- cross-posted to:
- gaming@lemmy.zip
- cross-posted to:
- gaming@lemmy.zip
You must log in or register to comment.
One of my favorite trophies to get was the no kill run on the first dishonored. A lot of fun finding all the different ways to be a ghost. Though I wish they had more stealth magic, most of the stuff was combat based if I remember correctly
Anyone ever watch stealthgamerBR dishonored videos? Freaking rad AF
Mhm. Can’t say I enjoyed Dishonored much, myself. I prefer Thief 1-3, probably because they are slower paced and have less combat.
All instances of combat in Dishonored are completely optional in Dishonored. It’s actually one of the built in challenges of the game that you are rewarded for. Beating the game with out ever being seen is called Ghost and beating it with zero kills is called Pacifist.
Best part about 1 is abusing stealth, 2 I had to play more straightforward
Dishonored nailed a neat trick: If every game dev stops innovating immediately after you release an innovative game, your game will always be considered highly innovative.
Oh man, VGCats. I remember those days.
A reminder of a bygone era. Remember when we thought the video game industry was a mess back then?
Dishonored (1) is my favorite game of all time. I’ve put in so many hours across every console I’ve owned since it came out in 2012. Some of the best DLC story expansions of all time, too. Glad to see it still getting some love and mourning the fact that we’ll never get another game.
Raphael Colantonio, the creative mind behind Dishonored, has started a new studio! Here’s an article about their next game
Wow that looks like a blast. I just finished my ~fifth playthrough of Bioshock: Infinite last week and that game looks like it would slot in right beside that. Thanks for sharing!
Ive played a lot of similar games and other games since it came out. I still think about this game.
When I played the Dishonored series I had massive Thief vibes, I loved it! I looted everything and I killed no one, and it felt like good old times.
Reminds me, time to play them again!
That game is insane. Like, I played the game with a non-legal route because of the good ending and stuff. But after I finished the game, I wondered how other people played this game, and holy shit, we are playing different games lol. This game is very gorey I don’t even know it’s part of the core gameplay lol
Dude it’s a blast. When they came out I played through each Dishonored once slowly, methodically, and non-lethal. Then immediately started over and hauled ass just slaughtering anything that got in my way. Both ways are valid and so much fun!
I adored dishonored, I played through them a couple times so I could see both endings, and I felt like it provided a really different experience.
I especially liked how you could do ng+ in dishonored 2, meant I could replay it as the other character with a bunch of free upgrades and unlocks to get things started.
I bailed on Dishonoured for one very specific reason; the morality system.
Dishonoured is, in my opinion a spectacular example of game design, and an equally spectacular example of how to break your game design by not understanding the way players interact with the tools you give them.
Dishonoured is a stealth game. It’s also a game with a superb combat system, and a really fun and exciting set of powers for the player to enjoy using. These things can, sort of co-exist, if somewhat uneasily. But then you add the morality system.
The morality system, in effect, punishes you for playing the game in a non-stealthy way. Or, more specifically, for playing with the wrong kind of stealth. The morality system wants you to ghost the whole game, slipping past every opponent without the slightest evidence you were ever there. But doing that means not engaging with most of the powers and any of the combat.
Having the option to follow a ghost playstyle is great. But when the game sets up a bunch of really fun mechanics, then punishes you for engaging with those mechanics in exactly the way they were designed to be engaged with, that just sucks.
Yes, its a deliberate choice.
Dishonored is a descendant of the looking glass studio, 0451 immersive sim games, such as Deus Ex. These are games have flexibility, they let you choose how you approach. You can fight, or you can sneak, or you can do both. The game succeeds on this goal, as you can have a very satisfying time with the combat or the stealth, and you can do both. You can fight your way out of failing to sneak.
The morality system gives the game reactions to your actions, gives your choices an effect outside of the level you’re currently on. It does encourage a specific play style but that is deliberate. The outsider is a malevolent force, who doesn’t care for this world. He gives you these powers that come with a cost. Getting the good ending requires to resist the temptation. That’s the point.
Do not cite the deep magics to me, I was there when they were written. I grew up on System Shock and Deus Ex, and that’s exactly why I found Dishonoured so hard to get into. Those other games gave the player a complete free choice in how to approach them, but Dishonoured doesn’t do that. It presents an apparently wide open field, but the moment you pick a particular path and set off down it, the game wags its finger and says “Oh no, not like that. That’s not how you’re supposed to play.”
Can you explain why you think the game punishes the player for engaging in combat and killing enemies? I get that the events in the game may change but I’m not getting how that’s a punishment to the player.
You get a bad ending if you kill too many people, and the non-lethal option is just the chokehold for the most part. I bailed for the same reason the first few times I tried to play through the game. The morality system is really the games only critical flaw (or they need more non-lethal options)
Non-lethal also means avoidance rather than conflict. But ultimately, “bad ending” is subjective. You still save the princess, it’s just a more murdery vibe.
Also you get to kill the baddies yourself, it’s the good ending where most are killed for you right?
I guess it’s personal preference. I prefer for choices I make in the story to affect the outcome. If my gameplay has an affect, I feel like I’m being forced into a playstyle. I know it’s stupid, but I have trouble getting out of that thought process. For me it’s similar to why I can never get into bayonetta or devil may cry, the scoring system for each encounter stresses me out. I just want to have fun
Interesting, I’ve never considered choices and gameplay as separate things. Isn’t it more, I don’t know, immersive if gameplay and story are unified?
I’m not gonna disagree with you there, but personally sacrificing a bit of immersion here would be IMO more fun. I’m too extrinsicly motivated.
There’s also a lot of stuff throughout the game about how the city gets more corrupted, more rats everywhere, that sort of thing. Some of this makes some stuff harder, some of it is just vibes. But all of it is the designers very noticeably wagging their finger under your nose for engaging with the mechanics they made and actively encouraged you to engage with.
To me it feels more about consistency. The world aligns with your expressed ideology.
If you’re using the sneaking and non-lethal tools the world becomes a place that believes in the value of life, if you murder indiscriminately the world becomes a place of punishment, where nobody is innocent and the only way forward is to let a plague descend on the land.
Plus, arguably, the parts that get harder when you go lethal are balanced by the inherently more difficult nature of the non-lethal approach.
Appreciate the response. I feel that I’m in the minority when it comes to caring much about good or bad endings. Usually if a game has several endings I’ll replay it to get the other endings. I’ve never really felt that a “bad ending” was a punishment though. Even if I get immersed in the character I’m playing, I never felt as though I experienced the negative outcomes. I was playing Baldur’s Gate 3 with a friend and he was getting mad at me because I wasn’t playing lawfully good lol. That game was designed to keep progressing no matter what choices you make. You can kill the most important characters but the game keeps going. Yet he felt as though we would have to reload a previous save if I did something too “wrong”. Anyway, I just find the difference of opinion on the topic interesting lol sorry for the wall of text.
IMO the combat mechanics shouldn’t have been there in the first place, but the developers were terrified of making a player-character that wasn’t a demigod that can slaughter an entire army.
I still think Dishonored 1 & 2 are both really good games, but its like they made Portal but just let you break the walls of the test chambers and walk right through if you felt like it.
I’d be happy with either option. If you’re going to punish the player for not doing perfect (eg, no kill) stealth, don’t tease them with a bunch of really exciting combat mechanics. If you’re going to include all the exciting combat mechanics, don’t punish people for using them.
I think I’m the only person who played through the entire game and didn’t like it. Yes, yes, I should probably have quit but I’m a bit of an optimist and hoped it would get better.
It felt to me like the game really didn’t want me to kill anyone. However it had any number of fun ways to kill people and then scolded me when I was naughty enough to (gasp) use them!
Also the rats were bizarrely low poly compared to everything else. Odd gripe, perhaps, but given how crucial they are to the setting it felt strangely shit.
It was unfortunately a product of its time where moral systems ultimately amounted to binary good guy/bad guy outcomes which was the style at the time. The system was designed to make you want to play it twice. If you’re used to the more modern moral ambiguity in today’s RPGs I don’t think anyone can blame you for disliking it.
I grew up playing Fallout 1/2, Deus Ex, stuff like that. Dishonored framed its morality system as “chaos” rather than good vs. bad but ultimately I had characters complaining about my methods. You brought in someone to specifically be an assassin and then you’re outraged that he kills people? I shot the damn traiterous boatman in the head at the end of the game.
IIRC you still get the low-chaos ending if you only kill the targets. It’s just by going wild and killing everyone that you get high-chaos, and I think this fits in the moral framing of the game.
I do agree with your gripe that D1 gives you a lot of fun ways to kill people and challenges you not to use them, while at the same time giving you very little nonlethal tools. They addressed this well in the sequel IMO, but I did also love the challenge and the temptation knowing that these enemies would be so easy to defeat with a rat swarm but I just shouldn’t. Like I said, keeps with the moral framing about the slippery slope of mindless revenge IMO
Playing as Emily in 2 is really fun. You have the option to ignore stealth, go all out with your powers, and still not kill anyone.
I’m reminded of a show I was watching and lampshading. One of the characters is exhausting to watch and the other characters comment on how much the character sucks. That’s great an’ all but I’m still stuck watching this character suck. Commenting on it doesn’t make it go away.
Similarly I could not use the tools the game gives me but they’re there for me to use. If I’m not supposed to use them then I might as well instead play something that wants me to play it!
I understand what you’re saying (I think) but you know that… you can kill everyone, right? The worst the game does is throw a few more enemies at you (to kill) and some moral characters say mean things to you. Pretty standard RPG mechanics, IMO. It’s just a choice and like I said, the narrative framing sets you up to be a highly-trained stealthy assassin, not some mass-murdering juggernaut. But you can do that if you want
Similarly I could not use the tools the game gives me
Offers* you. There’s even an achievement for completing the game with just a sword and pistol, no upgrades or powers ;) Choices!!
Much like in Spec Ops: The Line the player can just stop playing. I mean, you’re not wrong, but it seems silly to me.
Some games handle this by making it the ultra-violent approach essentially non-viable but that’s not how Dishonored decided to roll.
the narrative framing sets you up to be a highly-trained stealthy assassin
I quietly took out guards rather than avoiding them. No alarms were raised, etc… Seems pretty stealthy to me.
Ultimately I just didn’t appreciate the mixed messaging of “here are tools for extreme violence” and “why did you commit extreme violence?”. If non-lethal means were such a priority why was I given tools that heavily favour lethality?
deleted by creator
You’re really not getting this lol
Well an assassin kills his targets. He doesn’t kill every innocent bystander he sees. In the first game, the guard enemies you see are your colleagues who are fully under the impression that you are a traitor who killed the empress. They are functionally your enemies during the game, but they are ultimately the good guys.
The rebel leaders, especially the admiral are going to complain about you killing who are also basically his men.
To be fair, that’s the best explanation I’ve seen. It’s been too long for me to remember the specifics.
yea, mofo sold me out & scolded me and he took an arrow in the ear for it
In what way do you think the game scolded you for killing enemies?
Whilst it’s been twelve years I remember returning to the between mission hub and characters literally complaining. The boatman in particular.
That’s true, it is a game where each choice has a direct consequence. Going along that train of thought, do you see the “star system” in GTA as the game scolding you for your choices? If you’ve never played it, in GTA you are a criminal and as you commit crimes you get a star rating. The more stars means the more law enforcement that attempts to subdue or kill you. There really isn’t a way to complete the game in a non-violent manner though.
A better equivalent would be a GTA game giving you a mission with a tank and then the mission givers seriously, not for comedy, giving the player shit for doing anything but driving on the road avoiding all cars.
My problem is with the tonal dissonance of giving the player weapons designed to be fun only for the game to complain when they’re used.
The opposite being a Bond game. Really he should only be using sneaky spy weapons but he’s given a ridiculous arsenal and expected to use it. If you give me a machine gun then why would you expect me not to use it?
I think there is a difference between what the developers expect and what characters expect. In Fallout3 a settlement builds their town around a deactivated nuclear bomb. There is an opportunity very early in the game to detonate it, which most characters understandably react poorly to. But I wouldn’t rate the game poorly because the surviving NPCs of that settlement become hostile to the player afterwards. The developers don’t really expect anything from the players as there is the choice to do either thing. I thought Dishonored did that as well. NPCs who cause havoc to the city by killing people and spreading disease will hear complaints from the surviving citizens. Also the story of the game sets up the player to be framed for murdering the empress so most NPCs by default already hate the player character. I liked that the game gave players the choice to remain noble and try to actively prevent further chaos or say fuck it and slaughter everyone who stands against you even if you are technically in the right.
Dishonored is one of the few games that I’ve turned right around and played through again after I beat it. The gameplay is just so free. It’s not really the biggest map ever, but it is so dense and easy to navigate. I also haven’t experienced a lot of titles that just ooze atmosphere the way that Dishonored does. The art direction is off the charts, and I think it’s aged pretty impeccably. It’s always a good idea to do stylized over realistic, at least if you want your game to stand the test of time.
The Thief vibes were stellar in Dishonored, I liked it more than Dishonored 2 to be honest! Dishonored had the right amount of stealthy gameplay, places you could hide easily without too much issue. I succeeded most levels as a ghost or with few kills, solid stealth gameplay!
Maybe try the Styx games? They’re on sale quite regularly. I liked the first one a lot!
The original game Styx game is quite janky in my opinion, with random frame drops and finicky character actions. It wasn’t for me, but thank you for the recommendation.
Damn, I should really go back and play this. Bet it runs great on Steam Deck too!
That’s a great idea. Lemme add that to the queue. Right after I finish Hades 2 and baldur’s gate, and expedition 33 and…
Hey, those are on my list too!
Played dishonored 1 and 2 earlier this year on my steam deck and they played great. Also FYI - month ago I grabbed expedition 33 and started it - as someone who loved ff turn based games and baldur’s gate and turn based pathfinder, I found it extremely boring. Quit playing after forcing myself to continue for 15 hours thinking it would get better.
Probably just me, but maybe look into it more before making the buy.
Yeah I honestly have so many games that I haven’t played that I’m going to wait for a big sale on it. I’m always so behind the times that I never get anything at release.
Dishonored is my favorite video game series of all time! I play that thing every year, lol. Love the stealth challenges and all the ways you can approach things. I really enjoy the sequels too, and this year I’ve finally gotten into the books. Fantastic game. Also they leaned heavy into the style, so 13 years later it still looks decent. Not nearly as aged-looking as “realistic” graphics from that time. Those still look decent too, all things considered. But stylized graphics tend to fit their current limitations better than pushing for realism.
THERE ARE BOOKS!?
And a few comics!
Novels
Dishonored: The Corroded Man
This takes place about a year before Dishonored 2, and POV characters include Emily and Corvo. I really liked this one. Especially how it expanded on the relationship between Corvo and Emily. Some neat character insights too. Emily is canonically a beefcake.Dishonored: The Return of Daud
This one follows Daud during the events of Dishonored 2 as he looks for the Twin-bladed Knife. Really cool concept that is once again brought down by Daud and his Daud-ness. “Woe is me, I killed the empress! Who can I push this blame upon to heal the hole in my black heart?!”. I’m making my way through though. It does show a bit more of Gristol that is outside of Dunwall.Dishonored: The Veiled Terror
I haven’t gotten here yet. It follows Billy Lurk after Death of the Outsider, and how she deals with the consequences of the ending of that game.Comics
I have not read these at all yet, and they may be hard to find.
Dishonored: The Wyrmwood Deciet
Dishonored: The Peeress and the Price
There may be more, but those are the only ones I’ve heard of.
My poor bookshelf…
So good, story isn’t bad and didn’t really follow. The gameplay was unique and fun.
