The main thing I’m learning from this thread is that a surprising number of people don’t shut their machines down when they’re done using them. Which is wild to me.
A lot of modern windows laptop don’t let you shut them down.
They use something called Windows Hybrid Sleep and it should be illegal. Selecting shut down in windows will keep the machine in a state where it will turn on at random times to check for updates. Especially fun whrn in your backpack creating a furnace.
Thankfully it can be disabled via AD policy.
Shouldn’t have to use fucking group policy just to stop your machine updating at inopportune times. Fucking Windows.
It’s always funny to me when people call Linux complicated and in the next sentence say shit like that
As if doing registry edits and group policy stuff is acceptable for basic features and settings
deleted by creator
Ah yeah I forgot about hybrid sleep as I turned if off years ago and forgot it existed. Such a nonsense feature.
Ah yes, the greek hydra of IT. Disable one policy, two more shall take it’s place.
Or just disable the Fast Startup option
I remember you have to press either Shift or Alt for the shutdown button to actually shut down the PC.
You dont need to use group policy.
Admin console: powercfg.exe /hibernate off
Now its off. Hybrid sleep is just a faster Hibernate.
Or just turn off fast Startup in the power settings.
I meant that you can thankfully disable it with group policy so that the 3000 laptops I manage at work don’t all cook in backpacks every day.
I’ve been out of the GPO game for a while, but I’ve never heard of widespread issues with laptops waking up even if their lids are closed. Did this start with Windows 11?
Yeah it started sometime in 2022. Though also for Windows 10.
It also has some hardware requirements, so most older laptops wouldn’t have the issue.
is that not on by default for every windows installation?
The only reason why my uptime is only a month is because I took my PC with me on a work trip which involved packing it.
As someone who knows how to manage the power and update settings in Windows to prevent this from happening, I am learning that Linux users may not understand how to actually configure Windows to their liking. Which is wild to me.
When I got my first (and only) PC, it was outright SUGGESTED to never power it down. By HP. So yeah I just sleep my computer, and yes I have to deal with the bullshit in the meme lol
Always wondered why the fuck my PC is awake before I even touch it.
Back in the day we did that because it too long to boot so we never shut it down.
20 years later we have servers at home that we never shut down.
No point. Sleep works great and live updates are flawless.
Sign in states for tokens expire when you power cycle. If you’re in IT or moving between classes, not only would you have to wait for power down and power on each stop you make,you’d also need to sign into every tool you use that requires credentials. I work as a field tech for an MSP. If I had to shut down at the end of each stop and boot back up then I’d have to spend 20-30 minutes signing back into my RMM, ticket system, azure portal, knowledge base etc on top of the site specific stuff I’m already going to have to sign into for that stop. Sleep great. Just disable S0 sleep.
That’s ass. Your bosses should be moving away from that shitty software
Shitty software? The software is great. It sucks that we live in a world that needs MFA to be secure. I also don’t think any software exists in the IT space that doesn’t require some sign in. Every RMM on the planet is going to require secure sign on and so will every knowledge base software. You also need to sign in to access things like domain DNS. Most of my job is locked behind half a dozen sign ins. That’s how it goes for MSPs anything else would be unsecure.
me too. i see no reason not to shut it down, unless boot time takes way too long (you dont have an ssd), you use windows (always takes too long), or you have a bunch of apps open and don’t want to lose the workflow.
though i just have to shutdown anyway because my pc is right under a couple of roof leaks and it might rain while i’m sleeping or not at home
honest question, because i use windows and i shut down every day. is 20 seconds really “too long” for a full boot up?
I think a lot of people are still stuck in the HDD days where windows could take 15-20 mins for a cold boot.
But I only sleep windows because I like to get game updates while I sleep.
boot hardly takes any time at all. it’s all the programs on the computer that take forever to start.
Ctrl shift esc. Turn off start on boot up programs that you don’t want to start.
… that just means your computer is useless when you start it up. And anyway I’m talking about things like your browser with previous tabs or your IDE.
I sit do that either lmao. My browser loads just the home page after closing
no, i was joking about the windows part there
i’d say too long is 1 minute or more
Look, I used to work with computers that would take 5 minutes to turn on. I’m done waiting for computers to boot, I want it to take the least time it can. If hibernation takes just 1 second off, I’m gonna use it.
To be fair I don’t always use it like that but suspend is convenient if I have a continuous work that is scattered all around.
what i’d day is “always turn off your computer when you’re done using it”, meaning you sleep it when you have work you don’t want to lose.
That’s what sleep is for. Just lock Gnome and let the computer sleep in a sensible amount of time. Instant on when you need.
My Windows 10 computer eerily waking itself from sleep got me in the habit of shutting it down completely every night. I’d be lying in bed, turn over and open my eyes, and see the light of the screen reflecting off the wall. It was like something out of a shitty horror movie about computers taking over the world.
To this fucking day, even in Windows 11, it takes “Update and Shut Down” as a mere fucking suggestion. About half the time, it’ll restart after the update and just sit there chilling at the login screen. Not a single fuck given.
Linux is a breath of fresh air by comparison. Though, if you choose to run Arch you need to stay on top of updates or else a day will come where you won’t be able to update because you’re now too far behind. It can be fixed manually, but it’s still annoying and a little scary if you’re not familiar with it.
Imagine your oven or clothes iron turning itself on while you’re not home. Why TF people just accept their computers doing this is beyond me. Either it’s a boiling frog situation, or people simply don’t remember the times us users had complete control over our devices and think things were always this way.
As an 80s/90s kid, I can tell you they most definitely were not.
I hate windows doing windows things but that’s an oxymoron take because computers aren’t known to cause fires, if there was an apparent danger around leaving PCs on unattended, then there would’ve been legal repercussion. This is just a mere annoyance to most.
Electricity isn’t free, and neither is it’s impact on your computer hardware. The life expectancy of a circuit may reasonably be approximated as a function of watt-hours. this is why hardware manufactuers test their circuits in ovens: the heat simulates high wattage.
it doesn’t matter if the power drain is low. So long as your computer is on, it’s lifetime watt-hours are constantly ticking down.
Sleep disruption is a serious health issue
Windows has no idea of the state of the hardware it’s running on. Someone could be using a janky molex to sata power adapter, which are known to catch fire and only uses it when someone is present. Or a cheap-ass wish.com power supply with exploding capacitors.
The software is arrogant and needs to know its place. It serves the user. It should obey.
i didnt know arch did that. never happened to me, though i guess that’s because i update it like once every month or every two months, sometimes every day (depends on how long i can forget about updates existing)
The GPG keys that are used to sign packages expire and are rotated something like every six months to a year. If you don’t get the new ones in an update before they start being used, pacman will refuse to update at all.
It’s easily fixable, but if you don’t know that, it can be quite intimidating.
oh that makes sense, thx for explaining :D
You can update arch from any point of time to the current, it just takes a bit of time. Just use arch archove and update by month or two.
ACPI enabled BIOSes and UEFI support wake timers.
Windows uses this feature to wake the PC all spooky like so you don’t get to click the update button yourself.
While Windows doesn’t have an Arch wiki, the instructions for turning the automatic wake feature off are a web search away. You’ll need another web search to disable automatic updates though.
Did anyone else ever notice that Windows’s enshittification really took off around the same time they renamed “My PC” to “This PC” ?
Always seemed like it was a subtle indicator they no longer considered it your personal computer but rather one they so graciously allow you to use once in a while.
Sus timing, though it’s certainly just branding.
The whole “My-” prefix for “My Documents” and “My Computer” and all that is something that was around since the 90s, and really served to emphasise the “Personal” in “Personal Computer” at a time when PCs were coming into the home for the first time.
Nowadays that branding is really unnecessary and feels pretty antiquated too, especially in an era where most stuff for most people is online, and the emphasis is more on connected seamless stuff rather than a cute little folder to put your things in.
Our computer.
Their computer. You’re just a user.
You should factor in that nowadays it is fairly normal for a single person to have multiple computers, so “My PC” is not specific enough anymore.
Linux users when their computer won’t boot because they fucked up their grub config again: (Totally not me)
Are you distro hopping? That’s when my grub would fail on me on a monthly basis.
Or just installed few months of missing updates, looking at you my broken Manjaro dual-boot
Just don’t use a rolling distro.
Tumbleweed will update six months of packages or more without breaking a sweat. It’s all about using something sturdy.
A lot of systems use systemd boot. Also, why would you be modifying Grub?
They’re trolling and have no idea what the fuck they’re talking about. I’ve literally not had a bootloader failure in a decade from multiple Linux OS installs.
The only time I had an issue was when I was playing with a bleeding edge distro and it borked full disk encryption, but that was INTENTIONALLY bleeding edge and I knew the risks.
Nah I was doing some virtualization troubleshooting and had to make some changes to grub. Luckily I had backups, but as a serial tinkerer I break stuff pretty often. Also fucked up my fstab when trying to automount drives, though that was an easy fix. I never claimed to be a clever man
“My PC” was even replaced with “this PC” since Windows 11, which feels almost too symbolic…
To be fair, Linux has not been especially awesome at suspended/hibernate/resume, historically.
Suspend / hibernate / resume is really a test of the quality of all your device drivers. That’s always been a weakness in Linux, not because of Linux itself but because Windows is so dominant.
My linux PC used to be unable to hibernate/sleep at all, and my current laptop occasionally gets some kind of backlight burn-in from sleeping when the lid’s closed
My ex had one of them RGB everything rainbow gamer PCs.
Windows would auto boot to update in the middle of the night and turn the whole apartment into a rave…
damn, that sucks
also because that’s the only thing about that ex i know, the only conclusion i can make is that you stopped dating because of random middle of the night RGB raves
I have a gaming machine with no crazy RGBs, but the video card has a loud fan when at maximum. Most of the time it isn’t at maximum. When using the desktop it’s nice and quiet. When gaming it depends on the game, but mostly it’s not too loud. But. BUT! When it first turns on, the fans go to max for a second or two. I was woken up more than once by Windows deciding it needed to turn my PC on to install an update, and the fans screaming for a second as it booted.
I eventually found a setting that disabled that behaviour, but Microsoft made it so incredibly hard. Now that that machine is almost 100% Linux I never have to worry about that.
Just flip the switch on the back of the power supply after shutting down the computer or turn off the UPS.
this meme is especially true for students and the likes 😂 whenever you share a one-room flat with a laptop made by clueless techbros for clueless techbros, the increased fan whirring really shines.
Windows does not wake up from “hibernation” to do “updates”. What it really does is sleep walk during S0 sleep (aka Modern Standby) to check for updates, slowly draining your battery. Classic hibernation is not available while S0 sleep is supported by the BIOS.
Mac is also guilty of this.
What it really does is sleep walk during S0 sleep (aka Modern Standby) to check for updates, slowly draining your battery
More importantly, telling Windows to shut down doesn’t really shut it down, it puts it to sleep.
So just uncheck the Fast Startup option and it does not do that anymore.
I’m bottom even when I used windows because I turn it the hell off when I’m not using my computer.
isn’t the joke in the bottom that the pc and you are both sleeping tho
Nope. My Linux Mint randomly wakes up from sleep mode all the time. It’s just a bug. Tried to fix it, never found solution. I guess I am fine with it. Well. Not really. Help me if you can!!11!!
Apparently you can see which devices can wake your PC with
cat /proc/acpi/wakeup. S3 should be sleep and S4 hibernation. Though I have no idea which device is which.Lspci and lsusb will help you match up with the list
Thank you guys! Lemmy is great!
My first guess world be unplug your mouse and keyboard and see if it still happens. Your mouse or keyboard could be sending phantom inputs sometimes. If it’s a laptop maybe not though or you’d have to test it another way at least. But it’s the first thing I’d do.
Put chrome on it, that should fix it
Why is this true 😭
fun story, i almost went crazy for troubleshooting why my desktop (mint cinnamon) often wouldn’t autosuspend or even turn off the monitor.
after a good half a year it turned out to be three different issues. autosuspend and monitor were two separate issues in cinnamon that i found a workaround for, and i also found out from the log that something wakes it up every now and then. at first i thought my cats stomp on the keyboard, but they avoid touching it. what actually happens is that when my other cat hops off my chair, static electricity wakes the pc up…
that is crazy what
🤭and sometimes, if you wake your linux things go to shit and all you see is black screen and white mouse on it
Sometimes super+ctrl+alt+F8 saves me and I can restart PC from TTY, and sometimes, there is only a flashing cursor. In second case, I have to take hard measures and forcefully manually restart it
(Yes nvidia card with latest proprietary driver and kde on wayland) -> everything latest meaning from endeavour/arch/aur repos.
I had to spend an annoying amount of time finding all of the settings to make it so that my windows machine would never wake up on its own, spread out over an even longer period of time because some of them aren’t easy to trigger on my own so it was a matter of trying something and then trying more things if I find it awake on its own again.
Even disabling the wake on mouse movement was a pain because it doesn’t properly label mice and keyboards and doesn’t have a global setting. I wanted to keep wake on keyboard but not have it wake if my mouse moved a nm because a butterfly flapped its wings too vigorously as it flew by the closed window.
After I installed Linux, I went to do the same thing there only to find it already had sensible defaults set.
