The whole ethnic identity is mostly to identify where in the world you ethnically originated from to other Americans. Because almost every single person in the US is either an immigrant, or a descendent of one. So we identify to each other where we came from as Americans.
Where people go wrong with this is if they happen to be traveling internationally and take this US centric identity with them. If traveling internationally, you could be ethnically from the place you are traveling. But in that context, you’d be American. This is a part of that whole well traveled awareness thing.
The genealogy thing is their curiosity in tracing that ethnic origin with greater detail. I personally don’t find it too interesting myself, but different strokes.
Edit: I’d like to add, this is mostly in case other people reading this thread are wondering why this is even a thing. It’s truly an annoying behavior.
Really, I think a far more charitable (and common) instance of this is an american, say, travelling to Ireland and noting that they actually have Irish heritage. And then some nice local appreciates their interest and they have something to talk about. American tourists these days don’t seem any more annoying or tone deaf than, say German, Israeli, or UK tourists. If you encounter a tourist off the beaten path, then they are almost always polite, curious, and a very nice person. And if you are hanging out where the big bus tourists congregate… well, what did you expect? They are dumbasses fishing for selfies - the lowest common denominator doesnt differentiate based on nationality.
Potentially annoying American here with a point of clarification: is it annoying just to be interested in one’s heritage, or is it Americans that make that heritage their entire personality?
I think a lot of it stems from living in a relatively young, immigration heavy, multicultural country and the little conversations that arise from that.
At least in the city I grew up and still live in I have met a lot of people who either immigrated or whose parents immigrated from other countries. In high school human geography I learned it takes a couple generations for an immigrant family to fully assimilate into a new culture, so a lot of these first/second generation immigrants still have connections and traditions from their family’s old country. The history of those countries (or at least the regions modern countries occupy) stretch back hundreds to thousands of years. I think many caucasian Americans, often raised to be competitive, want that sense of history when comparing to their own family but American culture has “only” developed over the past 300-400 years. To get an older/deeper sense of heritage they have to ask where their ancestors that immigrated to the US immigrated from, and because a sense of superiority is at least some part of American culture that older heritage has to be better than the other older heritages and therefore something to be loud and proud about. Even if it isn’t actually a big part of one’s life.
All that to say yes I think you’re right about it being a matter of ethnic distinction, which I think is brought about by the circumstances of US history. I definitely get how it’s annoying.
I’m an immigrant in the U.S. When my accent gives me away, I’m often asked where I’m from, which somehow leads to the discovery that the other person is also Irish. Or Scottish. Usually Irish.
I’m not offended so much as confused. “I am Irish” carries an expectation of shared culture and experience. When that’s clearly not what’s being offered, it lands less as connection and more hollow. Offense arises when clichés or affected accents appear. That’s no longer about identity; it’s just being an eejit.
I also find it maddening, not only because it’s silly, but because the analysis is largely crap anyhow.
My mother’s family touted their “Irish heritage for three generations”, then quickly shut up when their genome analysis “proved” they were instead largely English. I’ve had to point out Ireland and England’s relative positions and ask them if they thought anyone in our ancestry might have ever moved from island to island. Maybe consider that they were from somewhere else in Europe even earlier? Now they’re “Irish” again.
Point entirely missed, JFC. They were Irish, their ancestors were maybe English, and way back, their ancestors were definitely African, but I don’t see them getting into African cultural heritage. Thankfully.
You’re United Statesians. I get the draw: they’re looking for genuine but effort-free connection, identity, and belonging in a country whose dominant culture is homogenization, commoditization, and exploitation, but their search for culture through tenuous connections to long-dead ancestors instead of family, friends, and neighbors is just as hollow and unfulfilling.
Don’t obsess about great³-Grandpa Pádraig’s life harvesting peat from the bogs; he’s long dead and probably would have hated you. Embrace what and where you are and utilize and improve what you actually have.
maybe clearing this up:
germany has a hereditary citizenship. i. e. children of germans can get a german passport.
being “german” means owning german citizenship (or citizenship of the one of the former constructs the federal republic sees as its precursors), not owning a set of genes. you can have no ‘distinct european genes’ (e.g. be ainu?) at all and get citizenship for your kids, as long as you have it. you can be “genetically german” and still don’t have a passport.
It typically doesn’t. Most countries don’t care about where your ancestors came from. Being fluent in the local language and culture will generally give you a leg up if you already qualify for immigration so I hope your family kept those alive (and not Americanized versions like Irish-Americans wearing green on St. Patrick’s Day). But your ancestry is usually completely irrelevant.
Those genetic test results absolutely don’t mean anything. If you’re culturally American with an American passport, you’re American and that’s it.
Kind of funny you specifically call out Irish-Americans, because Ireland does actually have some options for citizenship-by-descent. It’s not quite as simple as anyone with Irish ancestry can become a citizen, but it is a thing.
If you have a grandparent who was born in Ireland you’re eligible
Or if your parent was an Irish citizen at the time of your birth
So hypothetically if you have a great grandparent born in Ireland, your parent could apply for Irish citizenship, even though their parents (your grandparents) weren’t citizens and had never set foot in Ireland
And if they did that before you were born you would also be eligible
And so on down the line to your children, and their children, etc. if everyone keeps on top of it.
There’s actually a decent handful of countries with some sort of citizenship-by-descent, not a majority by a longshot, and of course every country that does offer it has different requirements and restrictions, but for some people it can potentially be a viable pathway to another citizenship.
i am not going to verify what you said, but regardless of if it is true, if your grandparents have the citizenship, you probably don’t need dna test to find that out…
It’s absolutely an edge case, but there are still a lot of wonky family situations out there, people who are estranged from their family for any number of reasons, adoption, people raised by their grandparents under the impression that they were their parents to hide the fact that their sister is really their mom and they were hiding a teen pregnancy, your mom cheated and your dad isn’t actually your father, etc.
And sometimes that all stays under wraps until someone in the family takes a DNA test.
I have a friend with a big family who just recently discovered that most of her aunts and uncles aren’t actually her grandfather’s biological children. She and her siblings haven’t done a test themselves and her father’s dead so the jury is still out on whether she’s blood related to him or not.
But if she’s not, and she finds out who her actual biological grandfather is, it’s not impossible that that may open up a new pathway to citizenship through him.
And laws change, as a hypothetical, let’s say Poland starts getting antsy (well, antsyer) about Russia doing Russia stuff and really wants more people to feed the war machine in case of WWII breaking out, they already have a citizenship by descent option but the proper documentation to qualify can be tricky, but if they decide they really want to increase immigration I don’t think it would be out of the question for them to open up a pathway for someone who can show a DNA test with X% polish ancestry. In that hypothetical it might be kind of an out-of-the-frying-pan-into-the-fire situation, but maybe it would still be preferable to the situation in someone’s home country.
It’s just one more tool in the box that can open up new avenues for people to explore. It may not pan out for everyone or even most people who look into it, but in some small handful of cases it may save their lives.
We’re not talking to you in this thread, we’re talking about you. You don’t need to jump in with “but that’s not annoying!” After people answer the question OP posed, that’s not useful.
Oh, pardon me, I forgot you’re allowed to find someone seeking a path forward in life as dreadfully inconvenient, because where you were born grants you superiority, m’lord
There is only one country that gives a flying shit about where your great-grandma allegedly came from, and that’s Israel. For every other country you’re not figuring out any options, you’re cosplaying.
Edit: There are actually more countries that care about where your grandma was from. 17 to be exact, but some are more equal than others, some of those have more conditions put upon, and some just need you to be descendant of emigrants.
It’s not quite the same, but I know someone who acquired Italian citizenship because their grandparents were Italian/had Italian citizenship. They don’t even speak Italian.
Italy has recently changed their requirements and now language proficiency and residency are required. But yes, up until very recently heritage was mostly enough.
They did not get citizenship because of their grandparents.
They got a foot in the door because they knew someone living in Italy (if that even is the case), and then went through everything a normal migrant needs to go through.
You don’t need to have ancestors there in order to live somewhere.
What are you even talking about? They both acquired it over Jure Sanguinis, both of them barely understand any Italian. They have dual Italian citizenship.
Nobody said anything about needing ancestors to live somewhere else.
their obsession with genome analysis / where one of their great-great-grandfathers came from.
“i am italian, german, polish, chinese and cree!” “no, you are us-citizen and don’t speak any language but english.”
The whole ethnic identity is mostly to identify where in the world you ethnically originated from to other Americans. Because almost every single person in the US is either an immigrant, or a descendent of one. So we identify to each other where we came from as Americans.
Where people go wrong with this is if they happen to be traveling internationally and take this US centric identity with them. If traveling internationally, you could be ethnically from the place you are traveling. But in that context, you’d be American. This is a part of that whole well traveled awareness thing.
The genealogy thing is their curiosity in tracing that ethnic origin with greater detail. I personally don’t find it too interesting myself, but different strokes.
Edit: I’d like to add, this is mostly in case other people reading this thread are wondering why this is even a thing. It’s truly an annoying behavior.
Really, I think a far more charitable (and common) instance of this is an american, say, travelling to Ireland and noting that they actually have Irish heritage. And then some nice local appreciates their interest and they have something to talk about. American tourists these days don’t seem any more annoying or tone deaf than, say German, Israeli, or UK tourists. If you encounter a tourist off the beaten path, then they are almost always polite, curious, and a very nice person. And if you are hanging out where the big bus tourists congregate… well, what did you expect? They are dumbasses fishing for selfies - the lowest common denominator doesnt differentiate based on nationality.
Potentially annoying American here with a point of clarification: is it annoying just to be interested in one’s heritage, or is it Americans that make that heritage their entire personality?
the identity thing. as far as i see it’s usually white people who do this. to gain ethnic distinction?
sure its fun to find out more abt what your granparents did (unless you are german).
I think a lot of it stems from living in a relatively young, immigration heavy, multicultural country and the little conversations that arise from that.
At least in the city I grew up and still live in I have met a lot of people who either immigrated or whose parents immigrated from other countries. In high school human geography I learned it takes a couple generations for an immigrant family to fully assimilate into a new culture, so a lot of these first/second generation immigrants still have connections and traditions from their family’s old country. The history of those countries (or at least the regions modern countries occupy) stretch back hundreds to thousands of years. I think many caucasian Americans, often raised to be competitive, want that sense of history when comparing to their own family but American culture has “only” developed over the past 300-400 years. To get an older/deeper sense of heritage they have to ask where their ancestors that immigrated to the US immigrated from, and because a sense of superiority is at least some part of American culture that older heritage has to be better than the other older heritages and therefore something to be loud and proud about. Even if it isn’t actually a big part of one’s life.
All that to say yes I think you’re right about it being a matter of ethnic distinction, which I think is brought about by the circumstances of US history. I definitely get how it’s annoying.
I’m an immigrant in the U.S. When my accent gives me away, I’m often asked where I’m from, which somehow leads to the discovery that the other person is also Irish. Or Scottish. Usually Irish.
I’m not offended so much as confused. “I am Irish” carries an expectation of shared culture and experience. When that’s clearly not what’s being offered, it lands less as connection and more hollow. Offense arises when clichés or affected accents appear. That’s no longer about identity; it’s just being an eejit.
I also find it maddening, not only because it’s silly, but because the analysis is largely crap anyhow.
My mother’s family touted their “Irish heritage for three generations”, then quickly shut up when their genome analysis “proved” they were instead largely English. I’ve had to point out Ireland and England’s relative positions and ask them if they thought anyone in our ancestry might have ever moved from island to island. Maybe consider that they were from somewhere else in Europe even earlier? Now they’re “Irish” again.
Point entirely missed, JFC. They were Irish, their ancestors were maybe English, and way back, their ancestors were definitely African, but I don’t see them getting into African cultural heritage. Thankfully.
You’re United Statesians. I get the draw: they’re looking for genuine but effort-free connection, identity, and belonging in a country whose dominant culture is homogenization, commoditization, and exploitation, but their search for culture through tenuous connections to long-dead ancestors instead of family, friends, and neighbors is just as hollow and unfulfilling.
Don’t obsess about great³-Grandpa Pádraig’s life harvesting peat from the bogs; he’s long dead and probably would have hated you. Embrace what and where you are and utilize and improve what you actually have.
“English, Scotch, Welch and Irish” always drives me nuts. You can’t even pronounce one of them correctly; how is that honouring your “heritage”?
no, they’re literally 25% grape juice
They’re Americans so grape jelly.
In America, juice and jelly have the same sugar and fake ingredient contents.
maybe clearing this up: germany has a hereditary citizenship. i. e. children of germans can get a german passport.
being “german” means owning german citizenship (or citizenship of the one of the former constructs the federal republic sees as its precursors), not owning a set of genes. you can have no ‘distinct european genes’ (e.g. be ainu?) at all and get citizenship for your kids, as long as you have it. you can be “genetically german” and still don’t have a passport.
jus sanguinis usually isn’t genetically defined
Jay parlay Francsays trey beein. Jaytude on laycole quart ans.
if i had the power to do so, i’d give you a french passport right away.
If it means we can get citizenship somewhere else and get out… you’re offended by us figuring out our options? Oh how inconsiderate of us
It typically doesn’t. Most countries don’t care about where your ancestors came from. Being fluent in the local language and culture will generally give you a leg up if you already qualify for immigration so I hope your family kept those alive (and not Americanized versions like Irish-Americans wearing green on St. Patrick’s Day). But your ancestry is usually completely irrelevant.
Those genetic test results absolutely don’t mean anything. If you’re culturally American with an American passport, you’re American and that’s it.
Kind of funny you specifically call out Irish-Americans, because Ireland does actually have some options for citizenship-by-descent. It’s not quite as simple as anyone with Irish ancestry can become a citizen, but it is a thing.
If you have a grandparent who was born in Ireland you’re eligible
Or if your parent was an Irish citizen at the time of your birth
So hypothetically if you have a great grandparent born in Ireland, your parent could apply for Irish citizenship, even though their parents (your grandparents) weren’t citizens and had never set foot in Ireland
And if they did that before you were born you would also be eligible
And so on down the line to your children, and their children, etc. if everyone keeps on top of it.
There’s actually a decent handful of countries with some sort of citizenship-by-descent, not a majority by a longshot, and of course every country that does offer it has different requirements and restrictions, but for some people it can potentially be a viable pathway to another citizenship.
i am not going to verify what you said, but regardless of if it is true, if your grandparents have the citizenship, you probably don’t need dna test to find that out…
It’s absolutely an edge case, but there are still a lot of wonky family situations out there, people who are estranged from their family for any number of reasons, adoption, people raised by their grandparents under the impression that they were their parents to hide the fact that their sister is really their mom and they were hiding a teen pregnancy, your mom cheated and your dad isn’t actually your father, etc.
And sometimes that all stays under wraps until someone in the family takes a DNA test.
I have a friend with a big family who just recently discovered that most of her aunts and uncles aren’t actually her grandfather’s biological children. She and her siblings haven’t done a test themselves and her father’s dead so the jury is still out on whether she’s blood related to him or not.
But if she’s not, and she finds out who her actual biological grandfather is, it’s not impossible that that may open up a new pathway to citizenship through him.
And laws change, as a hypothetical, let’s say Poland starts getting antsy (well, antsyer) about Russia doing Russia stuff and really wants more people to feed the war machine in case of WWII breaking out, they already have a citizenship by descent option but the proper documentation to qualify can be tricky, but if they decide they really want to increase immigration I don’t think it would be out of the question for them to open up a pathway for someone who can show a DNA test with X% polish ancestry. In that hypothetical it might be kind of an out-of-the-frying-pan-into-the-fire situation, but maybe it would still be preferable to the situation in someone’s home country.
It’s just one more tool in the box that can open up new avenues for people to explore. It may not pan out for everyone or even most people who look into it, but in some small handful of cases it may save their lives.
in some small number of cases you may get hit by a meteorite during that search, so be careful.
In some small number of cases you may die in a house fire, and I’ll bet you have smoke detectors and fire extinguishers around just in case
“smoke detectors everywhere” is not a norm everywhere in the world in a same way it is in usa.
“americans are not aware there is a world behind their borders” is already on a list in this thread, but thank you for practical presentation 😂
We’re not talking to you in this thread, we’re talking about you. You don’t need to jump in with “but that’s not annoying!” After people answer the question OP posed, that’s not useful.
This is ironically another annoying behaviour.
Oh, pardon me, I forgot you’re allowed to find someone seeking a path forward in life as dreadfully inconvenient, because where you were born grants you superiority, m’lord
Yes, we see it, you can stop demonstrating the annoying behaviour now.
by all means do. but don’t put that on facebook?
Why wouldn’t we give our family members a tip on how they can also get out, on a platform where they would see it?
did anyone ever get a passport because some lab result said they were 10% “genetically slovakian”?
I don’t know about Slovakian, but such places exist, yes.
great, another american immigrant. we need to build a wall and make america pay for it.
Great attitude you got there
You don’t get citizenship just because you had ancestors there once.
Otherwise everyone is an African citizen.
Germany will give you citizenship for having had a single Great Great Grandfather from Bavaria. Ask me how I know…
There are such places.
There is only one country that gives a flying shit about where your great-grandma allegedly came from, and that’s Israel. For every other country you’re not figuring out any options, you’re cosplaying.
Edit: There are actually more countries that care about where your grandma was from. 17 to be exact, but some are more equal than others, some of those have more conditions put upon, and some just need you to be descendant of emigrants.
It’s not quite the same, but I know someone who acquired Italian citizenship because their grandparents were Italian/had Italian citizenship. They don’t even speak Italian.
Italy has recently changed their requirements and now language proficiency and residency are required. But yes, up until very recently heritage was mostly enough.
They did not get citizenship because of their grandparents.
They got a foot in the door because they knew someone living in Italy (if that even is the case), and then went through everything a normal migrant needs to go through.
You don’t need to have ancestors there in order to live somewhere.
What are you even talking about? They both acquired it over Jure Sanguinis, both of them barely understand any Italian. They have dual Italian citizenship.
Nobody said anything about needing ancestors to live somewhere else.