I read somewhere that one part of going through the AA (USA) process revolves around channelling the person towards a sense of belief in a higher power; for the already religious, it basically stirs a new found sense, to those without belief it can essentially become into forced “evangelisation”, even if not into a formal belief.
I’ve known a couple of hardcore alcoholics, both in and outside the family, and those who underwent detox, here (Portugal), it involves medication to aid in withdrawal, paired with mental health aid and educating the person on what the alcohol is doing to them. We have two singers, both former heavy drinkers, that are strongly vocal against alcohol abuse; one even states he is not “healed” but “in a never ending healing process”.
So, what is all this about throwing people into belief for getting out of an addiction? Medicine is a thing, with proven results.
What you have heard about AA is true, I just want to make a couple clarifications. The first, or one of the first, steps of the alcoholics anonymous famous 12 step program is to submit yourself to a higher power. , but nowadays when it comes up they are quick to emphasize that this does not have to be God. It can be a rock or a pet or object, but their system is built off of that. That you must make yourself accountable to something and let it take over some of the decision making responsibilities. I’ve never been able to see this as anything other than religious thinking and feel it is a distinction without meaning, but if you end up discussing this with proponents of the system be ready for that curve ball. Secondly, to call it the USA system is not correct. It is just one addiction treatment option, though given US religiousity it is the biggest and most will known. Many others are also essentially the same process but a different organization. Where things get tricky is that people that are charged with crimes involving drugs or alcohol are offered leniency in sentencing on condition that they go through an approved addiction program, especially in remote areas AA is sometimes the only option. This has been challenged by atheists and I believe that the courts always end up allowing for them to use a non religious program, but that will only be the people that can afford to make another legal case based on their principals and are able to find an alternative addiction program to enroll in in their area.
in the US religion, specifically Christians, have a corner on “healing”.
want to talk to a therapist? they’ll always bring up God or a higher power.
want to talk to a doctor? they work at a facility that’s affiliated with a religious doctrine.
need to have surgery? it’s a a faith based hospital.
want to get sober? enjoy the calming sounds of the Bible being thumped over your head.
now, there are exceptions to this, but the majority stands that religious belief is a cornerstone to all health and medical facilities in America.
it’s really fucked up when you think about it. Imagine going in for surgery and someone comes in to start praying for a successful operation. like…that doesn’t give me the highest vote of confidence in the knowledge and talents of the staff that’s literally going to cut me open from belly to sternum and peak around at what even I have never seen.
That’s true. My wife has been sober for more than a year now. She went to AA meetings and did therapy. We are both atheist, and she really hated the religious part of the AA program, but talking with people that went through similar experiences really helped her.
I know AA meetings tended to occur in church basements or meeting rooms and assumed that part was to encourage the use of that resource. Was that the case for the meetings you know of?
Some church administrators are surprisingly non altruistic unless you can point to it being faith-based.
It was indeed in a building that belonged to a church.
The whole AA program (the 12 steps book) is very explicitly based on the idea that the only way you can recover from your addiction is through god.
Addiction is mostly away to avoid thinking or feeling about something. “Getting better” is a combination of resolving current situations, tolerating the internal distress, and learning new, healthy ways to deal.
I’m not a fan of bundling this under “medicine” since I think it has as much more to do with philosophy, spirituality, and psycology than biochemistry, but adding medicine to control physical cravings certainly helps.
for some people it is simply easier to deal with hard things when there is a higher power as external authority to lean against. this can be misused for bad but also used creatively for good. mind has its ways of shaping itself. you can delude yourself into depression (or addiction) or out of it. when there is nothing inherently good or bad in the world the world can become quite meaningless, don’t you think?
Absolutely! Unadorned existential nihilism is a luxury of the comfortable. People who suffer need more, maybe not religion, but something to keep them from autodeleting.
Really recommend Britt’s No Nonsense Spirituality on YouTube (or wherever you mirror YouTube) for those looking for the baby in the bathwater of religion.
Good and evil are relative. Those are social constructs our species has been reviewing basically from our inception. I’ll grant that, as an individual, feeling alone and small, dealing with overwhelming issues may feel as something one can’t overcome by oneself but resorting, immediately, to something outside oneself? It is as dangerous. And I like to think my entire line of ancestors is watching me; sometimes, that feeling of having a personal fan club feels great. But they won’t be solving my problems; they’re dead.
I read somewhere that one part of going through the AA (USA) process revolves around channelling the person towards a sense of belief in a higher power; for the already religious, it basically stirs a new found sense, to those without belief it can essentially become into forced “evangelisation”, even if not into a formal belief.
I’ve known a couple of hardcore alcoholics, both in and outside the family, and those who underwent detox, here (Portugal), it involves medication to aid in withdrawal, paired with mental health aid and educating the person on what the alcohol is doing to them. We have two singers, both former heavy drinkers, that are strongly vocal against alcohol abuse; one even states he is not “healed” but “in a never ending healing process”.
So, what is all this about throwing people into belief for getting out of an addiction? Medicine is a thing, with proven results.
What you have heard about AA is true, I just want to make a couple clarifications. The first, or one of the first, steps of the alcoholics anonymous famous 12 step program is to submit yourself to a higher power. , but nowadays when it comes up they are quick to emphasize that this does not have to be God. It can be a rock or a pet or object, but their system is built off of that. That you must make yourself accountable to something and let it take over some of the decision making responsibilities. I’ve never been able to see this as anything other than religious thinking and feel it is a distinction without meaning, but if you end up discussing this with proponents of the system be ready for that curve ball. Secondly, to call it the USA system is not correct. It is just one addiction treatment option, though given US religiousity it is the biggest and most will known. Many others are also essentially the same process but a different organization. Where things get tricky is that people that are charged with crimes involving drugs or alcohol are offered leniency in sentencing on condition that they go through an approved addiction program, especially in remote areas AA is sometimes the only option. This has been challenged by atheists and I believe that the courts always end up allowing for them to use a non religious program, but that will only be the people that can afford to make another legal case based on their principals and are able to find an alternative addiction program to enroll in in their area.
in the US religion, specifically Christians, have a corner on “healing”.
want to talk to a therapist? they’ll always bring up God or a higher power.
want to talk to a doctor? they work at a facility that’s affiliated with a religious doctrine.
need to have surgery? it’s a a faith based hospital.
want to get sober? enjoy the calming sounds of the Bible being thumped over your head.
now, there are exceptions to this, but the majority stands that religious belief is a cornerstone to all health and medical facilities in America.
it’s really fucked up when you think about it. Imagine going in for surgery and someone comes in to start praying for a successful operation. like…that doesn’t give me the highest vote of confidence in the knowledge and talents of the staff that’s literally going to cut me open from belly to sternum and peak around at what even I have never seen.
That’s true. My wife has been sober for more than a year now. She went to AA meetings and did therapy. We are both atheist, and she really hated the religious part of the AA program, but talking with people that went through similar experiences really helped her.
I know AA meetings tended to occur in church basements or meeting rooms and assumed that part was to encourage the use of that resource. Was that the case for the meetings you know of?
Some church administrators are surprisingly non altruistic unless you can point to it being faith-based.
It was indeed in a building that belonged to a church.
The whole AA program (the 12 steps book) is very explicitly based on the idea that the only way you can recover from your addiction is through god.
Fun fact: you can get the same belief effect AA uses to fight addiction by giving someone LSD.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_Dreams_(book)
instructions unclear. am now addicted to LS…ohhhh pretty butterflies!
Exactly zero people in the history of humanity got addicted to LSD. I’m not joking.
And you don’t hallucinate beings into existence when you’re on it, just abstract colors and distortions.
Addiction is mostly away to avoid thinking or feeling about something. “Getting better” is a combination of resolving current situations, tolerating the internal distress, and learning new, healthy ways to deal.
I’m not a fan of bundling this under “medicine” since I think it has as much more to do with philosophy, spirituality, and psycology than biochemistry, but adding medicine to control physical cravings certainly helps.
for some people it is simply easier to deal with hard things when there is a higher power as external authority to lean against. this can be misused for bad but also used creatively for good. mind has its ways of shaping itself. you can delude yourself into depression (or addiction) or out of it. when there is nothing inherently good or bad in the world the world can become quite meaningless, don’t you think?
Absolutely! Unadorned existential nihilism is a luxury of the comfortable. People who suffer need more, maybe not religion, but something to keep them from autodeleting.
Really recommend Britt’s No Nonsense Spirituality on YouTube (or wherever you mirror YouTube) for those looking for the baby in the bathwater of religion.
Good and evil are relative. Those are social constructs our species has been reviewing basically from our inception. I’ll grant that, as an individual, feeling alone and small, dealing with overwhelming issues may feel as something one can’t overcome by oneself but resorting, immediately, to something outside oneself? It is as dangerous. And I like to think my entire line of ancestors is watching me; sometimes, that feeling of having a personal fan club feels great. But they won’t be solving my problems; they’re dead.