What do you call it if I don’t like capitalism, but also don’t think it’s even possible for any governing body to remain both competent and non-corrupt for long enough to make a centrally managed system work?
If you’re in favor of a balance between a free market and regulation to cover capitalism damages on people, you may be social democrat, like Bernie Sanders and most of the left in EU.
There is absolutely no way that a complete move away from capitalism will ever take place. Even the so called “communist” countries are just state driven capitalism.
Number one most tiring aspect of politics on Lemmy is the delusional level of “the o my way to improve lives is the complete destruction of capitalism”
Hold on, no, you don’t get to just make such a huge broad sweeping claim as no one will ever move away from capitalism like it’s an universally agreed upon truth.
Ok, I’d love to hear of a modern example of a system that isn’t based on some form of capitalism. If the broad statement being thrown around that capitalism in any form is inherently evil, what is the alternative?
John Holloway - Crack Capitalism: How can we rebel against the capitalist system? John Holloway argues that by creating, cracks, fractures and fissures that forge spaces of rebellion and disrupt the current economic order.
S.D. Chrostowska - Utopia in the Age of Survival focuses on resisting that kind of political cynicism and defeatism, attempting to address humanity’s existential challenges, the most totalizing and dominant of which being capitalism.
And yet none of these systems exist in any modern country in the world… maybe because they are all good on paper, but impossible to implement in the real world because they won’t work.
And really, you’re linking Lenin? Communists are just naive. It will never work in real life, and every time it’s been tried, it fails, or is perverted to be CINO.
None of what systems? Huh? I know you won’t engage with the critical thinking it takes, but for the reader: capitalism is just the last few hundred years’ new iteration of the domination that’s been carried out by those with resources against/using those without/with less. The milquetoast liberal refrain “it will never work,” “it’s been tried” drfeatism is pathetic naivete at best, intentional psyop to breed nihilism and maintain the status quo at worst.
There is a difference between possible and will the state allow it. Not only is it possible. It’s happened several times. But no the state will do everything in it’s power to keep its power. Regardless of who suffers.
I haven’t read that book, but it sounds like he’s taking the starting point of my opinions, and then going way too far with the conclusions.
I think part of the problem is that people seem to view these systems as absolutes that that we have to go all in with and apply to everything. I think they should be thought of more like tools. You apply the right tools to the right situations.
You need to learn the difference between market economy and capitalism. And not to mention anti capitalism doesn’t automatically mean centrally managed. You are making a false dichotomy/straw man
What do you call it if I don’t like capitalism, but also don’t think it’s even possible for any governing body to remain both competent and non-corrupt for long enough to make a centrally managed system work?
Socialism doesn’t have to be centrally planned.
If you’re in favor of a balance between a free market and regulation to cover capitalism damages on people, you may be social democrat, like Bernie Sanders and most of the left in EU.
Which is still capitalism
There is absolutely no way that a complete move away from capitalism will ever take place. Even the so called “communist” countries are just state driven capitalism.
Number one most tiring aspect of politics on Lemmy is the delusional level of “the o my way to improve lives is the complete destruction of capitalism”
Hold on, no, you don’t get to just make such a huge broad sweeping claim as no one will ever move away from capitalism like it’s an universally agreed upon truth.
Ok, I’d love to hear of a modern example of a system that isn’t based on some form of capitalism. If the broad statement being thrown around that capitalism in any form is inherently evil, what is the alternative?
Vladimir Ilyich Lenin - What Is To Be Done?
Vladimir Ilyich Lenin - Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism
Horkheimer & Adorno - Dialectic of Enlightenment
Mark Fisher - Capitalist Realism: Is There No Alternative?
John Holloway - Crack Capitalism: How can we rebel against the capitalist system? John Holloway argues that by creating, cracks, fractures and fissures that forge spaces of rebellion and disrupt the current economic order.
S.D. Chrostowska - Utopia in the Age of Survival focuses on resisting that kind of political cynicism and defeatism, attempting to address humanity’s existential challenges, the most totalizing and dominant of which being capitalism.
And yet none of these systems exist in any modern country in the world… maybe because they are all good on paper, but impossible to implement in the real world because they won’t work.
And really, you’re linking Lenin? Communists are just naive. It will never work in real life, and every time it’s been tried, it fails, or is perverted to be CINO.
None of what systems? Huh? I know you won’t engage with the critical thinking it takes, but for the reader: capitalism is just the last few hundred years’ new iteration of the domination that’s been carried out by those with resources against/using those without/with less. The milquetoast liberal refrain “it will never work,” “it’s been tried” drfeatism is pathetic naivete at best, intentional psyop to breed nihilism and maintain the status quo at worst.
There is a difference between possible and will the state allow it. Not only is it possible. It’s happened several times. But no the state will do everything in it’s power to keep its power. Regardless of who suffers.
Anarchist, mayhaps
You don’t need central management. You just need to have workers keep the proceeds of their labor instead of uninvolved shareholders and “owners”.
Central management is still needed to make global plans, like in production or healthcare etc.
Why not local communities that feed up into larger representation groups?
hiw would you call the largest representation group? Isn’t it central management?
I wasn’t imagining something that just makes decisions that are handed down. They collate and evaluate the decisions and input from below.
We actually do have a term for that. It’s called capitalist realism.
I haven’t read that book, but it sounds like he’s taking the starting point of my opinions, and then going way too far with the conclusions.
I think part of the problem is that people seem to view these systems as absolutes that that we have to go all in with and apply to everything. I think they should be thought of more like tools. You apply the right tools to the right situations.
Dangerously nuanced thought that….
Like a capitalism tool? Or a capitalist realism perspective tool?
For the latter I agree, good to have many lenses to look at things through.
It doesn’t include attempts to move beyond capitalism.
anarchist.
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Market socialism used to be a thing.
You need to learn the difference between market economy and capitalism. And not to mention anti capitalism doesn’t automatically mean centrally managed. You are making a false dichotomy/straw man