane: Through Hurricanes Helene and Milton, Amateur Radio Triumphs When All Else Fails.
Basically, it can be useful for relaying information for first responders, calling for help, and relaying communications between families and communities.
I don’t know about major coordination, but I keep a couple sets of walkies that use CB band channels around for just such a purpose. It’s comforting to have coms available that don’t rely on a central infrastructure.
That’s good. A big thing people forget though, is practice. If you’ve only ever used them a few times, it can be hard to remember the details of how they work or if they work, and what to expect from them when they’re working.
That’s what makes ham radio so great, you practice at least semi regularly, or as much as you want. Plus the distances you’re capable of are much larger, if that’s important to you. Sometimes local is more important.
I was able to communicate with some 170 miles away. This was using no infrastructure using only my wire antenna, a radio and a half dead regular 9v battery. I would say ham radio would come in handy if shit hits the fan.
I’m GMRS licensed, it’s like FRS (WalMart radios) with more power and additional channels. I don’t have my tech ham license but will probably get it. I want a GMRS repeater, there are cheap ones out of China that are within reach.
GMRS is good for local communication with your group, and if anyone is around they will certainly be monitoring those frequencies.
Honestly I think it depends. I’ve got my license and the only people I’ve really contacted have been old farts in the surrounding communities. Ham radio has a ton of potential but I think a limiting factor people aren’t thinking about is who is going to be on the other side that is actually capable of helping you.
That being said it’s an option you didn’t have before and the barrier to entry is pretty low in terms of effort and cost so I say give it a shot!
Pretty useful. I’ve got a bunch of handhelds, and if the cell towers are out, it would be nice to keep in touch with my wife if she goes out shopping (of course that would also require the stores to be open still). Keep in mind, at the power level you can transmit for just basic GMRS (50 watts max), you can only communicate a few miles in a suburban landscape. Also, both base stations have to be able to transmit at that power to have two way communication.
Easy: you can use your amateur radio to call someone in another town and ask them to bring you a bucket full of electricity.
Or to let people know where he is or that he needs medical supplies
Well, a ham radio transmitter will let you transmit. If you can reach someone else who has power and a ham radio rig, you can get a message to them
A disaster radio will receive. You can receive mass-broadcasted information.
For the vast majority of people out there, I doubt that either is all that critical for most scenarios in 2024.
Internet access basically replaces both of them.
Not to mention broadcast cell alert service, which is available in the US (though not, as I understand, globally).
Just about everyone has a cell phone that has both a radio receiver and transmitter and has global routing already in place, so all that’s necessary to provide communications to pretty much everyone in an area is to get cell coverage up, and provides on-demand information. Getting cell service functioning after a disaster is a priority, and there are trucks with generators and satellite uplinks that get deployed.
So if you’re using AM/FM radio or ham radio, it’s likely just going to be as a backup to that.
There are places where I’d want some kind of voice radio transmitter. If I lived somewhere very remote that didn’t have cell coverage or on a remote island, say, with only a small number of people, where getting cell coverage back up might not be as high a priority, then I think that it’d make a more-reasonable backup. But if you live near civilization, you probably already have stuff that in place that handles the job.
Anyone who has a car probably has a generator-backed AM/FM radio with a large, charged battery anyway, so getting another one is as a backup to that backup.
I’m not convinced on the cell phone thing. Every time there’s even a minor thing around where I am, like a dinky little power outage, everybody grabs their cellphone and my service goes to crap, so much so that when I’ve tried to work through a power outage with my phone, I’ve worked out of my wife’s car after having driven somewhere that does have power.
Also, a standard ham radio uses a lot less power than the entire chain of phone plus network equipment. So, sure, there’s cell tower trucks with generators but a ham rig needs a dinky little solar panel.
HAM radio will only get you so far as it depends on the other end also having power. A CB radio connected to your car would likely be of more use.
What are you talking about?
HAM radio operators can talk between continents.
CB has nowhere near enough power to do that.
They also have two vastly different usecases.
CB can be used as a dispatch system for cars and trucks, great for coordination of local vehicles.
HAM would be used for relaying data between physical sites, data about status of people, food, housing, water, power.
Both are important, but HAM is more important.
See my other comment, if the stated purpose is to help your community during a power outage or natural disaster, and you’re the only one in your community with power, it doesn’t do much good.
Calling Texas over HAM doesn’t help communicate and coordinate local efforts.
You can only communicate, locally, to other people who have power.
A CB radio lets you talk to anyone with a CB in their vehicle.
Umm… Where are you getting the idea that a CB can be powered by a vehicle, but a ham radio can’t?
OP is talking about batteries and generators meaning a fixed installation, not a mobile one.
You realize that if you call Texas you can also reach someone locally.
A lot of ham equipment can be run off of batteries, generators, solar power, vehicles, etc. for some hams, that’s even a big part of what interests them- going out into the woods or other remote areas to see who they can make contact with from there.
There are official policies in place for ham radio operators to work with local emergency services. ARES & RACES, for example. I know that my $20 baofeng can even be used directly on some emergency frequencies (depending on what sort of radio system they’re using)
As an example of how it might work
If cell and landline phones are inoperable, you might instead have volunteer ham operators posted at various places around the community- probably schools, government buildings, hospitals, recreation centers, etc. places where people might gather, where aide is being distributed, that might have backup generators, etc.
And you also have them or professional radio operators at police/fire/ambulance stations, 911 dispatch centers.
Someone having an emergency would let the local ham operator know and have them relay the info to the station or dispatch center so they could send help
Less efficient than just calling 911 of course, but better than nothing.
I work in a 911 dispatch center, we have a small room full of ham equipment that we can send out or use for these sorts of situations (luckily we’re not in an area prone to major natural disasters, so it’s rare that we ever have to use it if ever, but we’re prepared if it ever happens)
You can only reach someone locally if they also happen to have power, which as noted, is the problem scenario here.
If everyone around you is powerless, and you have power, it doesn’t really matter if you can transmit or not, nobody locally can hear you.
Did you miss where I addressed that by pointing out how generators, batteries, solar panels, and vehicle mounted radios exist?
CB radio is very low power and limited range. I had a CB in my Jeep for offroading. It wasn’t an ideal installation or an ideal antenna, but it was basically what most people driving a normal vehicle and not really serious about CB-ing would install.
It was good enough for the trail where I was 100 yards from friends but going down the interstate listening to trucks, I was basically limited to trucks I could see within a half mile or so.
With a 2 meter ham radio, the most common band that even beginners can use, and a lot simpler to install than CB, I can talk 20 miles fairly easily, twice that to reach some repeaters in the mountains.
If you are the one with power in your local community with power, then HAM is far, far, far more important than CB.
If your local community is out of power then you won’t really have many more people in the local area to communicate with, but with HAM you can reach across vast distances and manage way more resources between different local communities to deal with the crisis.
In a local community, radio comms is a nice to have, over vast distances it is critical.
When the problems are local, not over long distances, it’s more important having a local connection.
For example, during Hurricane Katrina, police band radio was being broadcast over the internet. The most heartbreaking call I personally heard from the stadium was an officer begging “Does anyone know how to deliver a baby?”
Getting that message out over long distances did not help the situation. Getting it out locally DID.
Just because a signal may have a long range, doesn’t mean it can’t be intercepted locally.
No, it would depend on someone else locally having a similar rig and there are far more people with CB radios than HAM radios.
https://rrra.org/post/2024/01/19/zero-retries-on-saving-amateur-radio/
The numbers of Amateur Radio Operators (not just in the US) are declining.
The influence of the ARRL will inevitably decline as a result of disgust at the Board of Directors infighting and dues (subscription) price increases.
The use of voice VHF / UHF repeaters are significantly reduced, year to year.
Emergency Communications has subtly become less of a justification for Amateur Radio. Simultaneously …
In the 2020s and beyond, First Responders have more, and more reliable communications options than ever before.
Communications infrastructure available to most individuals has become more concentrated and fragile.
COVID-19 and other factors have impacted many Amateur Radio club meetings and other reasons for Amateur Radio in-person events.
The potential audience of younger folks to become new Amateur Radio Operators just don’t find “talking to strangers” or “operating on shortwave” to be compelling reasons to become Amateur Radio Operators.
No, it would depend on someone else locally having a similar rig and there are far more people with CB radios than HAM radios.
That’s actually false. The supporting arguments you have provided are reasonable, but they ignore the fact that CBs have declined far faster than amateur radio.
But caling tevas gets you in touch with someone else who can arrange with the rest of the world to get things you need.
?
My brother is a ham radio operator. He’s in Minnesota and can talk to people in Texas.
He can also use satellite systems to bounce his signals further.
Yeah, but talking during a power outage or natural disaster means comnunicating locally.
If you’re trying to help the community, calling Texas isn’t much use. :(
So, yeah, you might have power, but if other local services don’t, you’ll be better able to communicate and organize via CB instead of HAM.
“Isn’t much use to call another state saying” "we have no food and no medical supplies " is of no use?
Correct, because in order to communicate that information locally, you need a local connection.
How do you communicate to the outside world where the survivors are to direct supplies in? How do you communicate locally to tell everyone where and when to expect said supplies?
🤦♂️ without communication lines to the outside there is no help coming. After reading your other comments I guess you figure with a cb radio the help will magically appear. I’m done. Have fun
Help won’t magically appear, it will appear thanks to the governmentally assigned radios doing the work, not amateur radio.
What needs to happen is local coordination. You need to communicate the information to the people around you and that aint happening if you’re the only one with a working radio.
Think of it like this:
Power goes out. I have solar power so my wifi and internet is still on, but nobody else has power.
I can email the governor asking for help, but I can’t email my neighbors. I can go on Nextdoor but it’s a fucking ghost town because nobody else has power.
I need a way to tell my neighborhood “Relax, help is coming, be at x place at y time for the supply trucks.”
The internet aint helping with that, and neither is HAM radio.
Are you under the impression that ham radio is not capable of being powered by a car?
Are you aware that virtually all ham radio equipment is portable, and designed to operate on 12v power sources?
It CAN be, but OP is talking about batteries and generators, meaning a fixed installation and not a mobile one.
I don’t think you actually understand what a ham radio is. Here’s a typical one:
A (legal) CB radio puts out 4 watts of RF energy in the 11-meter (26-27MHz) band. The legal limits on ham radio are 200 watts for HF, and 1500 watts for VHF/UHF.
That particular radio I linked puts out 50 watts in the 2M and 70CM (144MHz and 440MHz) bands, which are the most popular VHF and UHF bands in the US. It is designed to be installed in a vehicle, just like a CB. It has a detachable faceplate, allowing the main body to be located under a seat, or in the trunk, while the control panel can be placed near the driver’s seat. It’s also capable of being “installed” in a backpack, or an ammo can. It can be powered from a car battery, a cigarette lighter, a “jump pack”, a cordless drill battery, etc. Radios like that are commonly used for fixed or mobile stations, and is often used in “go” kits for setting up temporary fixed stations.
“HTs” are walkie-talkie sized radios, putting out 5 to 8 watts in the same bands. Baofeng UV5 and UV82 are some of the most popular models.
In addition, Hams can use the 6-Meter (54MHz), 10-Meter (29MHz), 20-Meter (14MHz), 40-Meter (7MHz), and 80-Meter (3.5Mhz) bands, with similar transceivers.
OP is talking about batteries and generators, meaning a fixed installation and not a mobile one.
Batteries are portable. That rig I mentioned above? I can run that all day on a couple drill batteries.
Generators are portable. That’s kinda their shtick: you can load them up and take power wherever you need it to be.
I do understand what a HAM radio is, but your scenario is not the one described by OP which is what I was addressing.
FFS, dude, stop trying to save face.
