Edit: This question attracted way more interest than I hoped for! I will need some time to go through the comments in the next days, thanks for your efforts everyone. One thing I could grasp from the answers already - it seems to be complicated. There is no one fits all answer.
Under capitalism, it seems companies always need to grow bigger. Why can’t they just say, okay, we have 100 employees and produce a nice product for a specific market and that’s fine?
Or is this only a US megacorp thing where they need to grow to satisfy their shareholders?
Let’s ignore that most of the times the small companies get bought by the large ones.
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Yeah that’s the entire problem.
“Always bigger” is delusional or cancerous.
Change the “or” to a “and”, and you got it.
In the strictest definition, they don’t.
Capitalism is minimally fulfilled when a business sells something for a profit and reinvests the profit (now capital) in the business. Hence the term. It doesn’t have to grow the business, make new products, or do anything beyond maintenance of its processes, be that fixing or updating machinery or training employees. A single person selling tomatoes in a market in Madagascar that fixes of their tomato table with profits is perfectly capitalist.
Expecting constant growth is not a requirement of anything.
I would argue that this is not really true under capitalism. The logic of capitalism is one of capital accumulation, which requires growth. Under other systems you still have markets and money and profits but there are other goals than the accumulation of capital and therefore achieving “homeostasis” is a successful strategy-a business run with consistent inputs and outputs which includes a sustainable profit.
You don’t need to argue anything, because there is no universal definition of capitalism. Were not trying to define it.
But the term itself requires capital to be involved, and for a business to exist, that capital needs to be reinvested in the business. That doesn’t require growth. The absolute minimal state simply requires pricing a good sold at a net profit. That’s all. Growth isn’t a requirement.
While this is mostly true it’s certainly the case that publicly traded companies have strong incentives to grow.
Private companies mostly have the ownership, and/or the desire to go public to blame.
And publicly traded companies are the also the minority of the total number of companies in the US. So this is a niche issue with outsized effects, meaning a policy solution is out there that
This mostly only happens to companies with outside investors, and it’s in order to make the investors happy.
Companies owned privately by one or a handful of people who all just want the company to keep going, make a decent profit, and be sustainable, don’t always exhibit the “need for growth” behavior.
It’s usually because the investors don’t really give a shit about the company or its mission, they just want money. Often this kind of “need for growth” bullshit is just short term growth, since that’s what most investors care about. It stifles the company’s ability to plan for long term growth and make the right decisions to achieve it.
This includes all publically traded companies
Bingo.
There are also stable companies with a solid revenue stream that don’t have much growth potential, so pay out the profits as dividends. These are more in demand for retirement funds or individuals who get to point in life they need to start living from their investments. Yield is always a calculation of dividend + growth.
Tech companies that don’t pay a dividend and reinvest everything into growth is a relatively new concept
Well, partially maybe. In the past, investors were happy with dividends instead of growth. There are extra factors making growth be preferable over dividends nowdays.
It’s not “companies”, it’spublicly traded companies.
And the answer is quite simple really: the moment you become publicly traded your stock becomes your product, and everything else becomes a means to deliver better stock prices to your investors.
Not all companies are publicly traded, I patronise privately held companies wherever possible because as a client I’m still at the core of their business strategy, and I’m wary of the alternative.
At the end of the day, bad strategies result in bad products and services. Vote with your wallet, it’s very possible.
That is a myth. The law is actually far more complicated, at least in the U.S., and presumably elsewhere too.
Please elaborate because everything written above is correct. Companies must maximize value.
The leading statement of the law’s view on corporate social responsibility goes back to Dodge v. Ford Motor Co, a 1919 decision that held that “a business corporation is organized and carried on primarily for the profit of the stockholders.” That case — in which Henry Ford was challenged by shareholders when he tried to reduce car prices at their expense — also established that “it is not within the lawful powers of a board of directors to shape and conduct the affairs of a corporation for the merely incidental benefit of shareholders and for the primary purpose of benefiting others.”
Because they run out of “create” and they’re slaves to the quarterly report.
A new company that makes/sells a widget that is desirable will grow naturally from the demand for the product. It has to get bigger to manage the demand. They go public to get more money to grow more quickly. Those public investors expect a return on their stock investment purchase.
Now competitors show up. Competition is bad for our big startup (despite being a supposed tenant of the free market that allowed our company to grow quickly in the first place) that is now a major power in the widget industry. You can only make the widget so many ways, can’t really improve it, and the market is becoming saturated. So what happens next? WidgetCo’s stock is flat! Investors are mad! The CEO is in trouble! Now we do acquisitions and enshittification. Buy the competitors and adjacent product makers. Now there’s “growth” again even though nothing new is made, in fact the product gets worse and nobody gets hired as they want attrition to get rid of redundant employees. The hope is that the widget is so engrained in society that it can’t be done without. Now do unbundling. Subscriptions. Sunsetting. Modify the product so that new versions must be bought due to batteries or servers no longer supporting previous versions. If you can’t make new things, make the customer buy new versions of the same old things.
Gotta keep pushing that quarterly report line up to keep the investors happy and the CEO bonuses coming.
They don’t.
See local businesses that remain a single location for generations.
It is a want not a need.
I hate it. It even bleeds over into performance reviews. Like you’ll never get a perfect score no matter how hard you work because you always have to be improving on something. It’s supposed to be the sure fire sign of “success” but all it does is create impossible goals and bring everyone down.
I think the focus on growth is not the problem. The problem is leadership thinking that the individual has a significant role in how much they can create growth. The environment is much more significant.
Probably same reason cancer always needs to grow. It’s a fundamentally broken part of the system.
if you look closer you’ll note that it’s very much related to whether a company is publicly trader or not, as soon as people are trading stocks you end up with a bunch of people who don’t actually care about the company and those involved in it, they only care about making money.
a company that isn’t having stocks traded around is able to focus on things other than growth, such as making sustainable revenue or being a public good (or a personal good, like a small café that barely makes any profit and just exists because the owners want to run a café).
Because they take investment.
Privately held companies can sit around earning the exact same amount of profit forever.
But if you are publicly traded on the stock market, people are walking up and injecting money into your business. They expect a return for that investment. And that means that the part of your business they’ve bought has to be worth more in the future in order for them to sell it for more than they bought it.
Therefore: growth. Owning 1% of a $100k business isn’t with as much as owning 1% of a $200k business. So if you own 1%, you want it to go from $100k to $200k.
If you aren’t taking outside money, none of this is a problem. Unless the owners just want a raise, which most people generally do over time. If nothing else, inflation is constantly eroding the value of money so you need to grow a little just to stand still. Most people don’t want to make do with less and less over time.
Re: inflation, growth in pure gross/intake has to increase to match the currency devaluation, and that can mostly be done by adjusting your prices in line with inflation. Employee count, market shares etc. can all hold steady, all else being equal.
This is also the issue with private investment companies.
When the EA deal was announced, people said more or less “this is proof that private isn’t any better than public”. Well that’s sort of true - there’s no guarantee that private is any better, but it CAN be, depends on who owns it. In the case of EA games, it was bought as an investment by a bunch of greedy investors, of course it’s going to be as bad as, if not worse than, a public corp.
It’s literally sad that the only hope for EA to become less scummy as a privately held company, than it was as a publicly traded company, is for the Saudi Arabian regime to proactively use them to win over gamers through the digital equivalent of ‘sports-washing’.
It’s depressing to think that we are at a point where EA could be considered the lesser evil in comparison.
I didn’t see a single top level comment be the devil’s advocate so I will give it a try.
Humanity moves forward. Standards are always shifting. New technologies and needs are created everyday and people want to raise their standard of living to accommodate for new things. Also, global population has been growing since we stabilized food production in the 1800’s.
If companies don’t grow at least with population, that means tomorrow we will have less than today. If companies don’t also grow with raising standards of living, that means someone stays poor. If companies don’t also grow to match the complexities of producing new technology, that means we stopped in time technologically.
In a competitive system such as capitalism, you don’t wait for more competitors to show up and fill this new ever-growing demand; you take that demand for yourself. So everyone seeks growth.
When a society does not grow (i.e. japan) for too long, capitalism doesn’t break down immediately, but you clearly see it stagnates. Japan’s population is not stable and their economy is facing major problems.
Whether growth is organic or fabricated is a related, but different, topic
They don’t. It is a fallacy. Category error.
They do because shareholders will sue if profit doesn’t rise.
You’re thinking of publicly traded companies. That is not “companies”.
No, you’re desperately flailing to try to think of yourself as correct when everybody knows you’re wrong. You’re well aware of the context of this discussion, and you don’t know what you’re talking about.
🙄
The context is ‘companies.’
99.99% of companies are privately held.
The only thing requiring a company to be public is the desire for growth.
It’s a fallacy. As stated.
Idiots began to demand perpetual growth and other idiots began trying to make it happen. And then it became institutionalized. And then the idiots forgot they were idiots.
Because greed
Valuation of companies is partially dependent on growth. A company that is projected to grow is worth more than a similarly sized company because it is expected that future growth will make the company earn more in the future, which makes the company worth more now.
