- cross-posted to:
- privacy@programming.dev
- android@lemdro.id
- cross-posted to:
- privacy@programming.dev
- android@lemdro.id
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Bring on support for more devices, and I’ll likely switch with my next phone.
They’re working on an alternative device with a large OEM they’ve not disclosed yet. They’re aiming at releasing it in 2027.
The smart money is they’re going to go with Motorola, honestly idc who they go with it’ll likely be my next phone
Same here, i can’t wait to ditch my old xiaomi 10 full of bloatwares and ads
I’ve got the pixel 8 with graphene on it, it’s very nice but I also have a soft spot for emulation and the Tensor devices are trash for anything higher than GameCube tbh
I wouldn’t hold out an the GrapheneOS phone being any better. I hope I’m wrong but I’m not expecting top tier specs. I’m betting low specs (crappy screen) with a high price.
If you don’t like the bloatware… unlock the bootloader and install a custom rom! Luckily Xiaomi allows you to unlock the bootloader if you have a global variant.
Xiaomi discontinued their blootloader unlocking service.
Its not up to grapheneos devs which devices support bootloader relocking with different keys, literally only pixels allow this and without it you cant properly secure the phone.
…without it you cant properly secure the phone.
My understanding is that a locked bootloader helps protect against evil maid attacks and bootloader-level malware persistence. I find this a security risk that I would absolutely take for Google independence. “Properly secure” is subjective.
GrapheneOS do decide what phones they support. It is exactly their choice to support only Google Pixels, rather than taking a security hit for hardware independence (whether you agree with the decision or not).
Exactly, seems like this should be up to the consumer. The devs can say: pixels have best security, here’s a 2nd and 3rd option, here’s their pros and cons.
Because as much as I approve of privacy measures and security, my phone doesn’t have any lock screen. No pin, no biometrics, nothing.
I work from home, I don’t really travel, I have 4 children. Physical security is annoying. I want grapheneos for data security. I don’t have people trying to steal my phone, I do have people constantly stealing my data.
And without a non-pixel option (fuck google), I’m likely to go for to a competitor because, while their data security might not be as good as graphene, it is better than what I currently have.
I think the bigger issue is that supporting more devices can add a ton of extra work to the dev team, which is small. That could sacrifice the integrity of the whole project.
GrapeneOS have a specific goal related to security. You can install one of the others, like LineageOS, if you are happy with the tradeoff.
and the tradeoff includes dozens more permissions related features that don’t rely on hardware security features
No other phone supports the relocking bootloader and that is there requirement. There is no other phone they can support. You might not like their requirements but they are pretty clear about it.
which is not true, as fairphones also support relocking. Besides, graphene has dozens of other very useful features that don’t rely on hardware security features or the ability to relock. and I guarantee you, if another android rom adopted their unique features, they would be loudly complaining that they are stealing code (from an open source project…)
Some Qualcomm phones support relocking.
not true, fairphones support that too. calyxos makes use of it, it’s proven to be working
(No OP, but…)
Well, unfortunately, we’re at an impasse, then. :(
If you don’t wanna use a pixel, just build it. It’s open source ¯_(ツ)_/¯
pixels are unobtanium where i live. i wish there could be graphene on more phones.
They are in talks with a major android manufacturer to build graphene phone.
and it’s gonna be cheap and readily available worldwide, right?
I can only dream
And that is going to make it more obtainable then a pixel? And I’ll believe it when I see it and “major” yah right.
I wouldn’t have thought so tbh. I’m guessing just online orders only? Pixel aren’t officially supported where I live also unfortunately
That’s lineage… Much better, imo.
has much, much fewer settings for permissions and privacy leaking functions. how do you even disable network access for an app?
As an alternative, if you wanted something less secure, and more ethical, consider buying a Fairphone. However GrapheneOS does not support Fairphone at this moment.
Maybe when they support carriers other than T-Mo and their leased partners in the US. T-Mobile infrastructure is dogshit. I’ve lost track of the number of broken fibers and extremely poor cable routing I’ve seen on their deployments. I’ve gotten caught in rats nests of fibers trying to get past their lease on tower climbs dozens of times.
/e/os and lineage is support fairphone, you can have both
This would still be less secure.
True, but then on the upside it’s not a Google phone. Which could be more secure from nefarious back doors.
Also there is a part of the Pixel phone which you’re locked from reformating – Is it the bios or bootloader?
It’s both.
What do you compromise these days going to something like graphene versus a stock pixel? I know the advantages obviously, just wanting clarity on trade offs. Features that become unusable, vulnerabilities, etc.
The loss of most banking apps and Google Wallet (tap and pay). For me, those are the killer features you lose. And the reason I gave up on custom ROM’s on a FairPhone 3+ after many years.
I dunno if this is helpful or not but on mine I went to Settings > Apps, clicked on my banking app and then turned on “Exploit protection compatibility mode” and that got it working for me. Probably depends on the bank but might be worth a try!
All my banking apps work fine on Graphene. AFAIK there is only a very, very short list of apps which don’t work on Graphene.
There is a website that maintains the list: https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compatibility-with-grapheneos/
I have a Galaxy S22. How do I do that?
LineageOS or similar alternatives
Not on the list 😓
There are unofficial builds as well on xde forum, but indeed some models are not covered or tricky to do.
Sorry bud. GrapheneOS specifically requires an OEM unlockable Google Pixel phone
Yeah no we regular folk are stranded on corpo beach. And all the coconuts have candy crush running inside.
I don’t think you can 😫
Hey! Avoid Google by buying a phone from… GOOGLE!
Seriously. I wish the devs would work on bringing the OS to Samsung phones instead. They’re just as popular, if not more than Google Pixel phones.
Part of the issue is that the latest version of Samsung’s OneUI completely removes the option to unlock the bootloader. More technical info on the (xda forum).
I keep bitching about my Galaxy Tab A9+ and I will till the day I die. I fucking hate that thing for not having any Custom ROMs, and I despise the fact that it doesn’t allow OEM unlocking (afaik). I mean, it was a gift, so I still appreciate it, but MAN will I never buy Samsung with my own money ever.
Anyway I wish people would stop crying for Samsung Graphene while knowing full well that Samsung is essentially the Apple of the Android world; Locked down to all hell.
It’d be nice to not have to buy Google anything, but I want security, to be able to use most of my apps, and I don’t wanna buy a Chinese phone, so here we are.
I’m not due to replace my Samsung Xcover with a headphone jack and removable battery for a while yet, I got it in March 2024…
But when I do in a few years, I’d like the Jolla phone as its app support probably has matured at that point.
Pixel 10 isn’t made in China, and almost all apps work on Graphene just fine.
Uh yeah? I never said Pixels are Chinese. I use GOS on my Pixel 8a and I love it. I just don’t like the fact that Google is our only option right know if you want a degoogled phone that also cares about security.
Side note about other ROMs like LineageOS
I think LineageOS is a fantastic project for giving old phones new life (I tested it on my old Moto G7 Play!) , but it still doesn’t have all the lovely features GOS has.
And I also never said anything about app issues with Graphene? Most have worked flawlessly (I do have play services installed tbf), the only ones that didn’t were Paypal and my debit card bank (credit one works though), and in Veronica’s video I saw she had PayPal downloaded, so I guess they fixed it in the time that I tried to get it to work.
But I hope Linux phones become viable soon, as AOSP is a sinking ship as long as Google is the head of it.
Aw crap. OK then.
I didn’t know that.
Pixels have better security features than Samsung and doesn’t prevent you from using third party OSes.
More details here: https://grapheneos.org/faq#recommended-devices
What I don’t get is that is
You can find pixels on swappa and not give Google your money.
I’m looking for a Pixel 9 Pro as an upgrade for my existing 7 Pro and it’s cheaper used (obviously).
Just buy refurbished. Better for the environment too.
Buy the phone used?
Also Samsung hasn’t allowed unlocked bootloader’s in a fucking minute nor do they publish their device trees
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first of all, posting this here is kinda pointless, ain’t a soul here that doesn’t know about this thing. second, no ill feelings about madame V., the world is better with her work in it, but this ain’t the audience for it as her work is kinda superficial and, again, directed at a different audience.
third and final, fuck grapheneos. fuck the pixel. and fuck google. and fuck the premise that the only way you can escape their clutches is buying new shit.
if you think this thing is a good idea, that’d be as if linux can run only on a couple of the most recent thinkpads and nothing else. would you still be into it? I know I wouldn’t be.
gOS is the easiest to get onto hardware and that’s why this thing dominates the youtube slop sphere. you try to make flashing lineageOS into a coherent video, you’d lose all of your audience, presto.
for the 99,9% of us that ain’t a buncha jason bournes on the run from 5eyes and friends, lineageOS is plenty fine and secure as is.
fuck the premise that the only way you can escape their clutches is buying new shit.
Everyone suddenly forgets the used markets when talking about grapheneOS for some reason. Used old pixels are dirt cheap and don’t pass any money to google.
Yeah I just got a refurbished Pixel for super cheap and it works great!
you are still buying stuff you dont need to and they are not cheap by any metric. $200 for a phone with a degraded battery that was rubbed all over, spat on, taken to the shitter, and dogknowswhatelse is not cheap, by any metric.
a year ago, $50 could get me a Poco F1 or Oneplus 6/6T, SDM 845 with 8 GB RAM. full lineageOS and postmarketOS support. nowadays, same money can get me something like a Poco X3 Pro, SDM860 with 8 GB and 256 GB storage. insanely powerful platforms, that’s what I’d buy if I had to. but I don’t gotta, the latest lineageOS runs on my shit.
Need some help ?
I ran graphene on a Pixel 4A 5G for a while until that phone inexplicably died.
I now have a Pixel 8 Pro, and I haven’t installed Graphene on it. Why? Google wallet.
That shit is so convenient. That I can leave my own wallet at home and tap to get on transit, tap my work’s virtual credit card, etc is holding me back from a second install.
I have a p8p as well and am a sucker for contactless pay.
I have a samsung android watch which costs like $50 second hand to get around the wallet not working on graphene.
I dont really care anymore about gathered metadata that much. I was more black and white earlier, but nowadays I just try to minimize the cloudification instead of being completely against it.
I choose my battles, and being against google wallet isnt really worth some effort from my side.
Same here: I pay contactless with a Garmin vivoactive3. It cost $30 on Craigslist, runs for ~3 days without charging. My thought was that Garmin has less “ecosystem” and is less likely to be monetizing purchase history, vs. Samsung… but I don’t have any inside info.
I have the GarminConnect app in my “Google Crapola” profile, and for a few months I even deleted the app, and tap-to-pay on the watch kept working.
Oh, that’s a hot tip. I didn’t know the watches could handle tap to pay independent of the phone.
… Though I’m awaiting a new pebble, not sure I’d like to dual wield watches.
If you leave your wallet at home, you won’t:
- Have ID.
- Have cash for when your phone dies.
- Have a card for when your phone dies.
There are many reasons to have your wallet with you.
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You could just replace phone dies (how frequent is that) with losing your wallet (how frequent is that).
I’ve never lost my wallet once.
When my phone got to be about 10 years old the battery was dying any time it got too cold.
I’m sure there are, but thus far you haven’t made compelling/relevant ones.
There’s also
- Cash purchases are private
- Cash purchases don’t incur merchant fees for the retailer
- Cash/Card purchases don’t deliver money to American big tech.
- You can use GrapheneOS if you get rid of Google Pay.
IDs are on phones now in a bunch of states and i haven’t carried cash in 20 years. Half the places around here don’t even take cash anymore.
Ive never had my phone die on me either.
If we want adoption this needs a solution.
“I’d rather give up all of my data to Google so that I don’t have to… have the awful burden of carrying a wallet” lol
On the one hand, I admit this is kind of objectively silly behavior.
On the other, I think it’s valuable to consider these things and the role they play in consumer/user behavior. Convenience is undeniably a major/the primary reason many users don’t do what’s best for them.
There are always trade offs.
I would love to main a Linux phone, as I’m sure many here would. But the present trade offs are too great.
NFC payments are extremely convenient, especially when managing multiple cards - some of which are virtual. It’s a service I had, then went without for awhile, and then appreciate having back again.
I understand my initial comment makes it seem like I never carry a wallet true - which is not true - and liking Google Wallet is akin to saying “but I just like smoking” (in this community).
It’s great that you don’t find it as convenient, which means the trade off isn’t as substantial for you. However for my 5 days a week commuting it’s a load off.
I just carry physical cards. I don’t really understand this “every step away from google must be painless” attitude.
No one said it did? It’s a service that I find great value in, and one that I had given up for a time and enjoy having access to again.
Everyone has their limit, this one is presently mine.
Why? Google wallet.
Sure, it is a step away that carries friction for me.
But you’re speaking in absolutes and blanketing “every step”.
I’ve taken many steps away from Google that were not “painless”.
Tape it to the back of the phone. Or get a case for the phone and slip the card inside.
Or, like, sew it into a feathered hat.
Looks like they have a link talking about this, and someone commented that they use a service mentioned for contactless payments.
https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2025/06/contactless-payments-with-grapheneos/
I haven’t reviewed this myself as it’s not a concern for me.
Thanks, I had seen this but Curve is UK specific.
It’s in the whole EU as far as I know.
Ah fair. All I get is “not available in my region”.
Yea… Sure. You think Google doesn’t have hardware level telemetry? Ok buddy.
I got beach front property to sell you in Kansas.
For what. Thats a lot of effort for a small userbase. And most importantly a userbase that doesn’t see Google ads. Custom hardware is expensive and doesn’t provide much additional data for most users and provides unprofitable data for degoogled phones.
Google doesnt spy on us just because they are evil. They spy on us to sell more expensive targeted ads.
Yeah I think you just have to not let perfect be the enemy of good, as they say. I’m sure they still get something out of the mess of VPN’d sandboxed apps and addy.io burner email logins that make up my phone, but at least I can make things as difficult as possible for them.
The user base of Pixel phones is small? What?
It’s got the lowest worldwide vendor market share. Do you have any idea what you’re talking about?
https://gs.statcounter.com/vendor-market-share/mobile
^ Google is the lowest one on that list. Do you regularly just make stuff up?
Can the OS not monitor hardware level network usage on the device?
I’m curious if nobody has checked for something like that… it doesn’t sound hard to catch.
Huh… why’s this phone still calling homebase?
Maybe if it only activated over the mobile network?
Correct… The OS can not monitor TPMs. But TPMs can monitor the entire OS.
You think they’d find a way to obscure it from monitors on the same network, though? Maybe by only activating on a trusted mobile network?
If it had, then we’d know about it.
