No, Catholics really believe that those crackers and wine are physically transformed into the flesh and blood of christ. Other christians treat it as symbolic, but catholics are very literal about it.
They don’t teach that it’s literally physically flesh and literally physically blood, it’s still wine and a bread cracker thing, it’s just that they also now have the spiritual essence and properties of the J-man’s divinity. Like, most catholics would be confused that anyone would draw a comparison to say cannibalism, because it’s not literal in the physical sense, just the spiritual. Which admittedly probably doesn’t make much sense unless you’re catholic.
Source: raised in catholic town by catholic family with twelve years of catholic school in which I actually read the bible and the catechism, all of which explain why I’m an atheist. But it’s funny seeing all the (admittedly understandable) misconceptions people have about what catholics believe.
I remember very specifically that learning this official belief being one of the things that made me start questioning my religion. Like I can very clearly see that no transformation is happening so, it started making me question everything else they were telling me.
Catholic religion teachers teach catechism incorrectly all the time, literally every one I’ve had has contradicted another. I have my understanding of transubstantiation from conversations with priests and franciscan friars. The whole concept requires that no physical change occurs. The essence or concept of the bread and wine are infused magically with Jesus divinity and his new covenant, it’s a whole thing, but anyone genuinely thinking cannibalism is fundamentally misunderstanding an admittedly contradictory concept.
Yeah, that sounds like a lot of rationalization so they don’t have to admit they are participating in ritual cannibalism.
Transubstatiation means that is is NOT symbolic or metaphoric, but that the “essence” is truly the body and blood of Christ, so it really is cannibalism - if you believe in religious magic. I don’t, so I don’t truly believe it’s cannibalism, just a mid-service snack, but devout Catholics do believe in religious magic, so they do believe they are being Cannibals, even if they try to pretend that it’s something else.
Technically it’s the whole change of the substance of the Eucharist which is some sneaky wordplay. It’s even specifically stated the outward characteristics remain unchanged so it’s metaphorical ritualistic cannibalism at most, and even that is a reductive surface level misunderstanding. Any catholic would think you’re kinda dumb for thinking the communion is even related to cannibalism. It’s not considered actual flesh and blood, it’s magic bread and wine that’s magically infused with divinity so when you eat and drink it you more or less reswear your allegiance to the J-dog and his socialist ways. Don’t get me wrong, it’s all still bonkers dumb and logically inconsistent but no catholic theologian will take seriously the claim that it’s actual flesh and actual blood.
Especially since it very obviously does not physically turn into flesh and blood. Any priest with half an eye would see that. It’s reconciling it with what transubstantiation is supposed to do in doctrine that’s the hard part.
Well the doctrine specifies the whole no outward characteristics changing part so it’s just a contradiction, but faith and logic are mutually exclusive.
I don’t understand why anybody does communion or baptism or any of it. I mean, I do because it’s all bonding and stuff, but if you look at the religion on paper, all you need to do is accept Jesus and you’re saved. You don’t even have to go to church!
Yeah I think that’s one of the evangelical branches that play that shit which frankly explains a lot. Ironically most christian denominations think catholics are heretics and idolators, again due to totally reasonable misunderstandings about Mary, the saints, and the whole trinity shenanigan, even though catholics are like the OG J-dude acolytes. It’s all pretty interesting in an academic sense but jobs of horrifying these beliefs are dictating government policy.
Nothing in catholicism can be taken at face value. Growing up Catholic, you learn obfuscation, and to work through abstractions of ideas rather than literal ones. Anyone considering the literal words in the bible was considered some kind of idiot zealot barbarian. Frankly we looked down on the rest of the christians who were limited to what was written on the paper. Only the priests could translate the text into what we actually truly believed, and thats what they were good for-- telling us what was meant rather than what was actually written.
Its a system that worked out great when the priests had charisma and could sell it, but when they lacked that personal touch it all fell apart pretty quickly. Being a catholic priest looks hard.
Religion has always been a business plan wrapped up in series of brainwashing techniques. Mystery->Answers used to the a commodity. Not religious? Ostracized from society. If you didn’t know, you paid in, if you did know, you kept your mouth shut and paid in. It was easier to be that showman back in the day, the only mystery left is existential dread, we’re disillusioned with society and government.
No, Catholics really believe that those crackers and wine are physically transformed into the flesh and blood of christ. Other christians treat it as symbolic, but catholics are very literal about it.
Which means they are openly participating in ritual cannibalism, but Atheists are the weirdos?
Seriously, we should start referring to Catholics as Cannibalists.
They don’t teach that it’s literally physically flesh and literally physically blood, it’s still wine and a bread cracker thing, it’s just that they also now have the spiritual essence and properties of the J-man’s divinity. Like, most catholics would be confused that anyone would draw a comparison to say cannibalism, because it’s not literal in the physical sense, just the spiritual. Which admittedly probably doesn’t make much sense unless you’re catholic.
Source: raised in catholic town by catholic family with twelve years of catholic school in which I actually read the bible and the catechism, all of which explain why I’m an atheist. But it’s funny seeing all the (admittedly understandable) misconceptions people have about what catholics believe.
From the outside: it’s all fucking crazy no matter how you spin it.
Oh abso-fuckin-lutely. Too many people believe their imaginary friend is real.
I believe that transubstantiation is supposed to mean that it quite literally becomes his flesh and blood
You were taught incorrectly then, I grew up catholic as well (also now atheist) and it was made very clear to me that it is not symbolic, it is an actual transformation. This is directly from the US conference of catholic bishops website: Is the Eucharist a symbol? The transformed bread and wine are truly the Body and Blood of Christ and are not merely symbols.
I remember very specifically that learning this official belief being one of the things that made me start questioning my religion. Like I can very clearly see that no transformation is happening so, it started making me question everything else they were telling me.
Catholic religion teachers teach catechism incorrectly all the time, literally every one I’ve had has contradicted another. I have my understanding of transubstantiation from conversations with priests and franciscan friars. The whole concept requires that no physical change occurs. The essence or concept of the bread and wine are infused magically with Jesus divinity and his new covenant, it’s a whole thing, but anyone genuinely thinking cannibalism is fundamentally misunderstanding an admittedly contradictory concept.
https://bustedhalo.com/ministry-resources/why-is-transubstantiation-not-considered-canibalism/
https://www.catholic.com/qa/can-transubstantiation-be-reasonably-taken-literally
Yeah, that sounds like a lot of rationalization so they don’t have to admit they are participating in ritual cannibalism.
Transubstatiation means that is is NOT symbolic or metaphoric, but that the “essence” is truly the body and blood of Christ, so it really is cannibalism - if you believe in religious magic. I don’t, so I don’t truly believe it’s cannibalism, just a mid-service snack, but devout Catholics do believe in religious magic, so they do believe they are being Cannibals, even if they try to pretend that it’s something else.
Technically it’s the whole change of the substance of the Eucharist which is some sneaky wordplay. It’s even specifically stated the outward characteristics remain unchanged so it’s metaphorical ritualistic cannibalism at most, and even that is a reductive surface level misunderstanding. Any catholic would think you’re kinda dumb for thinking the communion is even related to cannibalism. It’s not considered actual flesh and blood, it’s magic bread and wine that’s magically infused with divinity so when you eat and drink it you more or less reswear your allegiance to the J-dog and his socialist ways. Don’t get me wrong, it’s all still bonkers dumb and logically inconsistent but no catholic theologian will take seriously the claim that it’s actual flesh and actual blood.
Especially since it very obviously does not physically turn into flesh and blood. Any priest with half an eye would see that. It’s reconciling it with what transubstantiation is supposed to do in doctrine that’s the hard part.
Well the doctrine specifies the whole no outward characteristics changing part so it’s just a contradiction, but faith and logic are mutually exclusive.
I don’t understand why anybody does communion or baptism or any of it. I mean, I do because it’s all bonding and stuff, but if you look at the religion on paper, all you need to do is accept Jesus and you’re saved. You don’t even have to go to church!
That depends on the denomination, like that doesn’t fly in catholicism.
I forgot that different denominations have diffident requirements. I always thought it was pretty sketchy having the barrier to entry be that low.
Yeah I think that’s one of the evangelical branches that play that shit which frankly explains a lot. Ironically most christian denominations think catholics are heretics and idolators, again due to totally reasonable misunderstandings about Mary, the saints, and the whole trinity shenanigan, even though catholics are like the OG J-dude acolytes. It’s all pretty interesting in an academic sense but jobs of horrifying these beliefs are dictating government policy.
*pretend to believe
Nothing in catholicism can be taken at face value. Growing up Catholic, you learn obfuscation, and to work through abstractions of ideas rather than literal ones. Anyone considering the literal words in the bible was considered some kind of idiot zealot barbarian. Frankly we looked down on the rest of the christians who were limited to what was written on the paper. Only the priests could translate the text into what we actually truly believed, and thats what they were good for-- telling us what was meant rather than what was actually written.
Its a system that worked out great when the priests had charisma and could sell it, but when they lacked that personal touch it all fell apart pretty quickly. Being a catholic priest looks hard.
Religion has always been a business plan wrapped up in series of brainwashing techniques. Mystery->Answers used to the a commodity. Not religious? Ostracized from society. If you didn’t know, you paid in, if you did know, you kept your mouth shut and paid in. It was easier to be that showman back in the day, the only mystery left is existential dread, we’re disillusioned with society and government.
yeah I know: just saying most Catholics I know are just pretending to believe so they don’t get ostracised 😅
I’m sure some actually believe it, but they’re definitely in the minority where I’m from.