I’d say Denis’ is waaaaaaay worse, they ruined Chani and added some nonsense subplot in part two as well… it’s just prettier. 😤
I loved Arrival though, and I do feel like most disruptive changes in his Dunes were studio notes because it would be more relatable to “modern audiences”.
If anything he made Chani less of rug to be walked all over and gave her a personality outside of “wife to the messiah”. If you were going to bitch about anyone in the Dune movies I’d think it’d be The Lady Jessica because she is an entirely different character in the movies. I don’t think that’s a criticism because she serves the plot well, but that one is a more grounded argument
Lady Jessica’s character in the new films pissed me off. She was one of my favorite characters in the books, and one of the first examples of a powerful, nuanced woman I’d read in my life.
She’s supposed to have so much self control she can literally alter poison with her body, decide the sex of her own baby and hypnotize people with her tone of voice, and yet she’s freaking out and crying in the movie. She went from a brilliant woman trying to survive and save her son to an over-emotional and manipulative dark mother trope.
Zendaya just plays an immature, “rebel without a cause” New Yorker instead of Chani, a strong and intelligent Fremen young lady who falls in love with and follows her Muad’dib, not just because of his prophetic abilities but also/mostly because of his character. But, in the current Western cultural understanding, that just wouldn’t fly as strong means selfish and reactive and intelligent means rebellious and lippy. She’s awed by Paul, as would be anyone surrounding him (to Paul’s chagrin when it changes those around him to more “robotic” beings as it does with Stilgar), but also understands him deeply and is his emotional pillar, while Paul’s the pillar to his entire community. They just wanted a “girl boss” and that’s what we had in Denis’ Dunes. 😔
You’re feigning ignorance then if you actually recall the books. Zendaya’s/Denis’ Chani and Herbert’s Chani are like night and day. And, again, what exactly was ‘misogynistic’ about my comment? And do I have to start copypasting passages of Dune and Messiah and make a comparative analysis with Denis’ Dune? It’s past midnight over here, my guy.
To be completely honest, Herbert’s Chani was pretty forgettable. Admittedly, it’s been a very long time since I’ve read anything Dune, but I truly cannot remember anything memorable about Chani in the books…
She’s Paul’s everything (and trying to keep her alive for as long as possible is the main reason he does anything in Messiah, basically) and mostly a supporting character in the books, and there’s nothing wrong with that… but Zendaya is a star and the West would’ve crucified Denis if he just let Chani be Chani. We both know it, that’s the core of the disagreement in this comment section, lol. Heretics and Chapterhouse have fantastic female protagonists, but I doubt we’ll get there, sadly.
I think it can still recover, but I felt the same way after leaving the theater for part 2. I was confused why they decided to change it that much. It’s supposed to make her seem intelligent and independent or something, but honestly it just make her seem nieve. They discuss Paul needing to do something like this, and she knows his mother’s position was the same, but was still his father’s only love.
It’s bad enough that they cut out an entire portion of their lives where they have a son together, and lose that son to the Harkonnen. Then they do what they did at the end and it’s just wrong.
It’s definitely the easiest to watch though, and I don’t know that it’s less accurate than 1984’s (Paul calls in rain after he wins the battle?). The miniseries is most accurate though.
Shortenning the timeframe of the first book from a few years to a few months definitely had some weird effects, like Paul and Chani’s relationship not being as solid yet. When I watched Part 2 the first time I kept wondering where they were going to put the timeskip before I realized they just weren’t going to have one.
I’d say Denis’ is waaaaaaay worse, they ruined Chani and added some nonsense subplot in part two as well… it’s just prettier. 😤
I loved Arrival though, and I do feel like most disruptive changes in his Dunes were studio notes because it would be more relatable to “modern audiences”.
Denis’s is great.
How do you feel that they ruined Chani?
If anything he made Chani less of rug to be walked all over and gave her a personality outside of “wife to the messiah”. If you were going to bitch about anyone in the Dune movies I’d think it’d be The Lady Jessica because she is an entirely different character in the movies. I don’t think that’s a criticism because she serves the plot well, but that one is a more grounded argument
Lady Jessica’s character in the new films pissed me off. She was one of my favorite characters in the books, and one of the first examples of a powerful, nuanced woman I’d read in my life.
She’s supposed to have so much self control she can literally alter poison with her body, decide the sex of her own baby and hypnotize people with her tone of voice, and yet she’s freaking out and crying in the movie. She went from a brilliant woman trying to survive and save her son to an over-emotional and manipulative dark mother trope.
She’s no “rug”, but I can see why she “needed” to be changed in a ‘modern’ adaptation with a big budget and larger financial expectations.
Zendaya just plays an immature, “rebel without a cause” New Yorker instead of Chani, a strong and intelligent Fremen young lady who falls in love with and follows her Muad’dib, not just because of his prophetic abilities but also/mostly because of his character. But, in the current Western cultural understanding, that just wouldn’t fly as strong means selfish and reactive and intelligent means rebellious and lippy. She’s awed by Paul, as would be anyone surrounding him (to Paul’s chagrin when it changes those around him to more “robotic” beings as it does with Stilgar), but also understands him deeply and is his emotional pillar, while Paul’s the pillar to his entire community. They just wanted a “girl boss” and that’s what we had in Denis’ Dunes. 😔
Calling Zendaya’s Chani a girl boss New Yorker seems incredibly misogynistic to me.
I don’t understand what “woman hating subtext” you read from my comment but, if you read the books, it will just seem appropriate.
I’ve read all of them after Foundation it’s my favorite science fiction series.
You’re feigning ignorance then if you actually recall the books. Zendaya’s/Denis’ Chani and Herbert’s Chani are like night and day. And, again, what exactly was ‘misogynistic’ about my comment? And do I have to start copypasting passages of Dune and Messiah and make a comparative analysis with Denis’ Dune? It’s past midnight over here, my guy.
To be completely honest, Herbert’s Chani was pretty forgettable. Admittedly, it’s been a very long time since I’ve read anything Dune, but I truly cannot remember anything memorable about Chani in the books…
She’s Paul’s everything (and trying to keep her alive for as long as possible is the main reason he does anything in Messiah, basically) and mostly a supporting character in the books, and there’s nothing wrong with that… but Zendaya is a star and the West would’ve crucified Denis if he just let Chani be Chani. We both know it, that’s the core of the disagreement in this comment section, lol. Heretics and Chapterhouse have fantastic female protagonists, but I doubt we’ll get there, sadly.
Honestly it feels like you dislike the actor and are projecting it on to the character.
You’re the king/queen of avoidance.
I think it can still recover, but I felt the same way after leaving the theater for part 2. I was confused why they decided to change it that much. It’s supposed to make her seem intelligent and independent or something, but honestly it just make her seem nieve. They discuss Paul needing to do something like this, and she knows his mother’s position was the same, but was still his father’s only love.
It’s bad enough that they cut out an entire portion of their lives where they have a son together, and lose that son to the Harkonnen. Then they do what they did at the end and it’s just wrong.
It’s definitely the easiest to watch though, and I don’t know that it’s less accurate than 1984’s (Paul calls in rain after he wins the battle?). The miniseries is most accurate though.
Shortenning the timeframe of the first book from a few years to a few months definitely had some weird effects, like Paul and Chani’s relationship not being as solid yet. When I watched Part 2 the first time I kept wondering where they were going to put the timeskip before I realized they just weren’t going to have one.