I saw a post that talked about racism towards people and when I talked about it the response I got was very heated and a person even called lemmy.world a community of ‘hitlerites’
I have been around for a week or so and this is my first time seeing such explicit vulgar reaction towards another community, is this a one-off or should I block hexbear?
Hexbear, lemmygrad.ml and lemmy.ml are the “Tankie Triad”.
Hexbear is the worst most extreme of them and lemmy.ml is the least which is why they’ve managed to avoid getting defederated from world (either that or because they’re like the third largest instance behind only .world and SJW)
Hexbear is pretty widely defederated
A lot of .ml users and communities are there just because it was the only big instance much earlier on. I’m in no way a tankie but still use .ml a lot (a community I run is on there) because it was the first one I made and i’m too lazy to look into new instances or switch.
yeah the other two I definately agree with, but lemmy.ml is mostly tame.
It’s all under the surface, the admins, mods and a good portion of users have just as extreme viewpoints, but tend to walk the line quite carefully to avoid being defederated by .world
That’s just not true. They don’t give a shit about .world. They don’t even have to give a shit about .world. They’ve got plenty of traffic to manage without .world. It’s just stupid to do so over some squabbles
Plus, everyone secretly loves the animosity. Like how the Dutch are always making fun of Belgians, but if anyone else ever says anything bad about Belgians, they’ll get a kick in the nuts from the Dutch.
That’s just not true. They don’t give a shit about .world. They don’t even have to give a shit about .world. They’ve got plenty of traffic to manage without .world.
You must not have spent much time over there, go into any .ml threads where .world gets brought up and they’ll shit all over us for being a CIA front, US State Department Mouthpiece, nothin but bots, “Reddit 2.0”, “fake leftist”, front for the US military, to stupid to realize we’re just digesting propaganda and on and on and on
But yet, they won’t defederate and they get awfully mad whenever someone does bring up .world defederating from them.
So I ask you, if they’re so full with traffic to manage, then why do they not defederate from .world?
My guess is as good as any, maybe it’s because tankies need someone to tank against. Can’t be a racist without other races around. Can’t be a misogynist with women around. Can’t be a transphobe without trans people around. Can’t be a .ml tankie without .world people around.
About the traffic, they (used to be or are they still?) the default instance on join-lemmy.org . Thats how a lot of people joined that instance and that’s how they have gained a lot of users and general communities. Maybe that has changed though, I really don’t care enough to actually check current metrics.
All I heard of before is that lemmygrad is more “extreme” than hexbear? My instance defederates from lemmygrad, but federates with hexbear, I don’t know the exact reason for this though.
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Huh yea that’s kinda weird, but it’s also fairly subjective or perhaps your instance admins “straw that broke the camels back” just happened to be coming from lemmygrad at the time. But still weird to defederate from one and not the other regardless of which one was first lol
It’s been a while since my instance was federated with either of them, but I remember grad being more extreme in their beliefs and hb being more… annoying. The hb folks did a ton of brigading and picking fights. Maybe they chilled out since then, but the .world threads were exhausting to read with hbs being assholes in every single one, including things that had absolutely nothing to do with politics.
I think it’s the other way round. They share similiar politics but lemmygrad users don’t have the same abrasive commenting style.
I would block hexbear. I’ve done it server-wide. They are mostly very loud trolls pretending to be communists. Some could be actual communists, but I don’t buy anyone actually wanting to be in such a toxic environment and believe what they claim to believe.
They’re “communist” if you believe that supporting the CCP is “communist” and that the usa is “capitalist”. It’s all just political tribalism to them, that’s why they are also anti-Liberal and at times very anti-Democracy. The actual definitions of any of these political identities is completely lost on them, all of these words only mean west or east to them.
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User blocking also doesn’t block votes so they’ll also still influence your feed.
Hexbear, lemmygrad and (in great part) lemmy.ml are tankie instances.
They basically deny any crimes of Stalin, Mao etc…
I mean Mao greatly regretted his plans and was very sad they didnt work, he went onto become a vegan and grow his own food as to not get the food meant for the workers
Responsible for estimated 40 million deaths on the low end.
“Oopsie, my b.”
All is forgiven.
Life expectancy doubled under Mao.
Life expectancy tanked from 40s to the 30s under Mao in 1960 because of the famine. It went back up because Mao took a step back from governing and moderates introduced economic reforms to save the economy that Mao hated by the way and life expectancy shot up.
If I kick someone in the teeth then a dentist gives them implants, they technically have a better smile because of me. Are they gonna give me credit for it? Doubtful. Likewise, don’t give Mao credit for someone else fixing a mess he created.
Mao introduced some terrible measures, for sure, but it’s a long shot to say he’s “Responsible for” every death or imply it was at all deliberate. Famines in China were more widespread and frequent pre-Mao.
It shows he tried his best and was sad when he failed, he cared for his people
Mao played a personal role in organising the mass repressions and established a system of execution quotas,[175] which were often exceeded.[165] He defended these killings as necessary for the securing of power.[176]
You ever love a group of people so much you personally set an execution quota on them?
So all hitler had to do was say he regretted his plans and all would be fine?
Hitler was a vegetarian, so half as good as Mao who was vegan, obviously.
Hitler killed them on purpose
so did Mao, see this comment
I’m sorry if I sound tone deaf I am new to Lemmy .~.
Welcome to lemmy! For the most part lemmy is nice place to be. You will still see the occasional crazy though. Defiantly not something you see all the time. If you find a user, community or instance popping off a bunch of crazy the best thing to do is block them. You won’t be missing anything without them.
Welcome and there is zero need to apologize. Some people (and group of them) can be a real pain. Once you have learned how to filter them out, it’s a nice place with nice people. There is no shame in blocking them, a bit like I would not let someone enter my home so they shout their nonsense into my ears, or make their mess on the carpet.
Once again, welcome ;)
I nearly left lemmy because of Hexbear. Learning they could be blocked salvaged the platform for me. It’s not just you - they are pretty widely reviled.
Welcome !
Welcome to
City 17Lemmy!Howdy! Can confirm that most people and places I’ve seen on the Fediverse are lovely… Except Hexbear. They’re one wall of cognitive dissonance away from being right wingers and constantly complaining that liberals are all lying to themselves about their liberalism. That THEY are the TRUE left wingers.
Weird, because I find them also lovely.
You likely have never been a target of their vitriol. Consider yourself lucky.
block hexbear, lemmygrad, and lemmy.ml. And any user named “UniversalMonk” on any instance. You’ll thank me later.
I’d probably be more selective about blocking users from lemmy.ml, but I’m a bit biased in the question given the server I chose when I joined Lemmy
my first account was on lemmy.ml because it was one of the top options on one of the apps I used. it stopped working with jerboa which why I switched to lemmy.world…
Yeah, I’m an .ml user because it was one of the top instances when I first joined and idk how to switch it??
You would just create a new account. Take it as a chance to prevent too much personal info from piling up under one pseudonym.
Gotta catch’em all
“Oh no, block the people that want everyone’s needs to be met”
fun fact: you can want everyone’s needs to be met while also being allowed to criticize China, Russia, and while not acting like an insufferable twat. Wild, I know.
It’s true. And all those things happen on Hexbear all the time. So I don’t know what you’re talking about.
“not acting like an insufferable twat”
hexbear
yeah no. Funny, good try, but no.
Note: being on Lemmy for about a year, I didn’t live through the early days of this place. Here’s what I can recollect, as neutrally given as possible.
TL;DR The recent conflicts between two politically different groups on Lemmy have radicalized many people, and many Hexbear residents in particular. Unless you are to discuss the far-left ideas and are very radical about disadvantaged groups, you are safe to block it.
Hexbear is a far-left (as in actually communist) anti-discrimination community, initially more of a safe haven to promote equality and foster a healthy and welcoming place for leftists to come together.
With core developers of Lemmy also being far-left, Hexbear naturally fitted the landscape along with the official Lemmy.ml, heavy far-left Lemmygrad.ml and others.
As time went on, however, all sorts of left-leaning and apolitical folks, not just far-left, came to the platform, filling other instances like Lemmy.world (now the most populated of them all), sh.itjust.works and many others.
As a result, Lemmy has two groups of people with radically different political views: one is a group of more or less organized far-left, and the other is everyone else, most commonly liberals. This distinction has caused a lot of conflicts and heated discussions based on political adherence.
Most notable case is latest US elections. The far left side generally called not to vote Democrat as Biden has failed to deliver on many of his promises and empowered Israel to commit war crimes in Palestine, while the liberal audience called to vote Democrat to not let Republicans take the lead, which may arguably lead to an even worse outcome than unaccountable Dems can make.
This divide has raised a lot of mutual hostility, brigading, and uncivil behavior, which has radicalized many on both sides of the conflict, the consequences of which you have got to experience.
What to do with that is up to you to decide. Hexbear is very politically uniform and very political overall, so if you’re not here to discuss communism, you won’t lose much and will gain additional peace of mind.
This is by far the best and most informative answer. The only thing it’s missing as another couple commenters pointed out is hexbear is all about their oversized memes and emojis, making anytime you happen upon one of their posts extremely conspicuous (even if politics aren’t being discussed).
The oversized emoji bug was fixed, by the way. They display normally now on other instances.
Also Hexbear and Lemmygrad were populated by r/chapotraphouse and r/GenZedong users respectively when those subreddits got banned, which happened before the main Reddit exodus that populated instances like .world
I’m being a little pedantic here, but “far left (as in actually communist)” wasn’t a thing until these recent online debates and forming groups started putting labels on groups and putting them into boxes. Communists are not necessarily left, nor far left. It feels a bit weird to ‘put’ them anywhere. That said, I know nothing about hexbear or this little group on Lemmy and how they identify…
It is unclear what this excerpt is meant to demonstrate.
By default, the terms “left” and “right” are describing the level of economic equality/freedom in a given society. The left call for economic equality and redistribution of resources, either through peaceful cooperation and abundance or through heavy state intervention, the right stands for private property above equality and freedom to act in personal financial interest.
Communists hold economic equality as paramount and vital for society, and put it above all else; in a perfect communist world, everyone always has access to everything that is available in an economy, and as such, there is no money (you can already take anything you need) and no point to privatize anything as there’s no revenue to speak of.
Thereby, communism is far left.
I assume the rest of it would explain how Stalinism created an economic and social heirarchy at express odds with real Marxism but that still leaves you with real communists being the left. The author is ultimately crying about humanity’s insistence that words mean things and trying to take the word communist away from communists.
communists are on the left, not sure the page you linked is making the case for anything other than American political scientists being extremely unserious
Cold War brain rot just ruined a generation of thought. My dad was a never-Trumper that called Trump a communist.
What do you believe “leftism” means? I can’t see a world where an ideology based on public ownership, collectivization, and working class liberation could be seen not as left.
A label, in all honesty. Historically they’re not left nor right nor middle. They can have ideologies of many, but too long to get into here. I was being pedantic because it’s a slight bug of mine when they are labelled and boxed like that. For example Nikolai Bukharin and Alexei Rykov (Bukharinists) and others like Joseph Stalin were not considered left but were communist.
Bukharin was considered “right” from the standpoint of a far-left ideology, as a point of comparison to the standard party line. That’s like saying -5 is a positive number because it is closer to positive numbers than -10.
Bro tf?
I’ll do you one better, why is Hexbear??
Hexbear.net is a Left-Unity instance populated mainly by Marxists and Anarchists. They generally don’t get along with Lemmy.world, whose admins defederated from the major Marxist-aligned instances.
Whether you block Hexbear is up to you, I enjoy my time there a lot but it’s also because I’m a Marxist. The ones saying they are “pretending” to be Leftist never seem to be able to explain why a large group of people would all ironically have theory reading groups and ironically support trans rights for years, even before federating with anyone else. What would they have to gain?
If I were you, I’d ask on an instance actually federated with them. You’ll get different perspectives than you will here, which is always the case when it comes to controversial topics like Marxism, where opinion varies greatly from instance to instance.
The issue with hexbear isn’t Marxism or anarchism or communism, it’s apologism for violent authoritarian regimes to the point of insisting on an “alternative facts” version of “history”.
Alternative facts is when you refuse to admit you were wrong after carrying water for a single source white supremacist even when all the major media platforms that boosted the claim dropped it years ago.
So for years, as a ‘good leftist’, you continue repeating blood libel while you scream at people to support a capitalist committing genocide.
I really can’t tell what you are talking about.
Adrian Zenz
I really don’t think they are a left-unity instance considering that they get very upset and unpleasant to talk to if you don’t support authoritarianism or their alternative “facts.”
Like I’m cool with all sorts of different leftist viewpoints and I think it’s necessary that we support each other, but I draw the line at authoritarianism and rewriting history.
Anarchists are explicitly welcome, so authoritarianism is definitely not a requirement. And what “alternative facts”?
Things like the denial of the tiananmen square massacre or claiming that North Korea is a free and prosperous nation, both of which I have seen with my own two eyes on hexbear.
While I am not an anarchist, generally I am cool with them. Who I am not cool with are Marxist-Leninists, which are authoritarian.
From the wikipedia article on Marxist-Leninists:
In the words of historians Silvio Pons and Robert Service, elections are “generally not competitive, with voters having no choice or only a strictly limited choice”. Generally, when alternative candidates have been allowed to stand for election, they have not been allowed to promote very different political views.
61·2 months agoThe people of the soviet union, at least as far as Pat Sloan experienced in ~1937, had the most limited choice: any person
I have, while working in the Soviet Union, participated in an election. I, too, had a right to vote, as I was a working member of the community, and nationality and citizenship is no bar to electoral rights. The procedure was extremely simple. A general meeting of all the workers in our organization was called by the trade union committee, candidates were discussed, and a vote was taken by show of hands. Anybody present had the right to propose a candidate, and the one who was elected was not personally a member of the Party. In considering the claims of the candidates their past activities were discussed, they themselves had to answer questions as to their qualifications, anybody could express an opinion, for or against them, and the basis of all the discussion was: What justification had the candidates to represent their comrades on the local Soviet?
As far as the elections in the villages were concerned, these took place at open village meetings, all peasants of voting age, other than those who employed labour, having the right to vote and to stand for election. As in the towns, any organization or individual could put forward candidates, anyone could ask the candidate questions, and anybody could support or oppose the candidature. It is usual for the Communist Party to put forward a candidate, trade unions and other organizations can also do so, and there is nothing to prevent the Party’s candidate from not being elected, if he has not sufficient prestige among the voters.Several things in there I dislike:
Raising hands does not seem like an accurate way vote. Peasants who employed labor couldn’t vote. People could vote even if they weren’t citizens. No mention of being able to vote for non-communists. There are trade-unions and other candidates but it doesn’t mention their political alignment
No mention of being able to vote for non-communists
???
Anybody present had the right to propose a candidate, the one who was elected was not personally a member of the Party
???
To defend non-citizens voting, the Soviets valued labor over nationalism and anyone could vote despite not being citizens if they worked there. Kinda like if the US allowed immigrants to vote who weren’t yet citizens.
Trade Unions were often independent as well. Really, the book itself is fascinating.
I support immigration but allowing non-citizens to vote seems like an easy way for foreign governments to swing elections in their favor.
Yes, I get that the trade unions were their own thing but that doesn’t mean they can’t also be communist.
I don’t really understand what you’re getting at here, you’re being very vague. I’m a Marxist, I enjoy my time there, I don’t really think I can say I share your same views on it.
When the instance I’m on was still federated with hexbear I did go and check them out to see what they had to say and with my own two eyes I saw people there denying the tiananmen square massacre and claiming that North Korea is a free and prosperous nation. Not to mention that when visiting other instances, such as the one I’m on, many would be extremely rude, which is why they got defederated.
Hexbear’s stance, and most Marxists in general, on Tian’anmen is that hundreds of protestors and PLA officers were killed in Beijing that day as the PLA advanced towards the square, but that the square itself was evacuated peacefully, which matches leaked US cables and the CPC’s official stance on what it calls the “June 4th incident”. This is a rejection of the commonly reported story of 10,000 people being killed on the square itself, which originated from a British diplomat’s cable. Said diplomat was later confirmed to have evacuated well before.
I reiterate, Hexbear’s stance isn’t that the massacre didn’t happen, but that Western nations intentionally sensationalize the quantity of deaths and the character of the events. This is also why Western Nations don’t frequently report on the South Korean Gwang-Ju massacre that occured around the same era, where the South Korean millitary murdered thousands of High School and College students protesting against Chun Do-Hwan’s dictatorship. All of what I said is backed up by the Wikipedia page for Tian’anmen Square Protests and Massacre, such as Alan Donald revising his estimate from 10,000 to the low thousands yet BBC continuing to report the 10,000 figure:
In a disputed cable sent in the aftermath of the events at Tiananmen, British Ambassador Alan Donald initially claimed, based on information from a “good friend” in the State Council of China, that a minimum of 10,000 civilians died,[237] claims which were repeated in a speech by Australian Prime Minister Bob Hawke,[238] but which is an estimated number much higher than other sources provided.[239][240] After the declassification, former student protest leader Feng Congde pointed out that Donald later revised his estimate to 2,700–3,400 deaths, a number closer to, but still much higher than, other estimates.[241]
As for the DPRK, I’d have to see what you mean as an example. The common consensus is that the DPRK has a well-documented “defector storytelling industry” where defectors are paid for outlandish stories, and due to their unverifiability gets passed on as truth. A good documentary on this subject is Loyal Citizens of Pyongyang in Seoul. Therefore, really, very little can be trusted on the subject. Brutal executions being reported such as one official being eaten to death by 120 dogs end up being reported uncritically, despite said official turning up alive later and the story originating from a Chinese satirical column, akin to the Onion.
This is where the joke of “Juche Necromancy” comes from, because supposedly executed officials regularly turn up alive.
The reason they got defederated from so many major instances is less to do with the politics and more to do with the spam, brigading, and bad faith interactions that had no intention of civility.
This is objectively untrue, Lemmy.world refused to ever federate, as, in their own words, a “pre-emptive last resort”.
In their statement, the reasoning they explicitly highlighted was Hexbear’s stances like being against western propaganda and disliking the mass overseas wars driven by the US. Don’t believe me? You can read it here - https://lemmy.world/post/2498330
So no, Hexbear was very explicitly defederated because of politics.
You can tell someone is terminally reddit brained when they’re still accusing people from federated instances of “brigading”.
Credit where credit is due, youre honest and youre correct. Have my upvote!
I try to be both, lol. Thanks!
Wow, I was wondering why I hadn’t blocked a single hexbear or lemmy.ml user here: my instance did it for me! I’ve had multiple accounts on multiple servers and consistently had to block hexbear users until finally blocking hexbear outright. It’s been a much better experience then.
You should block hexbear
It’s a tankie instance. You’re not missing anything important or reality-based by blocking it. You should also block lemmy.ml.
In fact, you should block everything and everyone expect for a small walled garden of committed neoliberals
If I wanted to hang out in an ideological ghetto, I’d unblock lemmy ml.
Oh another one of these
Short answer:
“What if 4chan was communist instead of neonazi”
Similar level of assholety and low post quality. Better politics. Overall don’t bother, not worth it.
“What if 4chan was communist instead of neonazi”
Not quite, that would be /leftypol/
Better politics.
This reminds me of one of their site banners:
Hexbear has its origins on Reddit’s ChapoTrapHouse which I’m pretty sure has a connection to leftypol in its history.
But sure
My point is:
Hexbear = Jerkoffs, except class conscious
Would be nice if they weren’t jerkoffs but hey, at least they have class consciousness.
This analysis isn’t quite accurate. On the whole, Hexbear is actually one of the kindest and coolest and community-minded places I’ve ever been on the internet. But I’d agree there’s an issue of a portion of users who happily get overly aggro if you annoy them (and being allowed to get away with it).
lmao the blatant transphobia “disengage with the largest trans safe space on lemmy”
you’re so obvious
even if one assumes your trollish comment was in good faith, it only takes a single glance at hexbears front page to see it’s filled with kindness and reason. just people having fun online while still making space for serious discussion. and again, making sure marginalized people are safe and welcome. I wonder what your real issue with the site is?
seriously, what other site allows trans people to safely and comfortably be ourselves like this? https://hexbear.net/post/4271750
Nobody mentioned blahaj broski
when i used blahaj i was harassed by transphobic chasers. it is NOT a safe space.
There is literally nothing transphohic about their comment, what the hell are you on about? People don’t like Hexbear because it’s trans-friendly, people dislike it because of their tankie politics and users that act like edgy 14 year olds.
Tank goes vroooooommm.
There’s 7 featured posts, which I assume are stickies made by the moderators. The 3rd post after that, so the 3rd actual popular post, is “fucking libs are still making excuses in the comments”. Such kindness and reason …
Funny how you don’t say anything about what that post is actually about - it’s about redditors excusing Kamala’s support for Israel. They aren’t kind to you if you defend the mass slaughter of civilians, no.
It seems to me that showing equal kindness to oppressor and oppressed would be supporting the oppressor.
Deragotory language, generalization & stigmatization. It is hate speech against all liberal minded people, there is nothing kind or reasonable about it.
Hate speech? Is “lib” a slur now? Are liberals a protected class? It’s not “hate speech” it’s just criticism of a political position.
“A pejorative word, phrase, slur, or derogatory term is a word or grammatical form expressing a negative or disrespectful connotation, a low opinion, or a lack of respect toward someone or something.[1] It is also used to express criticism, hostility, or disregard.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pejorative
So yes, it’s a slur.
To be clear, If you truly believe lib is a slur, then you also believe “tankie” is a slur but is justified.
Rather than making a silly argument equating pejoratives for political positions being equal to slurs based on immutable characteristics, you could just not do that.
Lmao. Guess we better update the slur filter to remove all instances of the word “lib.” Sorry, am I allowed to say it in quotes like that, or is it too offensive? I wouldn’t want to offend your delicate lib sensibilities.
Hexbear is a different instance where its users are basically a group of hard communism supporters. If you disliked their behavior, feel free to block their instance.
They are not only hard communists, they have 0 interest in propagating their ideas, they only insult and despise everyone who is not 100% in agreement with them. In the best case, and I don’t think it is, it is an endogamous community only for themselves, the opposite of what a federated social network is
Their entire stated purpose of federating is to “dunk” on people and “dismantle Western propaganda”. They’re not interested in participating in good faith and never have been. They don’t see anyone who disagrees with them as a person, just something to yell at and harass.
“tankie” here, dont really support them, they are the reason the left cant unify and are constantly infighting
I’m sorry u had to experience these extremists. Block the instance and forget about them.
“Anyone right of me is Hitler” sounds pretty on point for them. Instance block and move on with your day.
