Like, I really understand where this is coming and I see why it’s that way. But I’m also really tired of being seen as a threat just because my way home seems to have some overlap. How do I react to make clear I’m not interested in rape, violence, stalking, whatever? I just want to get home to my dogs, there’s no need to prepare your keys to gouge my eyes out.
what are men supposed to do with this besides feel bad?
Be aware. I am a large, semi-muscular male, if I am walking down the street and there is a woman by herself I will slow down and give her space or cross to the other side of the road. It really doesn’t take much.
“Uhhh, yes ALL MEN, why would you say not all men?”
“Uh not all of them obviously, I don’t mean the good ones. If you thought I was targeting you when I said all men are bad, threats to innocent people, and need to be kept out of public spaces and valuable positions. Obviously you are a bad person.”
I’m a bigger guy, about 6’3" and about 230 lbs, so I get that I look intimidating some times. But I’ve honestly just walked past a woman and smiled at them and get a nasty look. I go out of my way to put out a happy and positive image and still sometimes get looked at like I’m some threat.
It’s tiring and honestly at some point you just stop caring. I stop smiling and reassuring everyone smaller than me to make them feel better, because what’s the point. I’ve become jaded.
If I’m going to be treated like a bad guy NO MATTER WHAT I ACTUALLY DO, I might as well be a fucking bad guy. Don’t do the crime if you…are going to do the time anyway?
Ditto: I literally take pubic transit to work every single day and every single time I hop off I hop off with these 2 other ladies, and they always pretend to check their bag so that I walk ahead of them and they can see me.
I totally understand why they do that but it still is just dehumanizing to me, specially after literal years of getting off at the same stop.
I think it would be weird to introduce myself to them, here in Canada you do not really talk to other people on the bus except maybe if youre going to another city and have literally nothing else to do
Also, what sort of monster wants to have a conversation with strangers on the morning commute? I’d rather not talk to anyone til at least mid afternoon.
But isn’t that also true with snakes? All of the times that I’ve stumbled across copperheads or rattlesnakes, they’ve just wanted to do their thing, and go on their way. They didn’t want to bite me. And 99.999% of the time, as long as you back off, the snake isn’t going to do anything.
…Except there’s that .001% of the time when a snake is going to chase someone, and attack them. And that makes everyone terrified of all snakes, because they never know which one is going to be that .001%.
It’s understandable, but it’s not fair, and yeah, it sucks to have people think you’re a threat when you’re trying hard not to be.
… there’s no need to prepare your keys to gouge my eyes out.
When I see women do this around me, I feel a little glad for them that they don’t need to do this and a little sad they don’t (and really can’t) know that they don’t need to do this.
I understand feeling hurt that someone might be afraid of me, but that gets erased when I exercise a little empathy for that person who is afraid.
Just avoid looking at anyone for longer than a second or two, but don’t try to look like you are avoiding looking at anyone. If in close proximity, acknowledge their existence and then focus on something else. If they start conversing, reciprocate but do not try to keep the conversation going if it trails off. If they don’t appear to open to a conversation and you are in close proximity, a small nod to indicate you noticed them and then changing your focus is a really good way to indicate you noticed them, but are not interested in interacting with them.
This really puts victims at ease. I mean strangers. Yeah, strangers.
Seriously though, just existing in the same space and not forcing interaction does put people at ease. Being overly friendly or acting like you are trying to avoid noticing their existence is suspicious for good reasons.
Me: exist without an extensive list of precautions.
Women: oh no!
But to be honest, I’ve stopped looking at people at all because this costs me so much energy and at some time I just gave up. If this makes me look like a threat then I’m sorry.
It isn’t an extensive list, I just explained it with examples to avoid being too vague. It is just two things:
Don’t focus too much or actively ignore other people.
Mind your own business unless they start a conversation and don’t force it to continue.
Worrying too much about how others see you to the point that you are uncomfortable will make others uncomfortable. If you can be comfortable with yourself others will be more likely to feel comfortable around you.
Honestly my being an introvert with ADHD makes noticing people but not paying too much attention easy because I’m thinking about something else and am not looking for a conversation anyway! Threads like this and talking to women I know in person about what they find creepy is how I found out it is the least threatening way to act. Just got lucky tbh.
I’m an introvert as in focused internally on my own thoughts. I don’t have social anxiety and am comfortable talking to strangers if they start the conversation.
So I have to run through a check list for every single encounter I have just to not be treated like an animal. I can’t just exist and go about my life? I mean, I don’t see this helping the problem.
So I have to run through a check list for every single encounter I have just to not be treated like an animal. I can’t just exist and go about my life?
That’s what women apparently have to do to avoid being treated like meat. They can’t “just exist and go about [their lives],” so why do you think you should be entitled to?
If you don’t like it, help fix the root of the problem instead of bitching about your false victimhood.
Here’s a crazy idea, instead of making men suffer because women suffer, we just stop.
Well your last sentence really shows you don’t care. Let’s see how this works. If you don’t like women getting treated like meat help fix the root of the problem instead of bitching about your false victimhood. Am I doing it right? It’s this how we help each other fix problems?
Here’s a crazy idea, instead of making men suffer because women suffer, we just stop.
Of course! Women, if a strange man approaches you just say “no thank you.” Legally they cannot assault you, and it is socially unacceptable for them to do so.
Here’s a crazy idea, instead of making men suffer because women suffer, we just stop.
Okay, so how are you, personally gonna make people stop?
Or are you just going to do nothing (except attack the “uppity” women who are complaining about it) and consider it to be not your problem? 'Cause the result of that is women continuing to suffer while men enjoy privilege. It sure sounds like that’s what you actually want.
Let’s see how this works. If you don’t like women getting treated like meat help fix the root of the problem instead of bitching about your false victimhood. Am I doing it right? It’s this how we help each other fix problems?
Assuming you understand that “the root of the problem” is male aggression, yes! As I wrote a minute ago in another comment:
…the real answer is “actively work to stop other people from treating people like shit,” and even more specifically, “understand who the aggressors and victims are so you don’t make the problem worse by attacking people who are just trying to defend themselves.”
If us non-sexist/predatory men don’t want to be lumped in with the assholes, it’s our obligation to actively ally with women to stop the assholes. It doesn’t fucking matter if it’s “fair” or not; that’s just how the world works.
Or are you just going to do nothing (except attack the “uppity” women who are complaining about it) and consider it to be not your problem?
Ok.
Never once did I do this. I’ve been saying, over and over, that everyone should be treated like a human. All I can do is be the change I want to see.
You then just go on to blame men for everything. Men are the problem. Women being treated poorly, men’s fault. Men being treated poorly, men’s fault.
So women never do anything wrong and it’s all men’s fault. And I need to magically fix the whole problem or shut up and deal with being treated poorly.
You are a toxic person. You are dishonest, putting words in my mouth. You are the reason why people don’t take feminism seriously. You’re more interested in bashing men than trying to solve anything.
I’m done. I’m not going to waste my time without someone who can’t have a conversation without sarcastic attacks and lying about my actions and stances. Get blocked troll.
Take a moment and think about the consequences here for women vs the consequences for men.
Women: at risk of sexual assault in a society that down plays it, victim blames, and often fails to bring justice to the purpitrator.
Men: at risk of women giving them dirty looks.
This is like complaining about needing to ask for someone to unlock something for you because “I’m not going to steal anything, why are you treating me like a criminal?”
Never once did I do this. I’ve been saying, over and over, that everyone should be treated like a human. All I can do is be the change I want to see.
No, that’s not all you can do. Namely, you can quit pretending that the bad behavior of other men isn’t your problem if you don’t want to be lumped in with them.
You then just go on to blame men for everything. Men are the problem. Women being treated poorly, men’s fault. Men being treated poorly, men’s fault.
Yeah, that’s because it unironically is. Because in a male-dominated society men have the power and women don’t. What part of privilege and power dynamics do you not understand?
You are a toxic person. You are dishonest, putting words in my mouth. You are the reason why people don’t take feminism seriously. You’re more interested in bashing men than trying to solve anything.
You’re the toxic one here. You’re trying to DARVO the situation to make men the victims, but we’re just not.
I’m done. I’m not going to waste my time without someone who can’t have a conversation without sarcastic attacks and lying about my actions and stances. Get blocked troll.
LOL, you’re just whining because you can’t deal with having your privilege challenged.
A person proposed an issue, on how they’re treated and not knowing what to do. Your response was a check list to go through and things you have to do, but but too much, and don’t ignore certain people. Your solution to the problem is unreasonable, that’s what I’m saying.
Is paying attention to whether you are staring too difficult?
Is being aware that initiating or dragging out conversations with women you don’t know often comes across as intimidating too difficult to understand?
The last two sentences is a summary and all that someone needs to remember, but would be too vague without the previous context. There isn’t a less complicated answer.
Is paying attention to whether you are staring too difficult?
Is being honest too difficult? There is no room to have a conversation here with how you’re presenting things. This isn’t just “don’t stare” and you presenting it as such is arguing in bad faith. What was said, incase you somehow forgot what you yourself wrote was
Just avoid looking at anyone for longer than a second or two, but don’t try to look like you are avoiding looking at anyone. If in close proximity, acknowledge their existence and then focus on something else. If they start conversing, reciprocate but do not try to keep the conversation going if it trails off. If they don’t appear to open to a conversation and you are in close proximity, a small nod to indicate you noticed them and then changing your focus is a really good way to indicate you noticed them, but are not interested in interacting with them.
Man, seems like it’s more than just not staring to me. You actually call out " don’t try to look like you are avoiding looking at anyone" which is the opposite of staring. So you need to look at them, but not too much, just the magical right amount that you should know.
Is being aware that initiating or dragging out conversations with women you don’t know often comes across as intimidating too difficult to understand?
Nah, but I should be able to just keep to myself and not have a conversation without being treated like a predator for it. Again, you’re being extremely dishonest in how you frame things. You wrote the whole list of things you think people should do and now you act like “it’s just two simple things” ignoring what you wrote. Hell, I’d think these two message were written by two different people they’re so disconnected.
There isn’t a less complicated answer.
JFC. You waffle so often I don’t think you even know what you mean. " Is paying attention to whether you are staring too difficult?" also “it’s a complicated answer.” So why did you frame it like it was just two simple things when you know it’s a complex answer? Because you’re being dishonest.
This shouldn’t be a complex answer. The answer should be “don’t treat people like shit without knowing them.” That should be the answer. Not a list of magical rules every man has to follow just to make sure they get treated like a human.
Nah, but I should be able to just keep to myself and not have a conversation without being treated like a predator for it.
Oh no! Society is judging you unfairly because of your outward appearance? Gee, that almost sounds like the flip side of what the women are complaining about. Sucks, don’t it?
The answer should be “don’t treat people like shit without knowing them.” That should be the answer.
That’s not going to work until everybody does it, which means the real answer is “actively work to stop other people from treating people like shit,” and even more specifically, “understand who the aggressors and victims are so you don’t make the problem worse by attacking people who are just trying to defend themselves.”
You sound mad at me for saying that I should be treated fairly. Women also deal with it yes. But I don’t get why you feel the need to attack me for bringing it up. I’m sure you get upset if someone attacked a woman for being asked to be treated fairly.
You seem very angry at the world to the point where you are attacking people who want to be your allies and want the same thing. You even say “don’t make the problem worse by attacking people who are just trying to defend themselves” yet here you are with a sarcastic “oh no” and attacking me for literally just saying I want to be treated like a human. The hypocrisy is wild…
Man, seems like it’s more than just not staring to me. You actually call out " don’t try to look like you are avoiding looking at anyone" which is the opposite of staring. So you need to look at them, but not too much, just the magical right amount that you should know.
Ah yes, the magical right amount of: a second or two
Nah, but I should be able to just keep to myself and not have a conversation without being treated like a predator for it.
Good news, you can! That follows the recommendation to not initiate a conversation. Hell, if they happen to start one you aren’t obligated to participate!
Again, you’re being extremely dishonest in how you frame things.
No, I’m speaking from experience.
JFC. You waffle so often I don’t think you even know what you mean. " Is paying attention to whether you are staring too difficult?" also “it’s a complicated answer.” So why did you frame it like it was just two simple things when you know it’s a complex answer? Because you’re being dishonest.
lol
The answer should be “don’t treat people like shit without knowing them.”
What do you mean by not treating people like shit? Please explain without any examples, because that would make it complicated and dishonest.
Lol so much bs in a single response without saying a damn thing. About what I expected. You even laughed at your own nonsense, so at least there’s that I guess.
It’s clear you’re not interested in a convo. Just misrepresenting things said over and over while not contributing to the conversation at all. I’m sure you have lots of experience being treated like a creep with that mindset, which makes this list make a lot of sense.
If its late at night and a woman is walking in front of you, lower your speed. Let them get some extra distance. Then its not so awkward for you going the same way either.
I’m going to disagree because then it seems like you are following them. Changing your behavior because they are present is paying a lot of attention to them.
Acknowledging them, maybe stating where you are going without asking where they are going, and passing at the same speed has been very successful in my experience. The worst reaction I ever received was “I don’t care where you are going” which means they were comfortable giving me grief. The best reaction, which has happened a few times over the years, was a response that they were going the same way and asking to walk with me.
If it’s late, separate yourself from anyone else that might be a threat to you or your safety. Don’t encroach on peoples’ personal bubbles. Be aware of someone encroaching upon your own.
Walk swiftly, with a purpose and destination in mind. Be aware. If you notice that you’re inadvertently following someone after a while (it doesn’t matter what their gender is), consider an alternate route, or find somewhere to divert for a period of time — as a courtesy. It’s not going to become some new form of societal expectation.
Expecting everyone in the world to behave in some specific way that you personally believe is asinine. You cannot control what other people are going to do, you can only control your reactions.
But counterpoint; why do you care what other people feel around you? The best response to women scared you’re going to rape them is to not rape them.
Anything past that is your own insecurity and need for emotional validation. Sure, you could devote time and energy into being an activist in whatever forms you want, but some strange lady you don’t know is still going to cut across the sidewalk when they see you approaching. AND YOU CAN’T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. DEAL WITH IT.
Men “overcompensating” for this valid fear is what’s driving movements of really stupid, shitty men who like to roleplay stories on reddit how they had the cops called on them for hanging out near a playground. We don’t need to do this. Make the world better, make your emotional state better. Don’t worry what other people feel or think, you will never be broadly loved by everyone, or even broadly accepted by everyone. You’ll be lucky if you have several people in your ENTIRE LIFE who trust you. That’s the sticks. Sorry kid.
edit: i stand by it, and the screaming “sexism!” outrage only further validates my belief that you’re all living in a fantasy world online where you think someone is coming. Where you think things are going to change.
NOBODY IS COMING. You have to adjust your own thinking and feeling about the world if you’re going to survive it. It gets so much worse guys, these little issues with women thinking you’re bad? You will wish one day that was the worst issue you ever had to juggle over in your head, if you can get past it sooner than later you will save yourself and your loved-ones a lot of heartache as you have your inevitable meltdown we all have eventually.
I’m also empowering the men who do need to hear this. Nothing is black and white, I accept that my message my make some people uncomfortable and that’s not my problem honestly. As you get older you realize that truth is something most people dance around and avoid. All of us. And you’re just going to burn yourself to the ground trying to reconcile these things you just can’t fucking change, but keep telling yourself lies that the world will change for you.
Nobody is coming. You need to deal with pain and let it go so you can live a fulfilling life with other people. You are the ONLY one who can make that happen.
Like, I really understand where this is coming and I see why it’s that way. But I’m also really tired of being seen as a threat just because my way home seems to have some overlap. How do I react to make clear I’m not interested in rape, violence, stalking, whatever? I just want to get home to my dogs, there’s no need to prepare your keys to gouge my eyes out.
In all seriousness, what are men supposed to do with this besides feel bad?
Or is that the point?
Speak up when you see other men being abusive jerks. Use peer pressure to improve the behavior instead of excusing it.
Be aware. I am a large, semi-muscular male, if I am walking down the street and there is a woman by herself I will slow down and give her space or cross to the other side of the road. It really doesn’t take much.
If it’s not about you then don’t worry about it
For some of us, like certain spans of the autistic spectrum, that really isn’t a simple ask.
Because we do worry. We do feel empathy. We can’t help but feel like we’re still being lumped in.
We are already so paranoid from a lifetime of being blamed for every little deviation that it’s just more of the same.
“Uhhh, yes ALL MEN, why would you say not all men?”
“Uh not all of them obviously, I don’t mean the good ones. If you thought I was targeting you when I said all men are bad, threats to innocent people, and need to be kept out of public spaces and valuable positions. Obviously you are a bad person.”
That’s the same mentality trump voters have
Not getting mad when someone feels threatened by you is a pretty good start.
Constantly being treated like a bad guy, no matter what you do or how hard you try gets wearing. Right or wrong, it makes some men apathetic.
Either I look really non-threatening, or I’m just oblivious, because I’ve never noticed this. Probably a bit of both.
I’m a bigger guy, about 6’3" and about 230 lbs, so I get that I look intimidating some times. But I’ve honestly just walked past a woman and smiled at them and get a nasty look. I go out of my way to put out a happy and positive image and still sometimes get looked at like I’m some threat.
It’s tiring and honestly at some point you just stop caring. I stop smiling and reassuring everyone smaller than me to make them feel better, because what’s the point. I’ve become jaded.
If I’m going to be treated like a bad guy NO MATTER WHAT I ACTUALLY DO, I might as well be a fucking bad guy. Don’t do the crime if you…are going to do the time anyway?
“Women made me evil”
Yeah, and the Republicans made Canada evil.
Women have treated me in such a way that I’m not longer willing to try considering myself to be on their side.
Why would you believe a position that involves hating an entire gender is at all justified
“We treat all men like rapists because what if one actually is?”
“We treat all women like they’re going to falsely accuse you of rape because what if one actually does?”
“How can you be that evil?”
So your excuse is that some other people of the opposite gender are equally as shitty as you’re planning to be?
Ditto: I literally take pubic transit to work every single day and every single time I hop off I hop off with these 2 other ladies, and they always pretend to check their bag so that I walk ahead of them and they can see me.
I totally understand why they do that but it still is just dehumanizing to me, specially after literal years of getting off at the same stop.
If it’s the same two women every day then you could say hello and introduce yourself?
I think it would be weird to introduce myself to them, here in Canada you do not really talk to other people on the bus except maybe if youre going to another city and have literally nothing else to do
Also, what sort of monster wants to have a conversation with strangers on the morning commute? I’d rather not talk to anyone til at least mid afternoon.
I get where the replier is coming from but 100% where wi live if you chat with strangers on the bus you are being a monster.
This constant promotion of the sense of fear is one of the biggest ways we destroy any sense of local community.
Run up to them, and announce that you don’t intend to harm them and then ask where they live so you can safely escort them home.
But isn’t that also true with snakes? All of the times that I’ve stumbled across copperheads or rattlesnakes, they’ve just wanted to do their thing, and go on their way. They didn’t want to bite me. And 99.999% of the time, as long as you back off, the snake isn’t going to do anything.
…Except there’s that .001% of the time when a snake is going to chase someone, and attack them. And that makes everyone terrified of all snakes, because they never know which one is going to be that .001%.
It’s understandable, but it’s not fair, and yeah, it sucks to have people think you’re a threat when you’re trying hard not to be.
When I see women do this around me, I feel a little glad for them that they don’t need to do this and a little sad they don’t (and really can’t) know that they don’t need to do this.
I understand feeling hurt that someone might be afraid of me, but that gets erased when I exercise a little empathy for that person who is afraid.
Just avoid looking at anyone for longer than a second or two, but don’t try to look like you are avoiding looking at anyone. If in close proximity, acknowledge their existence and then focus on something else. If they start conversing, reciprocate but do not try to keep the conversation going if it trails off. If they don’t appear to open to a conversation and you are in close proximity, a small nod to indicate you noticed them and then changing your focus is a really good way to indicate you noticed them, but are not interested in interacting with them.
This really puts victims at ease. I mean strangers. Yeah, strangers.
Seriously though, just existing in the same space and not forcing interaction does put people at ease. Being overly friendly or acting like you are trying to avoid noticing their existence is suspicious for good reasons.
Me: exist without an extensive list of precautions.
Women: oh no!
But to be honest, I’ve stopped looking at people at all because this costs me so much energy and at some time I just gave up. If this makes me look like a threat then I’m sorry.
It isn’t an extensive list, I just explained it with examples to avoid being too vague. It is just two things:
Worrying too much about how others see you to the point that you are uncomfortable will make others uncomfortable. If you can be comfortable with yourself others will be more likely to feel comfortable around you.
AUDHD: “Let’s create a huge problem where none needs to exist, ok?”
Honestly my being an introvert with ADHD makes noticing people but not paying too much attention easy because I’m thinking about something else and am not looking for a conversation anyway! Threads like this and talking to women I know in person about what they find creepy is how I found out it is the least threatening way to act. Just got lucky tbh.
I’m an introvert as in focused internally on my own thoughts. I don’t have social anxiety and am comfortable talking to strangers if they start the conversation.
So I have to run through a check list for every single encounter I have just to not be treated like an animal. I can’t just exist and go about my life? I mean, I don’t see this helping the problem.
That’s what women apparently have to do to avoid being treated like meat. They can’t “just exist and go about [their lives],” so why do you think you should be entitled to?
If you don’t like it, help fix the root of the problem instead of bitching about your false victimhood.
Who says they can’t? They should be able to.
Here’s a crazy idea, instead of making men suffer because women suffer, we just stop.
Well your last sentence really shows you don’t care. Let’s see how this works. If you don’t like women getting treated like meat help fix the root of the problem instead of bitching about your false victimhood. Am I doing it right? It’s this how we help each other fix problems?
Of course! Women, if a strange man approaches you just say “no thank you.” Legally they cannot assault you, and it is socially unacceptable for them to do so.
Problem solved!
Okay, so how are you, personally gonna make people stop?
Or are you just going to do nothing (except attack the “uppity” women who are complaining about it) and consider it to be not your problem? 'Cause the result of that is women continuing to suffer while men enjoy privilege. It sure sounds like that’s what you actually want.
Assuming you understand that “the root of the problem” is male aggression, yes! As I wrote a minute ago in another comment:
If us non-sexist/predatory men don’t want to be lumped in with the assholes, it’s our obligation to actively ally with women to stop the assholes. It doesn’t fucking matter if it’s “fair” or not; that’s just how the world works.
Ok.
Never once did I do this. I’ve been saying, over and over, that everyone should be treated like a human. All I can do is be the change I want to see.
You then just go on to blame men for everything. Men are the problem. Women being treated poorly, men’s fault. Men being treated poorly, men’s fault.
So women never do anything wrong and it’s all men’s fault. And I need to magically fix the whole problem or shut up and deal with being treated poorly.
You are a toxic person. You are dishonest, putting words in my mouth. You are the reason why people don’t take feminism seriously. You’re more interested in bashing men than trying to solve anything.
I’m done. I’m not going to waste my time without someone who can’t have a conversation without sarcastic attacks and lying about my actions and stances. Get blocked troll.
Take a moment and think about the consequences here for women vs the consequences for men.
Women: at risk of sexual assault in a society that down plays it, victim blames, and often fails to bring justice to the purpitrator.
Men: at risk of women giving them dirty looks.
This is like complaining about needing to ask for someone to unlock something for you because “I’m not going to steal anything, why are you treating me like a criminal?”
No, that’s not all you can do. Namely, you can quit pretending that the bad behavior of other men isn’t your problem if you don’t want to be lumped in with them.
Yeah, that’s because it unironically is. Because in a male-dominated society men have the power and women don’t. What part of privilege and power dynamics do you not understand?
You’re the toxic one here. You’re trying to DARVO the situation to make men the victims, but we’re just not.
LOL, you’re just whining because you can’t deal with having your privilege challenged.
Is anyone treating you like an animal in real life, or are you taking online comments that are generalizations about some common behaviors personally?
A person proposed an issue, on how they’re treated and not knowing what to do. Your response was a check list to go through and things you have to do, but but too much, and don’t ignore certain people. Your solution to the problem is unreasonable, that’s what I’m saying.
I don’t understand what’s so hard to follow.
Is paying attention to whether you are staring too difficult?
Is being aware that initiating or dragging out conversations with women you don’t know often comes across as intimidating too difficult to understand?
The last two sentences is a summary and all that someone needs to remember, but would be too vague without the previous context. There isn’t a less complicated answer.
Is being honest too difficult? There is no room to have a conversation here with how you’re presenting things. This isn’t just “don’t stare” and you presenting it as such is arguing in bad faith. What was said, incase you somehow forgot what you yourself wrote was
Man, seems like it’s more than just not staring to me. You actually call out " don’t try to look like you are avoiding looking at anyone" which is the opposite of staring. So you need to look at them, but not too much, just the magical right amount that you should know.
Nah, but I should be able to just keep to myself and not have a conversation without being treated like a predator for it. Again, you’re being extremely dishonest in how you frame things. You wrote the whole list of things you think people should do and now you act like “it’s just two simple things” ignoring what you wrote. Hell, I’d think these two message were written by two different people they’re so disconnected.
JFC. You waffle so often I don’t think you even know what you mean. " Is paying attention to whether you are staring too difficult?" also “it’s a complicated answer.” So why did you frame it like it was just two simple things when you know it’s a complex answer? Because you’re being dishonest.
This shouldn’t be a complex answer. The answer should be “don’t treat people like shit without knowing them.” That should be the answer. Not a list of magical rules every man has to follow just to make sure they get treated like a human.
Oh no! Society is judging you unfairly because of your outward appearance? Gee, that almost sounds like the flip side of what the women are complaining about. Sucks, don’t it?
That’s not going to work until everybody does it, which means the real answer is “actively work to stop other people from treating people like shit,” and even more specifically, “understand who the aggressors and victims are so you don’t make the problem worse by attacking people who are just trying to defend themselves.”
You sound mad at me for saying that I should be treated fairly. Women also deal with it yes. But I don’t get why you feel the need to attack me for bringing it up. I’m sure you get upset if someone attacked a woman for being asked to be treated fairly.
You seem very angry at the world to the point where you are attacking people who want to be your allies and want the same thing. You even say “don’t make the problem worse by attacking people who are just trying to defend themselves” yet here you are with a sarcastic “oh no” and attacking me for literally just saying I want to be treated like a human. The hypocrisy is wild…
Ah yes, the magical right amount of: a second or two
Good news, you can! That follows the recommendation to not initiate a conversation. Hell, if they happen to start one you aren’t obligated to participate!
No, I’m speaking from experience.
lol
What do you mean by not treating people like shit? Please explain without any examples, because that would make it complicated and dishonest.
Lol so much bs in a single response without saying a damn thing. About what I expected. You even laughed at your own nonsense, so at least there’s that I guess.
It’s clear you’re not interested in a convo. Just misrepresenting things said over and over while not contributing to the conversation at all. I’m sure you have lots of experience being treated like a creep with that mindset, which makes this list make a lot of sense.
You say that like a joke but that is unironically what I do. Am I an idiot?
The only joke part is calling them victims. All of the rest is honest advice and you are doing the right things.
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I’m going to disagree because then it seems like you are following them. Changing your behavior because they are present is paying a lot of attention to them.
Acknowledging them, maybe stating where you are going without asking where they are going, and passing at the same speed has been very successful in my experience. The worst reaction I ever received was “I don’t care where you are going” which means they were comfortable giving me grief. The best reaction, which has happened a few times over the years, was a response that they were going the same way and asking to walk with me.
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I generally walk faster then other people, so that’ll be a hard one. I get really irritated at work when people won’t get the fuck out of the walkway.
Yikes - no, not at all.
If it’s late, separate yourself from anyone else that might be a threat to you or your safety. Don’t encroach on peoples’ personal bubbles. Be aware of someone encroaching upon your own.
Walk swiftly, with a purpose and destination in mind. Be aware. If you notice that you’re inadvertently following someone after a while (it doesn’t matter what their gender is), consider an alternate route, or find somewhere to divert for a period of time — as a courtesy. It’s not going to become some new form of societal expectation.
Expecting everyone in the world to behave in some specific way that you personally believe is asinine. You cannot control what other people are going to do, you can only control your reactions.
But counterpoint; why do you care what other people feel around you? The best response to women scared you’re going to rape them is to not rape them.
Anything past that is your own insecurity and need for emotional validation. Sure, you could devote time and energy into being an activist in whatever forms you want, but some strange lady you don’t know is still going to cut across the sidewalk when they see you approaching. AND YOU CAN’T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. DEAL WITH IT.
Men “overcompensating” for this valid fear is what’s driving movements of really stupid, shitty men who like to roleplay stories on reddit how they had the cops called on them for hanging out near a playground. We don’t need to do this. Make the world better, make your emotional state better. Don’t worry what other people feel or think, you will never be broadly loved by everyone, or even broadly accepted by everyone. You’ll be lucky if you have several people in your ENTIRE LIFE who trust you. That’s the sticks. Sorry kid.
edit: i stand by it, and the screaming “sexism!” outrage only further validates my belief that you’re all living in a fantasy world online where you think someone is coming. Where you think things are going to change.
NOBODY IS COMING. You have to adjust your own thinking and feeling about the world if you’re going to survive it. It gets so much worse guys, these little issues with women thinking you’re bad? You will wish one day that was the worst issue you ever had to juggle over in your head, if you can get past it sooner than later you will save yourself and your loved-ones a lot of heartache as you have your inevitable meltdown we all have eventually.
Bad take, you’re dismissing society’s effect on the psyche of many men by saying these things
I’m also empowering the men who do need to hear this. Nothing is black and white, I accept that my message my make some people uncomfortable and that’s not my problem honestly. As you get older you realize that truth is something most people dance around and avoid. All of us. And you’re just going to burn yourself to the ground trying to reconcile these things you just can’t fucking change, but keep telling yourself lies that the world will change for you.
Nobody is coming. You need to deal with pain and let it go so you can live a fulfilling life with other people. You are the ONLY one who can make that happen.