by using a Pixel…
Buy one used to not financially support them. GrapheneOS only supports Pixel phones as they are the only ones which meet the security requirements.
I will always laugh at their “security requirements”
What is wrong with them?
If only something more than Pixels was supported.
SOON
™
Do you recommend putting it on pixel 6? Or is it outdated?
If you already have one go for it. My 6 with GOS runs significantly better than my 8 with stock android. I wouldn’t buy one specifically for it though, I’d go newer since it will be supported longer.
older pixels have fewer years of GOS dev support remaining. recommend 7+
Graphene os can run it on other phones, it’s just not as secure and you have to build it yourself
Break free from Google by giving your money to Google!
I bought my Pixel 9 refurbished (as new).
Refurbished is a thing. So is
Spoiler
stealing
Doesn’t matter if it’s at the beginning or end of the pipeline. It’s feeding the demand.
I have a second hand Pixel for GrapheneOS to compromise without being compromised. Was degoogled with Lineage for many years, but it was becoming too much of a problem. I’m not happy owning literally a Google phone. Felt I had no choice.
Really, regulators are needed to sort this out. Consumer choice doesn’t work with dualopy.
Ideally we’ll eventually switch to a Mobile Linux OS in the future, such as postmarketOS, as that would not be beholden to corporate decisions like Android is with Google.
Which phone works completely on postmarketos? Looks like only librem5, which are expensive, especially for the spec.
No Linux OS currently supports many models of phones, and the ones it does support, it is still quite janky and not ready for a general audience (calling is often flakey, phone apps are pretty glitchy, etc). The best we can do at the moment is either donate toward those projects with either money or code (if someone is able to) to help get more hands on it to polish it up and expand support for more phones.
GrapheneOS is currently the only really polished privacy respecting mobile option that the average user can realistically adopt.
I bought mine from Telus … so i would think Telus gave them the money a long time ago for said phone and i’m just giving Telus back their money … now i’m not giving money or data to anyone.
I’m waiting for a phone to meet Graphene’s requirements that isn’t made by Google. Then I’ll switch. Hope it happens sooner rather than later.
I initially considered that, but in the end I just bit the bullet and got one 2 weeks ago.
My thought is with the current trend of PC hardware prices, I didn’t want to wait to see how it affects phone prices.
At the same time, I do not know if the collaborative phone between GOS and the manufacturer will be something I like. The current Pixel 10 phone is already bigger than what I ultimately prefer and I think it’s more probable the new phone will be phablet sized.
And this is something I’ve been thinking about too. While I dislike the idea of giving money to Google, it might be something I have to just make my peace with as a one time purchase for the next few years (I’m not the kind of user that has to have the newest device when it comes out). I dislike phablets too, so I always try to avoid them. I also didn’t consider PC hardware issues like ram availability and such affecting the prices of phones until now, so good of you to bring it up. I’ll think about it.
will be phablet sized
Already is… but it is what it is. Welcome to gOS, we don’t have cookies ;}
I’m looking into getting a Jolla, though I’m sure the security probably doesn’t match up to GrapheneOS. They seem more privacy oriented and these days I’d like to contribute to the existence of European alternatives.
I understand the complexity of supporting different hardware, but i cannot take this thing seriously while it only runs on google pixel phones.
A while ago they announced they were planning a collaboration with a big phone brand
Nothing else meets the secuirty requirements and they don’t want to comprimise.
I’m using Graphene for around a 6 months now on a Pixel 9, with F-Droid being the primary app source. I quite like it.
have you needed to use microG for any apps? is it a sufficient replacement for google play?
MicroG isn’t necessary with Grapheneos’s sandboxed Google Play.
Apart from unnecessary, pretty sure it’s also unsupported to begin with
GrapheneOS is just great. 2 weeks into it and it works soo good.
Break free from Google! By buying a Google phone…
This betrays a deep level of tech illiteracy
Not knowing you can buy used/refurbished betrays a deep level of real life illiteracy
I know you can buy used and refurbished actually, that’s how I got my pixel. It’s still buying a Google phone. It still breaks free from Google. You have now reached the point of just regular old illiteracy I guess
Have never looked back since i switched to gos… just buy a refurbed pixel to avoid giving big G ya monry.
Remember, though, in less than 200 days google kills all “sideloading.” It seriously fucks with gos, and they have hinted they will eventually disable flashing custom roms
TL;DR The above commenter is spreading FUD. GOS will work fine and allow sideloading.
Stop spreading FUD. Google kills sideloading on Google certified ROMs. Being Google certified doesn’t mean you have more features than ROMs which aren’t certified. Only Google certified ROMs lose the ability to sideload and have to adhere to all Google Play policies. Meaning GOS loses its certified status but doesn’t lose the ability to sideload. The only way in which GOS might be coerced to disable sideloading is if Google pushes these changes upstream to the AOSP and even then forking is always an option. Also when has Google ever hinted at disabling flashing custom ROMs? It might be right down their alley but I wouldn’t make such claims without citing sources.
Just as a side note: Android ≠ AOSP. This is relevant as many people misunderstand the news they read. When Google changes Android (Google’s proprietary AOSP “distro”) it doesn’t necessarily mean that changes are coming to the AOSP or GOS which is also an AOSP “distro”.
Reading through this forum thread is recommended.
I use GOS and I am all for correcting people, but perhaps next time, don’t assume they are spreading FUD, and instead assume they are just misinformed
Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to ignorance and stupidity.
Only a Sith deals in absolutes!
I don’t see how spreading FUD and being misinformed are exclusive. I didn’t say he was doing so in bad faith, just stating that the comment created fear, uncertainty and doubt without any factual basis.
To be fair Wikipedia does say it is a manipulative propaganda tactic but I’ve usually meant it in the abovementioned context.
Im not trying to “spread fud.” The state of 3rd party software on android is where it is. Google is introducing a high friction system for unverified apps that includes fees paid directly to google, and is not releasing to aosp in advance at all… this potentially means things like f droid and aurora cant operate. It doesnt mean that gos wont “allow” sideloading, but that you wont have alternatives to load. It also means you will have to increasingly be limited to sandboxed google play, with more barriers to overcome to make those apps work on non-android. https://www.androidauthority.com/android-changes-third-party-app-stores-3613409/
Wish i could find where i read that google was planning to eliminate bootloader access… they walked it back in the end after expected uproar. Ultimately, the pressure from ‘verified by google’ and the changes to AOSP are enough pressure to push out ROMS as it is…
https://www.androidauthority.com/android-rom-calyxos-support-freeze-google-blame-3590268/
Anyway, listen. I LOVE graphene. Everyone should use it, BECAUSE google is demonstrably a band of fuckwits. Im not trying to dissuade but inform. I am excited for an announcement about who theyre working with when they say their future is a phone made in connjunction with a “major OEM” maker. https://www.androidheadlines.com/2025/10/grapheneos-may-break-pixel-exclusivity-with-a-new-phone-in-2026.html
I don’t doubt that in the future Google will kill off the AOSP and disable installing custom ROMs like Apple does. But it just isn’t accurate to say that in 200 days sideloading on GOS won’t work or that Google disabling sideloading on their ROM even affects GOS in any way.
Aren’t there things GrapheneOS can’t do though like banking, wallet, and bus pass? I hope im misinformed because I’d love to switch to an alt OS.
GrapheneOS is actually better for banking than the other alternative OS’s because you can run Google Play Services (which some banking apps require) sandboxed and only allow it to interact with the apps you want it to. That said, I’m still going for e/os on a fairphone right now.
Unfortunately though they certainly do not all work, and some work only partially. Depends on the bank, the app and the feature. Wallet services are completely unavailable.
Ah well, I just do banking in my browser anyway.
Most banking works fine. There was a time it had more problems but I don’t even need to use a secondary profile with Google Play Services running any longer.
NFC works, but that is app specific. So no, wallet won’t work because google wallet wants Google services to work. But in the EU some banks have their own contactless payments that work fine. In the US none do to my knowledge. For bus pass etc that would be down to your app and if they require google services or not. There’s always the option for secondary profiles.
To me, I was amazed at his many apps use google services for notifications. So many apps work, but don’t give me notifications unless I open the app… Which I’m okay with because 99% of them I would turn off anyways.
You can sandbox Google Play services and 99% of things will work that way
I use my USAA banking app, my stock app with Charles-Schwabb, and even Bitwarden with biometrics on GOS. It may have been limiting before, but not anymore. They have a sandboxed Google Play integrity whatever, too, do you can turn that shit on for select apps and it alerts you when an app is calling it.
Aurora Store also has the Play Store apps with reduced bloat. I’ve been using GOS on my Pixel 7 since late last year. It has a slight learning curve, but lots of info out there for how and what to change in settings for different apps and permissions. Definitely don’t regret my install!
Very encouraging!
Graphene coming with OEM phones other than pixel so it will solve those issues
Just use IodeOS, CalyxOS, /e/OS or just LineageOS to break free. Those are available for a many devices. Not only Pixel.
The level of security, of privacy and of granular control of those does not come even close to what GrapheneOS brings to the table. Additionally Iodè and /e/OS have some noise going on with not being private at all. And all of them, except LineageOS (some times) have long delays with security patches.
/e/OS uses OpenAI for voice-to-text. Iodé has closed source components (trust me bro?). What do they claim? “some protection is better than none”. In security that is ridiculous.
Then there is choosing between Microg vs actual sandboxed Google Play Services (which you don’t need to have at all on GrapheneOS if you don’t want to).
/e/OS signs their OS with Google test keys instead of their own keys.
Unconfirmed, but concerning is the claims of ties of those 2 (Iodé and /e/OS) with the French government, not unlike Chinese companies with the CCP.
Choosing LineageOS, or even CalyxOS are options I would consider if I wasn’t willing or able to get a Pixel device, but Iodé and /e/OS are absolute ‘no’ in my book. Too many holes, too pragmatic (and I’m trying to be nice using that word) for my taste.
GOS is all about security. Priority of IodeOS or CalyxOS is privacy. All the “noise going on” you are talking means nothing without any evidence. LineageOS and IodesOS are releasing every month the security patches for the official supported devices. There are no meaningful delays. Closed source is not bad per se. GOS allows Play Services. MicroG is optional on IodeOS, LineageOS or CalyxOS. You don’t have to use or to install it. /e/OS is the worst of all of them. But still better than Vanilla Android. Claims doesn’t matter only real evidences. And there are non.
Non of these ROMs are perfect. You have to pick the one who fits your needs best. For some its GOS for others it’s IodeOS.
‘not significant’, right.
This table is old. Patches are coming within days after release. I know that, because I have two phones to test all those roms. On IodeOS I got the first beta some days ago for the next march update. They are not slow. They are as secure as vanilla Android from Google. GOS is the paranoid on. Perfect for paranoid people like the developers themself. Only exception is /e/OS. It still is very slow to releas patches or even new Android version.
I’m pretty paranoid myself, so your logic checks out.
the security not close, but its already a big leap from stock rom, and most likely dont need to waste money on a pixel.
yes, but you have to use a pixel.
Wao 🤣
GOS is great. Funny, I used to rom hop and distro hop a lot; but on GOS, I installed it once and so far so good (5+ months in).
Just some tips for new users: Just install it and dont be afraid to try things out (Google Store, profiles, Aurora…etc). Oh and dont make it tooooo complicate with many profiles and private space. You can test first but dont over do it if you’re not experienced.
And no, I am not a dev from GOS lol. I’m an ordinary user who wants to take control of my phone.
I got a new (to me) pixel a bit ago and haven’t switched back cause life has been crazy. I miss GOS. Maybe this weekend I’ll have a minute to do that.
Just some tips for new users: Just install it and dont be afraid to try things out (Google Store, profiles, Aurora…etc). Oh and dont make it tooooo complicate with many profiles and private space.
I recommend a clean main profile (i.e. no Google Play etc) and a corrupt profile, install your stuff then find FOSS replacements for main. Over time you naturally decouple from Google, but it’s there if you need it.
I ran various custom ROM’s for years on a FairPhone3+. It was great right up until the day all my banking apps stopped working. Banking app incompatibility is NOT the fault of GrapheneOS (or any other custom ROM) dev’s at all . . . but IMO this is the real problem today with any alternative mobile OS. Privacy vs. banking convenience. And yes, YMMV as some of them do work . . and mine did as well . . right up until the day they didn’t.
Do banking exclusively through the online portals? For me, if that means using my desktop or a laptop for banking, that’s what I do, because I will not install a banking app on my phone.
not every bank lets you
Switch banks. That’s what I did. I had a bank that required an app to use them as well before I decided that I cared about my privacy and wanted more of it. And when I found out that my bank wouldn’t let me do things, I switched banks. Because fuck them.
Generally it’s neobanks that cause the most problems. If you’re using older banks that have been around for quite a long time, they don’t have nearly the technology, so are less likely to have this occur. In the United States, an example of this might be something like Wells Fargo or Discover or something like that, whereas one of these neobanks that would cause problems would be like chime.
Generally, stay away from thin tech and stay with actual banks. You might also look at credit unions. My local credit union is really good, and has a good online website, and has an app as well, but doesn’t require it at all.
I use several banks and several credit unions, and the only thing I can’t do with a laptop is deposit checks (which is getting pretty rare).
FinTech products like PayPal, Venmo, Cash.app, BlueBird and such often require a phone app, but aren’t regulated banks, and are best avoided when possible.
Same here, I might end up with a check in my hands like once per year, and so I have to make like one single trip to my credit union every single year or whatever to deposit that check, and that’s it.
i’m not aware of any i can switch to in my country that doesn’t require a phone and an annoying pairing process.
my condolences are you euro?
south american.
I didn’t know they rolled like that, good to know for the purposes of learning about banking & surveillance systems. haven’t seen it mentioned on GOS forums
the facial scanning tech you guys are starting to see used against you now has been trialed in your colonies first to make sure it works well for them.
boomerang is just now coming back on this one.
Nice idea in theory . . . but here in the UK, increasingly customers are being left with little other choice. Between banking apps using push messages to verify credit/debit card transactions, closing of physical branches and requiring authentication via the app to log into the website . . . not using their app is becoming more and more difficult every day.
What services do they have for senior citizens? Because they are the most likely ones to not want to use technology. You can probably piggyback on what they use.
They are offering free classes for seniors to teach them how to use the apps.
Okay, in that case, I would just buy a very cheap second device and have your primary one using a privacy system such as graphene and then use a secondary one that you never turn on except for doing that kind of stuff.
That way, at least your primary system is isolated from the rootkit that is things like Google Play Services.
Exactly! I’d love to switch, but I rely on my banking apps too much. That’s a dealbreaker for me as well.
Nfc payments keep me chained. I guess i can get a second phone just for setting up a watch, but i don’t want a watch. So i live by not using the default launcher and a vpn. I’m working to change my email provider slowly
Another reply did the thinking emoji face at biometrics and that’s good. Here’s why it’s worthwhile to never enable biometrics:
You don’t know when you’re going to be compelled to use them and you don’t drill on turning them off.
The whole point of no knock and other police tactics is to prevent you from keeping them from getting what they want. You can’t expect yourself to just never be surprised, that’s ridiculous. Turn biometrics off so getting surprised by the cops doesn’t immediately give them the keys to the castle!
No one drills enough, but let’s say you’re the one person who does drill enough on turning off biometrics: wouldn’t that practice time be better spent with biometrics off, drilling on shutting your phone down so they have to deal with its much more secure Before First Unlock state instead?
Turn off biometrics and practice turning your phone off.
I wonder is this something to actually worry about outside of the US?
In my country police are known to torture people until they sign a confession written by them. So I don’t think disabling biometrics will make a difference. But I’ve still done it.
nobody should discount hardware-level hacks either. ultimately GOS is the only way to get decent software on mobile without leaving it exposed in the event of petty theft. people implying it will be a serious roadblock to imperialist state-level actors are naive or even suspicious to me
Yes it absolutely is.
Every nation has a byzantine system of laws and codes enumerating different ways for police to violate the “rights” that nation has enshrined in law.
One way to avoid compelled speech (a “right” Americans have but other nations citizens might not) is to simply misremember your lock code as many times as it takes to trigger factory reset.
Americans don’t need to know that because they can’t be compelled to enter a passkey, but people in countries with no qualms about compelled speech like Germany would be well served by disabling biometrics so they have the option of lying and taking that hit instead of giving up their privacy.
Do your own research about your jurisdiction, but go ahead and turn off biometrics because it literally makes any group that can control your movement (which in English common law is the basis for the concept of “arrest”, and so likely a situation many different nationalities will face) access to your devices.
FWIW gOS has a duress PIN baked in. Doesn’t stop the rubber hose but at least you can be smug ;}
The duress pin seems like such a cool feature, but I feel like it flies a little too close to the sun.
Misremembering your own pin ten times stretches the limit of credulity, but a lawyer could argue that under the circumstances of enhanced interrogation you weren’t able.
Expressly giving the wrong answer in a place with compelled speech threatens to add a million new legal hurdles to your freedom.
When you fuck it up ten times they’re gonna try to slap you with those charges anyway but at least you have some defense instead of it being an open and shut case of “he’s recorded entering the evidence destruction button when we asked him nicely to instead let us push the evidence retrieval button”
For assange types (and I mean people actively under threat by a nation which has a set of charges it’s investigating or planting evidence for, not people who have leaked documents or share his ideals) it’s a good thing, but anyone not dodging the “if I walk out of the embassy they’ll “find” cp on my phone” bullet it seems like more trouble than it’s worth.
Valid in many cases (hence the rubber hose quip), I was merely responding to above. It does have use as a quick way to burn it all down before any requests are made.
Yeah sorry to hit you with a wall of text.
Between all the people who refuse to use graphene because it’s on pixels and the ones who seem like they haven’t been keeping up with the news or even had any interaction with cops this thread is deeply disturbing and hitting all the buttons that make me wanna say No Don’t Do That!
Who knows, maybe there’s a good case where someone uses the duress and gets away with it. I think assange did once before…
“all laws are local, and no law knows how local it is”, which is to say it on the user to understand their local legal (and political) situation. It’s a big world.
Thanks, I plan on doing this when my phone dies. Just some questions:
A computer with a Chromium-based browser (e.g., Google Chrome, Brave, Microsoft Edge, Vivaldi?). Unfortunately, I must recommend Windows 10/11 here, because then you don’t have to mess around with any drivers; it’s the simplest option.
This is the first I’ve read this, how much of a pain is it to use Linux instead? I don’t have any Windows computers.
First of all, we need to make sure that our phone’s software is updated to the latest available version. For this purpose, we go to Settings -> System -> System update. If necessary, we update
How is this possible if the previous step skipped SIM and Wifi setup? I assume, if there’s updates, to setup Wifi then proceed?
securing the phone with a fingerprint; I personally am an advocate of this solution…
Recommend not doing this for users in the USA, as police can compel you to unlock biometric locks. Yes, it’s fucked up, that’s what happens when octogenarian fascists run all three branches of your government.
This is the first I’ve read this, how much of a pain is it to use Linux instead? I don’t have any Windows computers.
No issues at all. Not sure what drivers the author was referring to but using the web installer you pretty much just plug the phone in and click through some buttons.
Recently had a similar issue with Via, the app for keyboards. Basically, there was an issue with chrome talking to the hardware…Except some lifesaver recommended plugging my keyboard directly into my machine, bypassing the docking station (the thing causing me issues) and fixing my problem. So I’ve technically still never had a driver issue, only a shitty docking station experience.
GrapheneOS has guides for installing regardless of platform, here’s the relevant page on their official site.
GrapheneOS supports a “duress password” that you can enter to lock up the phone and securely erase any data stored - it’s designed for those situations (so just push that pin in if you’re in that situation).
CLI installation guide is perfect, thank you.
I feel as though having biometrics installed, Face ID and/or fingerprint, kind of defeats the purpose of a privacy OS. Where as pin and a duress pin would be the choice going forward and managing the phones security.
I flashed my pixel to graphene on Linux without any issue. I used an arch based distro and temporarily installed Brave to perform the flash.
This is the first I’ve read this, how much of a pain is it to use Linux instead?
I flashed it on my 8a a couple of weeks ago using Chromium on EndeavourOS without issues.
I put grapheneos on my current phone using my previous phone (samsung s22) and a usb c cable. Wasn’t hard at all, just had to follow the prompts.
This is the first I’ve read this, how much of a pain is it to use Linux instead? I don’t have any Windows computers.
You only need a browser that supports WebUSB.
Chrome and Brave support WebUSB on Linux.
How is this possible if the previous step skipped SIM and Wifi setup? I assume, if there’s updates, to setup Wifi then proceed?
I believe that vendors can include updates on the device that sit in the same fastboot space as you’ll be using to install Graphene. By running the system update, it applies any lingering patches, clearing the space for the Graphene install. The update (without SIM or Wifi) will only work if this is the case. So this step is more ‘ensure that there are no updates on the disk that will screw up the install’ than ‘make sure your phone is up to date’… since Graphene has its own methods for applying patches.
I don’t remember if I did my phone on Linux or windows, but depending on your Linux install you may or not have drivers pre installed. That’s more of a result of Linux installing only what you need, vs windows installing everything someone might need.
As for wifi/updating, I don’t see it as a necessary step on a new phone. However, for a new phone it may be worth loading the stock OS, and running with it for a day or 2 just to make sure everything (WiFi, battery life, cell, BT, etc) actually works before you go crazy troubleshooting a problem that was there out of the box.
Once you do get Graphene installed, you’ll then want to check for any updates.
While having Finger print on/off is everyone’s personal choice, it is pretty easy to lock down the phone. You can spam the wrong finger a few times and it will force the pin requirement or if you press and hold the power button a lockdown button appears, either way it only takes a few seconds.
Despite what the news would lead you to believe, most people aren’t talking to police every day. That being said, if you are going to be in an area with high police presence, than turning off the finger print is 100% recommended.
Linux works broadly across a wide range of hardware, but it’s not 100%. You can ``very easily test hardware compatibility with a Live USB install of most Linux distros. Windows is a way bigger driver pain in the ass if you ask me.
