In the latest episode of “they will always sell you out” - they sold you out! Who would’ve thought.
Hoping for a good alternative client to appear, the writing is on the wall. Vaultwarden can’t exist without “leeching” off of Bitwarden.
The year of keepass and syncthing!.
Sad. Replaced everything with keepassxc + syncthing
Jesus, I’m tired of switching password managers.
KeePassXC + KeePassDX is probably the best option, with the downside of no way to sync easily (syncthing is probably the best option there)
I might switch back at some point, been getting frustrated with the bitwarden extension performance always being so poor.
Sync however you want. Syncthing, Nextcloud, Dropbox, Gdrive etc.
Syncthing is the way to leave Google Drive, etc.
Is there a proper syncthing android client now, after the official android client was discontinued?
Syncthing Fork works well for Android
Solid question; there are only third-party apps. A recent discussion in !syncthing@lemmy.ml led me to most recently adopt BasicSync, which is incredibly low-profile and is probably the closest thing we can get to it.
However… if you want to get as pure as possible, you can apparently run Syncthing’s Linux version directly in Termux on Android without the need for a dedicated Android app. There are also entire alternatives to Syncthing like syncspirit (which can also be run through Termux and which I’m considering trying as well).
I use Nextcloud myself, but if people don’t want to host a server or fuck with syncthing, they can sync it however they want as long as they use a strong enough master password/phrase (which they should be anyway.).
Oh, well, I’m talking about not having to password-lock and unlock your stuff constantly. For long-term storage, sure, that’s fine; anything else would be way too tedious, though, no? I guess it depends on your use case and if you could locally automate the locking and unlocking or something.
I’m not sure what you mean. On my computer, I have to unlock the database every so often (you can set how long) with my master password. On my phone I unlock it with my fingerprint. The method of syncing the database is irrelevant.
Oops, I thought you were talking about long-term storage of files in general, like videos and docs or something, not a password database! Never mind.
Merge conflicts are a concern for KeePass, especially for those that don’t want to resolve them. Sync is difficult. AFAIK this is a very common issue with Syncthing setups.
Also, the portability from Bitwarden to KP leaves a bit to be desired, though that’s probably 90% on BW.
I switched over to keepass yesterday, and surprisingly the import from BW was perfect (as far as I can tell), even passkeys came over just fine.
I’ve been using KeePass with Syncthing for 5+ years now and I think I’ve only had a sync issue once in all this time.
Granted I do make sure I only use the database on one device at a time (so not making edits on desktop and my phone at the same time) and I’m using XC and DX clients not the OG KeePass program.
I’m curious what is causing sync issues to make it “common”, I use my db every day.
Yeah, it’s not an uncommon use case to accidentally or even intentionally edit the database on two online devices - I do it all the time when I want a new login to be used on my laptop right after I signed up for some new website on my PC, and the laptop just happens to have an “unpushed” change from last evening, or I edit the new login’s metadata, or whatever.
With this, I’d have to keep a mental model of the versioning of each database and avoid even touching my phone like the plague if KeePass is open on my computer.
It’s not that big of a deal, it’ll probably be a problem once every few months, but it’s annoying to keep track of and worth talking about.
Hmm, I’ll have to play around with it a bit more then to see if I can trigger it.
My only gripe is the browser autofill. Sometimes it triggers correctly and sometimes it doesn’t. I’ve noticed if I let KeePass add in a new login itself after I’ve manually entered it then it’s much more receptive to suggesting that login correctly going forward. So I’m tempted to create a brand new database and login everything manually so KeePass will create the database entries itself to fix my gripe.
I’m using KeeWeb on Mac and Windows and Keepass2Android on my Android device and I don’t have any issues at all. I’m storing in OneDrive though, this is the one thing I’m using it for still.
Rclone with any cloud provider is another great option that’s seldom mentioned. I posted my setup as a comment on another post. You may find it here - https://programming.dev/comment/23849767
I use KeePass with KeeAnywhere. KeePass can natively sync over network share, FTP, or WebDav. With plugins, it can sync over SSH, FTPS, Amazon S3 compatible buckets (including open source compatible versions you host yourself), Azure, Box, Dropbox, Google Drive, OneDrive, and more.
KeeAnywhere
That’s a neat one, although it doesn’t look like KeePass supports passkeys yet, at least I don’t see it in the feature list.
Are you trying to use a passkey to unlock the database or for authenticating with other websites? KeePass can natively do TOTP. There’s also plugins to do that. Including one that allows KeePass to be a native Windows 11 PassKey Provider.
Yeah the performance is what made me install the desktop app, but then it’s 1gb in size
KeePass isn’t going anywhere. They’re also dragging their feet on passkey support, so you might go with KeepassXC.
Yeah, there was. It was forked because of that, actually: https://codeberg.org/ChiPass
Link gives 404
I edited the comment. It ended with a period before, I assume your client thought it was a part of the link. Does it work now?
404
I edited the comment, see my reply to @wiccan2@thelemmy.club.
Yep works now.
Their AI policy looks very reasonable, and they certainly aren’t vibe coding. Everything is rigorously reviewed and tested by a handful of experienced, competent humans.
They also don’t effectively allow collaboration though, which is my cheif reason for using a cloud hosted password manager.
What is “collaboration” in this context?
Sharing passwords between groups of people so everyone always has the up to date version. Not breaking the world if two people try to modify the same entry as some file syncing solutions do.
Hmm, interesting, though isn’t that a fault of the organization not having an account-linking system so that each person could have their own credentials but can still access the unified content? This workaround seems… flimsy, unless I’m not picturing a legit scenario in which no other method is as good, or something.
It’s the fault of my family organization or every company we use that my parent’s bank, Google, phone, laptop, etc don’t allow more than one set of credentials to access the same thing?
It’s not just that we need to be able to share credentials the once a blue moon I need to help them by logging into their account?You know why most cloud based services charge money? For stuff like this, because it’s not free to implement and maintain.
Easy and fault-proof password sharing and syncing needs software and hardware to do. You either set it up and maintain it yourself, or pay for a product that does it - like Bitwarden.
But your argument falls apart against something like Syncthing’s discovery networks combined with send-/receive-only folder types, which use no cloud yet allow the automatic, passive propagation of file updates to different users’ devices… right? No cloud, no self-hosting, yet automatic syncing across multiple devices…
Parallel creating, reading, updating, deleting password entries by multiple users.
Whoa, thanks. I had no idea this was a thing…
Sure they do. Multiple people can have a file open at the same time. I use it for exactly this every day at work.
With KeePassXC, that is. I don’t know if other flavors have different support. I use XC primarily for the browser extension.
And you can both modify the same things without causing horrible conflict issues? And you can share only parts of your vault with someone rather than having entirely different vaults you have to switch between? I’m assuming you mean putting the file somewhere like Google Drive, and you can access it offline even if you can’t edit it offline? For feature parity with Bitwarden, obviously ideally one could edit any time and it would resolve problems when it came back online if there were any but Bitwarden doesn’t allow this.
Yes, no conflicts. I don’t know if you can only share part of vault; I just created a separate one for a separate team.
I wouldn’t put it in Google Drive or anything like that. The separate sync logic will definitely cause conflicts.
I’m not worried about having access if I’m offline, because if I’m offline I’m not going to be able to log into anything anyway.
I guess a laptop, server, IoT device, or WiFi connection when your main device doesn’t have internet is out of scope for you?
Like fixing my laptop and not wanting to type the new password into my phone instead of copy/paste, sync when online?
And how are you sharing a file, to multiple people anywhere in the world realtime ish, without a cloud service you or someone else hosts? Doesn’t that necessitate some syncronization logic?It’s hosted on a local network share, so we don’t need Internet access.
If can’t copy paste, I just type it out.
We use a VPN to the office.
Two articles behind a paywall, one that won’t load, and another article that says the big problem with passkeys is…people are unfamiliar with them.
If anyone tells you that Passkeys are bad, they’re a liar. Way more safe than passwords, full stop.
Just don’t let Microsoft or Apple tie them to your device. You don’t have to do that.
There is no full stop there… A password that is sufficiently long will never be cracked no matter the hashing algorithm in use. Passwords are easily transferrable and can be communicated to a third party in the event of an emergency. They also provide tunable security, where you can trade off security for convenience if you want.
Some (not all, I know) passkeys are tied to a device. Stolen device means stolen passkey, and it’s potentially very difficult to recover from that. Passkeys are also locked to a certain standard, passwords have no such restrictions.
Tbh I don’t understand the move for passkeys replacing passwords. They should become the second factor when a user wants additional security. They’re perfect for that niche.
Passkeys provide a secure way to authenticate while also being convenient. With the tradeoffs you mentioned.
I don’t like the push for only allowing some vendors to issue keys and to not allowing exporting and backups. And password should still be an option.
Password can also very easily be stolen during phishing, while passkeys are phishing resistant.
And while a hardware passkeys can be stole and used, those who steal them will still need the pin to use them, and the two major hardware passkeys options now (Yubico and Token2) both have some pin brute force protection in their firmware to slow someone down long enough for an account to be secured another way.
As for passkeys on phones, they require the pin or biometric used to unlock the phones to be used.
“Difficult to recover from” was referencing setting all of your accounts back up. I should have also included “lost” and “broken” to make that more obvious. Many hardware (most? all?) passkeys do not allow for backup and restore.
But I do see an issue with stolen hardware passkeys being used for access too if they’re a primary factor. With the mitigations you mentioned hopefully holding up.
Are you calling me a liar? That’s pretty weird; it’s not like I’m telling you to stick to passwords while I move to passkeys. With that said, though, get Bypass Paywalls Clean (Mozilla-only, as far as I know) and you’ll never see another paywall again. I forgot about having that.
Just don’t let Microsoft or Apple tie them to your device. You don’t have to do that.
The problem is that this is where it’s eventually going to lead to.
Not really, Vaultwarden/bitwa4den offer passkey support. When I log into a service a popup shows on my extension, I click it and I’m in. It’s not gonna lead to device locking if you don’t want to…
except when the wide populace starts accepting it being device locked, and your opinion does not matter anymore to those making the decisions
No one of the people I know that use passkeys use it from the phone, either they use a password manager, they have passwords on a physical note, on an excel file in the desktop, a physical yubikey, or bitwarden like me. That’s everyone I physically know including every family member, friends and work people.
I know it’s anecdotal, but you present your “wide populace” fact without giving sources too, and since I know no one that uses phone based passkeys, even if my experience is anecdotal, I say sus. Check your bias.
Password Store is the answer, if you don’t need passkey support. You can be sure it can’t be sold. It’s the golden middle: not self hosted, but not owned by anyone.
Took me like 5 minutes to move back to KeepassXC.
i want to switch back to KeepassXC, but I very heavily use aliases in Proton Pass and can’t figure out a good way to still create those on the fly AND use Keepass as my default pass provider
Keepassdx supports creating aliases via addy.io I think
I just got Bit warden this year! Gah. Where are we jumping?
Full circle to sticky notes on monitor.
Vaultwarden
Maybe pay for one then?
I pay for bitwarden for the yubi key support and I’m also tired of switching.
Goddammit. Why can’t we have nice things?
i was just thinking this week with the passphrase addition how good bitwarden is and when will the other shoe drop. There it is.
Ah shit. Here we go again!
Can anyone say “Enshittification”!
Enshitification coming right up!
I’m going to have to just write my own one of these fucking things aren’t I?
KeePassXC and Vaultwarden exist
And Strongbox for iOS. They communicate with KeepassXC to keep the vaults compatible with both software.
I think the original title was more helpful because it shows that this is a recent development. Maybe you can add “new CEO”?
Bitwarden scrubs ‘Always free’ and ‘Inclusion’ values from its website as longtime execs step down
In February, longtime CEO Michael Crandell moved to an advisory role, according to LinkedIn, with no announcement from the company. His replacement, Michael Sullivan, former CEO of both Acquia and Insightsoftware, touts his experience with “all facets of mergers and acquisitions” on his own LinkedIn page, including experience working with leading private equity firms.
CFO Stephen Morrison also left Bitwarden in April, replaced by former InVision CEO Michael Shenkman. Both Crandell and Morrison joined the company in 2019. Kyle Spearrin, who started Bitwarden as a fun hobby project in 2015, remains the company’s CTO.
You’re right, changed
Keep ass what though? /s
why this over keepassxc?
Personally, I use a plugin for passphrases and - last time I looked - the other forks didn’t handle them.
Does keepassxc support plugins now?
On my phone, I use KeePassDX from F-Droid and KeePassDroid (Not sure if that’s being maintained at the moment?)
The main point is; we need to support open source developers, so pick an open-source solution and contribute, donate, etc.
KeePassXC has passphrase generation built in
Every company is basically evil at this point.
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism.
I think the rope they’re selling us might, one day soon, have a net positive impact.
Since Dodge v. Ford Motor Co (1919), if not earlier.
See also: https://reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate-accountability-history-corporations-us/
Well, poop.
Has Vaultwarden said anything yet? I imagine that, if necessary, given that bitwarden’s client is still open, at the point they choose to try and close it, we, the users, can fork it and establish it for vaultwarden, correct? Or, maybe even the vaultwarden team will think about forking it themselves and making a light client as well to pair with the current server.
But Vaultwarden can exist without “leeching” they just haven’t needed to yet. That’s more symbiotic than parasitic. The parasite class just took over Bitwarden after all.
Not to my knowledge. As far as forks go, that’s true. However, Vaultwarden would need to become an independent team, and even if they don’t take over maintaining the client, someone else would need to become independent. While it can work, it can also lead to very nasty, longstanding bugs or security issues due to scale, budget, and effort. I see this a lot with Apple apps for example - smaller developers understandably don’t want to deal with Apple’s crap and costs, and everyone suffers in the end.
If you look at the current state of the cybersecurity world, it’s not kind to open-source developers. AI-generated BS is dredging up vulnerabilities on all sides. So security is also a big concern. Someone like Bitwarden has a lot of budget to swing.
Vaultwarden itself is incredibly good, but not perfect:
~~https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2026-26012.~~
Edit: Bad example, point is security is a concern with a smaller team.
You’re right. And that’s why more of us need to contribute and spread the word of projects to support them.
Honestly, FOSS is our last bastion against this consumerist hellscape. I’m working on learning to build my own discord-like front end on matrix specifically for gaming. But I’m just one guy. We’ve all gotta pick where we place our effort and support those around us similarly.
Vaultwarden taking over bitwarden, should they shut doen as open source, I think would be entirely worthy. But it might need more people to either help vaultwarden or maintain it on their own, you’re right.
To me, seeing and learning about all of these projects gives me hope. All of these people and communities working to build things out of passion and dedication, because they care and want to provide value to others. No profit motive necessary. We just need to be there to support them as we’ve tied capital to our survival currently.
True dat. The more people know every corporation, even the most “wholesome chungus Reddit karma 100” ones ONLY care about squeezing profits out of you, the better off we’re going to be in the future.
Check out and contribute to gomuks. It’s the go-to power user Matrix client as I’ve learned. I recently developed a theme for it to make it look more like Cinny, which itself is a bit of a Discord UI Clone. I don’t actually use gomuks, but it really needed a nice theme.
Anyone that doesn’t understand that companies exist to make profit needs to be studied at this point. You have to wonder how they even function in the world.
People don’t go work 9-5 for the fun of it and for free, do they? No, a company and/or customers pay them. Without that payment step there’s no job and there’s no product/service.
If you don’t think the company deserves your money, find another free service and use that until they start charging. Rinse and repeat - or just be an adult and pay for services and work that you like and use.
Are you genuinely unable to comprehend the concept of a company not doing evil things to make profit? You do realise I paid for it up until this point right? Thanks captain obvious for telling me I can stop paying for things.
I was fine with a price hike, I realise that paid users are subsidizing free ones and everything is getting more expensive. What I’m not fine with is the deception, shitty marketing, removal of “DEI-like” language, and a sudden clear lack of morality in the company. They lost my trust, anyone with a brain shouldn’t trust them either with their most precious online secrets.
And you call yourself a freedom advocate, then advocate for textbook enshittification which always leads to the removal of freedom lol, what a shill
You think that people are going to lose “freedom” with Bitwarden making changes? Are you serious?
They’re not doing anything “evil” lol. Inclusivity should not be a main focus of a password storage company lol. That makes no sense.
You shouldn’t have had “trust” in a company to begin with. That’s on you.
What is your matrix front end called?
It doesn’t exist yet 😅 as I said, still learning and trying to avoid using AI as a lot of vibe coded discord clones popped up. I did compile a list (which probably needs updating)
https://github.com/DukePantarei/discord-alternatives-wishlist
This is why corporate promises can never be trusted, because a new CEO can change those promises on a whim.
It’s part of why despite being interested in Beeper, I never signed up for it because I had questions about if those privacy promises they made would be kept if they sold to a bigger company… which they eventually did.
On the plus side Bitwarden already made an official open source self-hosted version, which can be forked and/or return to the community developed Vaultwarden roots.
Meanwhile KeepassXC keeps on chugging along.
FYI beeper is really just matrix with bridges. Once I realized that I set up my own and now I have the same functionalities as beeper, self hosted, with a choice of clients.
With one difference. After merging with text.com they switched to a model with on-device bridges so that the decryption on their servers is no longer needed. Ofc it’s similar if the matrix instance and the bridges run on the own server.
Oh I was well aware at the time, but I had a lot of friends who still struggled with trying to use Matrix/Element so at the time I was seeking a simpler solution for them.
How fucking stupid do you need to be to struggle with element do they struggle to use cups are they trying to do weird advanced features on an architecture I’ve never heard of with a compiler built themselves wtf
element was very buggy a few years ago. the new clients are just now starting to get feature parity, and in my experience calls are still quite unstable, requiring your server to have some specific additional setup (which most public registration instances don’t have), besides that not a lot of clients have implemented yet MatrixRTC calls. even the client list on matrix.org is only showing whether a client supports the former calling system.
so for the layman it’s definitely not production ready yet. and even for new tech literate users some of the things are still challenging to figure out.
Nothing has fully working phone calls anymore my phone doesn’t
Wow, usually people lose their shit and complain that Element is too complex and that me and the devs are being assholes asking them to use it… You know kind of like all the people here on the Fediverse who think we need to make it bigger and bring in everyone from everywhere and that the devs and users who defend them are awful for not focusing on user interface first and making it less confusing to choose a server…
Anyway, thanks for being on team reasonable, because I’m with you on this 100%, but I can’t change how little people want to learn anything sadly so I make compromises with people who cant or wont learn how to do things. It sucks, people really don’t seem to understand that security and convenience are a balance, and every time people argue for shit to be easier they’re actually arguing for everything to be less secure. You sacrifice security for convenience, every time, and the opposite happens because you can sacrifice convenience for increased security measures. Security has to be complex by nature to be effective, and the core of Matrix is being a secure, encrypted protocol, which they have already actually put a ton of work into making easier for fucking normies. Yet, it’s never enough for people. Always screams of “It’s too complex! I hate thinking!”
The buttons are in a different place oh god so much blood yes I resized the window what’s your point
lmao God I can feel the frustration rising in me just thinking about it. I know these are digital rather than physical objects… but do these people fail to have object permanence?
I feel like there’s a very real rejection of consciousness and self reflection I feel that as a strange person who doesn’t always accommodate defaults too its really depressing in a very real sense they’re rejecting personhood based on protest and and silicon valley propaganda of normalcy and frictionlessness
Not everyone is a tech nerd some of us just want our stuff to work stop asking us to be nerds too this is why everyone hates you fix it fix it fix it
They responded on reddit and walked some of it back as an “oversight”: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitwarden/comments/1tdvnh7/comment/olznwcv/. Allegedly, I’m too lazy to verify.
A change that would require intent to make is not a mistake or oversight.
This sucks. I committed to Bitwarden years ago and now am going to have to switch before they lock me in the garden.
They also haven’t addressed the removal of inclusion and transparency from their goals.
EDIT: They did. They said it’s “less of a priority”. The article I shared has been updated. I smell corporate bullshit though. “Oversight” this, “priority shift” that, they’d have to work hard to gain any trust back.
Move to KeePassXC or its recent LLM-free fork while you still can, because at some point Bitwarden is going to try to go closed-source again.
Oh crap, how’s KeePass got an LLM involved‽ Time to look into this now…
I did find https://codeberg.org/ChiPass/ChiPass , but it looks like a very new project.
…actually seems quite reasonable.
very much so.
