reading this thread I’m glad I’m a removed in a relationship. my spouse is the best. i got so fucking lucky.
there’s a massive epidemic of loneliness out there. the loss of the free/cheap third spaces, lockdowns, and social media have made a fucking shitstorm. I’m scared for the generations below me just starting to enter the workforce. so many kids just unable to function properly.
i can’t solve it. but I’ve been putting my devices down more and (trying) to get out more. get more sunlight and fresh air, even if i just sit outside and watch the ducks. it’s hard out there. give yourself a break, okay? eat a snack and take a walk.
I’m 41 now but I haven’t gone on a date-date in 3 years or so. The TL;DR online dating is absolutely not worth participating in. Neither is speed dating, and people are isolating more and more.
I’m not wildly attractive but I’m not unattractive either. I’m probably like a 6 or a 7. I think I’m interesting and can hold a reasonable conversation. I’m intelligent. I’ve been told I’m funny (sometimes). I am a bit clumsy sometimes though. I’ve been in two long term (3+ years) relationships in my life but one of those relationships ended due to alcohol (we mutually sucked at the time), and the other due to financial reasons. Both hurt pretty deep when they ended and I didn’t date for a couple years after either of those.
In the time that I wasn’t feeling some form of loss from relationships that meant something, I tried online dating. I tried OkCupid, Bumble, PlentyOfFish, some bullshit regarding a bagel, Tinder, match.com, etc. I probably tried any of them that were active at the time. Not once did it ever amount to a relationship, in probably 15 years of using those sites off and on. I’ve unquestionably had more bad experiences than good. 9 out of 10 dates are bad. 1 ouf of 10 are ok. The worst time I recall was when a woman drugged me after our date. Another bad time I can recall, my date showed up on drugs or drunk or just incredibly stupid or something. She racked up a $110 bar tab during our 30 minute meet and greet and dipped out without saying anything at all or paying the bill. I was once catfished (is it catfishing when it’s just straight up someone else’s picture, or does it have to be your own picture doctored up / photoshopped to be considered catfishing?) by a co-worker on Bumble. I’ve been stood up for a first date at three or four times. I’ve been cancelled on an hour or two before a date at least 15 times.
The last time I had an online date, everything seemed to be going fine, we had a drink at the first bar, established that we seemingly got along, went on a walk around downtown, check out a show and then all of a sudden I’m being told about a sex kit that she purchased from a vending machine while I was in the bathroom that she wants to try out. I thought she was pretty cool before that. I wasn’t 100% sure if I was attracted to her, but I knew we at least got along on a person-to-person level. Telling me about a sex kit like that on the first date was a “eh, hard pass” for me. Women have either been fully uninterested in me; or so interested in me that I find it repulsive.
Speed dating is also, completely shit; and it’s a scam. The first time I tried speed dating, it was some website where you pick your city, your age range, and then what event you’d want to attend based on your other parameters. They take your money, and then send you an email a day before the event saying the event is cancelled because they couldn’t get enough people, but you cannot have a refund either. Then you attempt to re-schedule and it gets cancelled a second time for the same reason, then a third. Finally - you attend one of these things in person, end up getting “3 matches” emailed to you, and then you attempt to make contact and never hear from anyone ever again.
I felt like a complete horses’ ass when I attempted to do speed dating a second time 12 years later and had a very similar experience. This second time around though, I did a charge back on my credit card after the 3rd cancellation because “they couldn’t get enough people to attend.” Thanks for nothing Troy.
After soooo many bad experiences, and never having any success with what are the now conventional methods, and coming to the realization that I’m likely halfway dead now… I feel like I have a trauma response to the idea of dating at this point. I’d still like to be in a happy relationship, but even thinking about trying the methods I’ve tried in the past one more time causes me anxiety.
I’m introverted by nature, and as of 7 months ago, I live alone in a state, where I also work remotely from home and know no one. When I first got here, I tried a few events from Meetup.com thinking, “hey, maybe this is how 40-year-olds make friends,” but didn’t enjoy anything that I went to, other than the events where people sit in an audience quietly and watch someone else on stage. I found a really cool thing that I like attending where anyone is welcome to get up on stage and tell an 8 minute story about pretty much anything - fact or fiction. I really enjoy attending these, but it’s no way to meet people. The epidemic in question is absolutely not just about dating. It’s about making friends too.
I imagine I’m not alone in my experiences.
For me personally, it’s a combination of factors. A non zero number of my exes lost interest after a while and it damaged my ego pretty badly. Dating Apps are a string of getting ghosted with the occasional date that leads to me paying for drinks and dinner, only to get ghosted. I’ve always been a shy person and I can only handle so much failure before I don’t want to play anymore. I missed out on the high school and college dating scenes and it shows. There is one common denominator in all of my dating failures and it’s me.
Men don’t want to be branded ‘creepy’ and women have constantly stated they want to be left alone. Men listened.
People in this thread are fucking wild… In college, and before I met my wife, I’d just get fucking trashed at house parties and then try to hit on anything with a pulse. Now, I’m not some “lady’s man,” and I didn’t pull them all, but it definitely worked well enough to get me laid when I wasn’t dating someone.
Shocker - never maced or reported for sexual assault?
Are the non-ace okay?
Men are finally leaving women alone? I never thought I would see this day!
I just got divorced at 30 after 7 years and I’m probably not going to get involved with a woman again. I’m not interested in having kids because the world is ending so it’s essentially a no win situation unless someone can change my mind on this.
Had a crush on one of my friends for years and she wasn’t interested even when I got divorced. Till I bought my house and now she wants in on my life.
I’m not saying all women are bad but I just don’t see the risk being worth it. My ex wife ruined my life after many years of happiness.
There are a lot of positives being in a relationship but way more negatives. I’m just happier alone.
Women don’t want to be approached in public.
Men learn this quickly.
Also that speed dating stat is totally a lie, every dating event is a sausage fest.
Most speed dating events don’t actually exist. It’s just a scam to collect money and put you on an indefinite wait list.
It’s starting to change. It’s hardly the norm but speed dating events in New York, LA have had shortages of men.
Especially with the terrible press and stories coming from them… men are starting to just not attend.
In high school, I tried to start dating a girl by asking for her Facebook account, but she rejected me. Something that women don’t understand is that constantly doing that is demoralizing. But I think that’s part of beign a male.
Women don’t want to be approached in public.
Bro, so how are we supposed to meet each other? Telepathy?
I just don’t think people want men around.
45% of men 18 to 25 have never asked out a woman in person
I can’t speak for the whole 45% but some of us have heard stories from women about how that other 55% can behave. I think I’d rather wait for a lady to (never) ask me out then put someone in the position of thinking “Oh, is he gonna take it bad if I say no?”
This is it. I feel like I am inflicting myself on women. That I am a problem for them simply for existing. Why would I do something like that to someone if its as bad as we are always being told?
Also, some of us are gay.
Bachelor pride vibes.
You’ve drank too much ideological koolaid. People aren’t what you read in the news or a great deal of the internet.
It’s actually really easy to get a date in person if you are not a total ogre and treat women like normal people.
Weirdo white knights can easily end up as incels. Neither of those groups tend to do very well in actual social situations.
It’s really easy?
Get out and ask some people. Plenty of women like it as long as you’re polite
Until you approach another wrong one and you get another lecture for saying hi
This shit is actually happening
So walk away from them, or handle it gracefully somehow. It’s the same as trying to make a friend. Doesn’t everyone make friends from time to time?
Interest + effort = relationship of any kind. Find the shared interest, make a little bit of effort… or don’t and the math doesn’t work. If romance doesn’t come, you’ve made a friend.
Enough negative experiences reinforce and define behavior.
This is true for any being with a nervous system.
IDK why you think every individual magically changing is something realistic.
it’s just that you’re fragile and a disgrace. it’s revolting. the fascists are taking over. grow some confidence. we need heroes, not insecure little boys. you know what will get you laid real quick? bashin the fash.
“Polite” implies that if you’re agreeable and friendly women will understand that you’re interested in them and not just being agreeable and friendly.
I think part of the problem is that what we’re all really after is fucking, which isn’t polite at all. Being polite about it just makes you look weak and ineffective at the thing that we all say we want but can’t mention.
If any mention of sex by a man is considered inappropriate, how is a man supposed to negotiate sex?
This is a big reason why I’m engaged: We got the impolite part out of the way first.
So many comments echoing “women told us to stop approaching us, so we did!”
I mean no offense, truly, but you missed the point if that’s the message you took. It wasn’t “Do not, under any circumstances, speak to a woman” it was, “if you shoot your shot and she’s not interested, move on and don’t make it weird. If she is at work, be very careful as customer service does not equal flirting.” Yes, there are some grey areas (not sure even the best gentleman could slide up to a woman alone in a parking lot and not freak her out), but some of you are kicking up the board without even moving a piece. Stop pushing the narrative that only attractive men can speak to women. Not only are you assuming you’re not attractive by saying that (which cannot be good for your confidence) , you’re reducing women’s feelings and concerns as being blindly shallow and unwarranted.
The world is not full of only beautiful people, yet people still live and love. Not to dismiss the difficulties (as an uggo myself, I get it), but you can get out there, I know you can.
It wasn’t “Do not, under any circumstances, speak to a woman”
Actually, as explained to me by a woman, it was exactly that.
This was well after I had married, somewhere in my fifth decade, so I was off that particular playing field for quite some time by that point. But on a lark I had asked a feminist what this “leave women alone” refrain meant. And some of it made perfect sense: don’t hit up cashiers or anyone doing their jobs, they’re just being nice and friendly because they are being paid to be polite.
But it also meant don’t approach women when they’re shopping for groceries, as they’re probably tired from work and just want to go home. Don’t approach women on public transportation, as they’re just trying to get home and don’t want to be accosted in a cramped public venue. Don’t approach women when they’re out with friends, because they are with friends and don’t want to be cleaved off like how a predator isolates a member of a herd.
This went on and on, to some pretty ridiculous lengths. Whereupon I asked, “how is any man supposed to do an unsolicited approach to chat up a woman?”, to which she said - and no, not kidding at all - “They shouldn’t. Any man who we’re interested in will understand when we’re interested in them.”
Like… telepathy.
Literal
f**king
telepathy.Sure as shit, this is what a woman said to me.
Most men get absolutely zero life experience in decoding super-subtle hints, and now they’re supposed to miraculously become an expert in navigating a potentially life-destroying minefield, where the only two outcomes is magically getting it right, or risking a non-trivial probability of incarceration and a criminal record when they (invariably) get it wrong?
No wonder so many men are saying “thanks, but no thanks.” That the juice - the outcome - is just no longer worth the squeeze - all the effort and risk that is shouldered. I don’t blame them in the least. They’re the smart ones.
And those who are slightly less smart are at least asking the $10,000 question: why aren’t women making the first approach? I mean, isn’t that what this whole “equality of the sexes” shtick was all about? Why don’t women put their money where their mouths are, and ask MEN out, for a change? Because I can guarantee that while any normal woman will experience a certain level of rejection, it will still be several orders of magnitude less than what a similarly-normal man experiences.
I was with you (to a degree)until:
they’re supposed to miraculously become an expert in navigating a potentially life-destroying minefield, where the only two outcomes is magically getting it right, or risking a non-trivial probability of incarceration and a criminal record when they (invariably) get it wrong?
This is some nonsense. The worst the man will get (barring some VERY unacceptable behavior on his part) is yelled at by an angry (and probably shitty, if all the man did was politely approach at even a remotely reasonable time) woman. Which, turns out, is something women deal with from shitty men fairly regularly. It turns out, when you are interacting with strangers out in public, there is a small chance you are going to interact with an asshole. That doesn’t mean you should be a hermit, that means you met an asshole. And if everyone you meet is an asshole… you’re probably the asshole.
But nobody is going to jail or having life-shattering consequences for saying hello to a woman they don’t know.
THAT BEING SAID, if we, as men, are regularly told that approaching a woman in public is uncomfortable, unpleasant, or downright scary for women, decent men won’t want to approach women in order to avoid making them uncomfortable.
My personal experience has been to the contrary, and have struck up conversations with a number of women I didn’t know in public, and never had a particularly bad experience. Maybe I am generally non-threatening, or maybe I have better social skills than some, but if all a person who rarely interacts with women hears is that initiating any sort of contact is unpleasant to the woman they talk to, I can’t imagine they’d be inclined to strike up a conversation. And if they do make women uncomfortable (due to poor social skills from… not regularly interacting with women), it only reinforces that belief.
What’s the answer? I don’t know. But it feels like making men who care about the feelings of women uncomfortable with approaching them does nothing but leave the ones who don’t care. I think the message needs to change.
I have a feeling this is a very american thing. Random encounters with the other sex were the norm in Germany (at least before tinder and the likes, no idea how it’s nowadays). Being confident got you a long way. Not always, mind you. But often enough. Most women actually like being spoken to, as long as it’s a friendly encounter. I believe it might be different in America because everyone there is trying to one up each other (often resulting in loud and annoying behavior). I wouldn’t want to be chatted up by the cliche american guy either.
Well I’m not American and it felt pretty spot on, so idk.
Being confident got you a long way.
Still does here in America. But as this thread proves, lots of people on Lemmy lack it.
I’ve never been handsome, and I’ve never had a problem dating. Even when i was in high school and was awkward as fuck.
I grew up on a small town, and everyone talked to everyone. So i never had an issue.
Lemmy seems to have more social outcasts than even Reddit.
I would honestly say your friend misunderstood the message as well if that was her takeaway.
I would honestly say your friend misunderstood the message as well if that was her takeaway.
Unlikely - she was and still is a professor teaching women’s studies at the local university. Published, too. She’s hardly a nobody.
I had a physics professor tell me about free energy. Having a degree is not 100% effective in curing stupid.
I had a physics professor tell me about free energy. Having a degree is not 100% effective in curing stupid.
There are physicists that don’t believe in anthropogenic climate change, and that is to be expected because that subject isn’t in their wheelhouse; it isn’t their bread-and-butter, and that isn’t their day job that they work on for 2,000+hrs a year for decades on end. So they are lacking a lot of the data that would allow them to make correct decisions regarding factuality.
But when most of an academic field is saying the exact same thing about a core subject that is at the foundation of their discipline, imma not gonna be arrogant enough to presume that they’re wrong. I’m going to take them exactly at their word.
That’s actually even worse 😬
sure thing, incel
sure thing, incel
Tell me you know nothing about that word without saying you are ignorant AF about that word, and are only throwing it around as a weapon in an attempt to publicly shame me into being quiet.
So: nice ad hominem. You clearly have absolutely nothing of substance in which to counter the message, so instead you attack the speaker.
Truly an effective way of winning arguments! /s
you? did i tag you or mention you by name? or are you just that insecure?
also, congratulations for highlighting the logical fallacy! i’m sure that’ll get you laid, poindexter!
Why does it have to be men doing the asking? Maybe it’s the 'tism talking but I tend to be very onboard for the whole equity and equality stuff especially in a relationship. I have never understood why people feel so strongly about gendered roles or activities. Despite being functional in pretty much all traditionally gendered skills (in both directions), I haven’t really ever encountered someone that takes it as seriously.
Of the women I have dated that have been the most vocal about equity and DEI when I point out that they tend to all back to traditional gender roles when it’s to their advantage they have all essentially ended up saying that it is just their personal preference. Well no shit. I’m sure there are plenty of men who would prefer to be able to have all of the housework done by their partner, or billionaires that don’t want to give up any of their money even if they talk about wealth inequality. Just because it’s a preference doesn’t mean it’s OK.
Men don’t have to be the ones asking, but I was responding to the idea that men can’t approach women by default. Either gender can shoot their shot.
And those women can have a preference for a more “traditional” role, it just means they need to be aware that not every guy they meet is going to be cool with that and that may mean making a choice down the line. The idea is that two people are in a relationship that works for them and everyone is safe and respected. So, yes, it’s okay for people to have that preference. The issue is forcing your preference to be the standard.
The issue with the women I have met in my example is that they only want the advantages of the traditional without the negatives. They want the emotional and labor and physical chores to be shared equally, but they don’t want to be responsible for initiating or pursuing. Nor do they have any interest in learning how to do basic things with tools and would rather their partner deal with it.
If we aren’t going to give a misogynist a pass because they don’t want to give up what they have for equality because that’s just his preference, then I don’t think it’s fair to give anyone else a pass when applying the same logic.
fuck em. let em figure it out. this is no time for weakness.
I don’t know man, it sounds like you follow rule 1 and 2 and don’t realize it.
18-25 in 2025 means 13-20 when COVID happened.
We’re going to see the long term effects of people in that micro generation losing much of what the high school social scene represented, that low stakes junior league of forming new relationships, where meeting is easy, with lots of natural opportunities for free interaction, and making new connections is normal. Learning to flirt in that environment is a stepping stone towards being able to navigate the adult world, where people don’t have your schedule planned out for you, and you won’t naturally see the same people 100+ days out of the year, and have 50+ chances to shoot your shot when you’re ready.
And yes, sure, the loss of third places and changing social dynamics and gender roles and the economy play a role, too, for pretty much everyone under 40. But it’s worth pointing out that this specific age cohort has special challenges on top of the issues that everyone else is living, too.
Ah so the rest of the boys had the same experience I had going to an all boys school then, misery loves company I guess
That first sentence hit me like a truck
Surely this feeling is due to some kind of chronoton radiation.
Eject the warp core.
there also could end up being echos of the disturbance for years to come as the traditions that would have been spread by upperclassmen died out.
I was a total social reject in high school because I was a queer girl in a Nazi shithole and I don’t know if I’ll ever recover. Although the social disruption only lasted for 2 years due to COVID so there could be differences between people who were freshmen vs juniors. Worth studying
I’ve tried and I’m still trying. As someone who is a bit shorter than average and is socially awkward, it’s tough. Recently I’ve been able to get dates with 3 girls from dating apps (due to me being better at flirting and getting a few more matches than before), but they all went nowhere.
1 girl didn’t seem to want any touching or flirty things on the first date and the conversation wasn’t smooth, so I friendzoned her.
The other 2 girls immediately started with a flirty text conversation.
I hit it off with first one over text, we were having long phone calls and sending raunchy stuff over text. I had one short date with and was planning a spicier 2nd date with but she cancelled because I asked her to be my Valentine on Valentine’s Day.
The 2nd one wanted to take things slower, and friendzoned me after 2 longer dates. She also wasn’t that into touching.
I never kissed any of these girls. I don’t know what I’m doing wrong, especially with the first flirty girl.
Not doing anything wrong homie in fact youre doing it perfect. Just keep trying like you said, cuz it’s nothing personal, you either vibe or you don’t. Keep being natural so when you do click with someone they’re connecting with the real you
For the average man making unsolicited approaches, the latest stats I have seen tend to bounce between the 1-in-300 and the 1-in-1,500 range of a successful approach per total attempts. And this is just first-date-is-successful territory, it gets a good magnitude worse if you are looking for an LTR.
From what I understand, the flip side is a lot lower: an average women making unsolicited approaches to men seem to be hitting a 1-in-5 to 1-in-20 success range, depending on conditions
So yeah, being a man outside of the desirable 10% is indeed playing on hard mode. And from what I can see, things have only gotten much, much worse for the average man in the last few decades since I was young. I don’t envy young men these days, at all.
I don’t know what I’m doing wrong
You are suffering from a lack of experience.
Women have the ability to learn by proxy, when having intimate conversations with sisters, mothers, aunts, and other female role models. This gives them a massive buff long before they ever begin dating, because they are able to gain an emotional roadmap of how things go down, and then build on that with experience.
Men don’t have this same transfer of knowledge, nor are we even psychologically set up to build one, so in aggregate we are massively nerfed straight out of the gate. This means our only way of learning is via direct experience and sheer volume: you need to circulate and learn from your experiences in order to percolate. It sucks, but that’s the breaks. The rare guy will get lucky straight out of the gate. The vast majority, however, will have to approach and be rejected by many hundreds to even thousands of women before they “find their groove” enough to catch a break.
And your own insecurities are working against you: being nervous, desperate, or unsure of yourself is something that women - again, through that buff of intergenerational information transfer - are able to “smell” almost instinctively. If you want to vanquish those issues, you quite literally need to work on yourself, to focus on improving yourself and gaining confidence within yourself by overcoming obstacles and challenges that you set for yourself.
Stoicism can assist in helping you become a better version of yourself, in becoming intrinsically motivated such that companionship shifts away from being a clawing need to merely a value-added proposition.
I don’t buy the “speed dating has more men than women” thing for a second unless they’re talking about the 45+ bracket.
In fact I just checked a local speed dating event and the male tickets were sold out and the female ones had a 2 for 1 promo lol
male tickets were sold out and the female ones had a 2 for 1 promo
Doesn’t that reinforce that there are more men there than women? That would tell me that they are full on men, but desperately trying to sell tickets to women to get them to show up.
