I have a graduate degree in statistics and use it heavily in my job. I always tell people that mathematicians study math, but statisticians just use math the study data.
In that case probability theorists are the chiropractors of math
To badly paraphrase Mark Twain…“There are lies, damned lies, statistics, and polls!”.
Even the original quote isn’t from Twain. He misattributed it to British PM Disraeli, but the saying originated after Disraeli’s death.
A bit ironic given the quote.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics
Cool info. Thanks!
Terrance Tao is an absolute beast. If you debate him on this you’ll get a rigorous proof back on how you’re wrong.
Irl they become actuaries. It’s usually applied mathematics and if by mathematician one means someone exploring mathematics alone then this is accurate. CompSci kinda falls half into this and half outside of it.
It reminds me of the statement by Clifford Stoll, (paraphrased) the first time you do something it’s science, the second time you’re an engineer, the third time you’re a technician. link.
In essence most statistician work ranges in the engineer to technician level of mathematics.
I was a music history major, and we had to take 2 math courses, and one had to be Acoustics, which we were all afraid of, and waited until we were seniors to take it, and then it turned out to be pretty easy. I ended up working for a classical record label, and used my acoustics knowledge pretty often during recording sessions. I became the guy they talked to about acoustic treatments in the recording halls and such. We even switched recording halls, when I figured out that the hall sounded better when there were pillows in the seats to simulate people. I got an A in that class.
The other math class I took was Statistics. I was terrible in Math during high school, and barely survived Algebra 2. I was not looking forward to more of that, and statistics sounded like it had a real-world use that I could understand, and I was right. I could understand the math because it had a reason that I could see, unlike the abstract nature of most math. I got a B in Statistics, which I was really proud of.
I still use my statistics knowledge to this day, whenever one party or another starts crowing about a new poll, and I see that it had a tiny sample size, and a margin of error of 5%+, and it is essentially useless poll.
Hot damn, that’s a take!
I really don’t want to take anything away from dentists, cause I got an emergency removal that quite possibly saved my life.
I like to think of them as accountants. They sure use numbers, but I’m not sure what they’re doing with them is in a’y way shape or form morally acceptable.
Of course its true. What even is math? Do you know someone who actually does math as a career? Really? Math?
I guess its complicated and I’d say you lose the status of mathematician somewhere between proving the Riemann hypothesis and adding 3 to 3.Most STEM scientists i know end up doing statistics instead because it’s easier to have a paycheque
I don’t think I will ever figure out the order to read these things.
Just… Why? Wouldn’t you want it to be formatted in a way that’s immediately obvious what order to read them?
I used bluesky lately (which i guess uses the same format?) and it looks like so because we are viewing a reply(3) to a post (2) that cite another post (1)
Thanks. I hate it.
Genuine question: what’s confusing about this post?
There are some that are confusingly structured, but this one should be quite obvious
Obvious would be top to bottom. You know, like how every human reads.
For replies, yes. And that is the case. But the first one is a quote, not a reply
And it makes sense to put the reply before the thing they’re replying to.
You have to read the posts and then put them in order yourself. I see these a lot and I’m still only ever like 90% sure I’m ordering them right.
The other commenter is right, its a stupid way to list a chain of events considering its out of order and doesn’t even start with “1”.
If statisticians are mathematicians then so are physicists and engineers.
Using math is different from being a mathematician. Mathematicians discover new mathematical principles, not just make use of existing ones.
Are you a programmer if you program programming languages, or a program programming programmer?
This is the difference between Computer Science (a field of mathematics) and Software Engineering (a field of engineering).
And as everyone knows theorems in statistics are brought to this world by storks.
Yeah I don’t think this is the burn on statisticians OP makes it out to be. Lots of technical disciplines use mathematics, like… all of them I think? I don’t know of any field that doesn’t incorporate math that isn’t purely artistic.
Also why are dentists catching strays?
Statisticians are typically lumped in with mathematicians because Statistics is typically treated like a mathematics course. This isn’t really the case with other technical disciplines.
Dentists are catching strays because they’re likewise kinda considered “doctors” in a medical sense. They’re specialists in their own field that get lumped in with the more general field by a quirk of categorization.
I don’t know how it is elsewhere, but in the US they aren’t “kinda considered” doctors, they are doctors. They have terminal medical degrees and practitioner’s licenses same as any other medical practitioner. They’re kinda segmented off from the rest of medical practice because of how dentistry evolved alongside other historical healing practices, but they are doctors.
Second, is statistics not a branch of mathematics? The courses I took on probability and statistics were taught by the math department. I don’t see how it can’t be. Is it “pure” math? Depends on how you define pure but probably not. Is it “easy” math? Arguably some of it is, though I think people who think stats is an easy science probably aren’t very good at it. All that I get. But the idea that it is (uniquely among technical disciplines) “not math” is… confounding to me.
Statistics results change based on the lens through which you interpret the data. Pure math doesn’t do that. Assigning probabilities is arguably pure math, but assigning error bars is purely subjective. It’s more a reflection of the subjective selection and definition processes than of the underlying probabilities.
assigning error bars is purely subjective
I don’t know where you got this idea from but it is incorrect. Error bars are used to indicate uncertainty in measurements and they are used to indicate confidence (or lack thereof) in those measurements. Measurement is hard, and precise measurement is harder, so engineers of all stripes use error bars to indicate how precisely their data have been recorded. It’s not just a stats thing.
also this:
results change based on the lens through which you interpret the data
happens in every field, including pure mathematics. Look up the axiom of choice if you would like a lot of further reading about the implications of interpreting mathematics through that particular lens. Much as we may long for a “purely objective” language of the universe, free from the limitations of human interpretation, we haven’t discovered it yet. The best we can do for now is try to make good assumptions and build from there.
And they make more money because their liability insurance is a hell of a lot cheaper
What’s funny is statisticians are generally the ones determining insurance payouts.
kind of, but you’re looking at the wrong end. we’re talking like 1600 a month for a policy instead of 12000 (some reasonable numbers from 15 years ago i’m pulling out my ass). 20k a year instead of 150k, just for your practice’s liability and malpractice insurance, all because you have the patience to stick your hands in people’s mouths (which most medical practitioners don’t).
also i don’t know if dental drills have changed, but wear ear pro when you use one if you’re a dentist, DA or hygienist. the brief time a patient hears it won’t damage their hearing (much if at all), but all day every day? My dentist friend is profoundly deaf in the ear that faces toward patients thanks to his drill. that’s a risk to one’s self most medical practitioners aren’t willing to assume.
i tell anyone who wants to go into medicine, doesn’t know the field they want, and wants to make a lot of money to shadow a dentist for a week. tell them you want to go into dentistry and they’ll get excited (they might be able to sell their practice to you and retire once you’re out of dental school). at least that was my experience. I don’t like putting my hands in other people’s mouths.
“Statisticians are the dentists of mathematics” like, they do a very specialised job that a generalist would struggle to perform correctly without their level of specialised training, where performing their duties inadequately or forgoiing their services can completely disrupt the function of various area of life/business?
And by extension, so is a cashier.
Statisticians are somewhere between Sociologists and Psychologists according Mathematicians and between Chemists and physicists according to Statisticians.
Prof Brian Cox once joked that Biology is basically a branch of the Arts
philosophers way to the right of mathematicians saying “oh! I didn’t notice you there”
i’m an economist (basically advanced statistics with weird assumptions).
I’d rank them macro econ > sociology > psych > micro econ > stats > bio > chem > phys > > > math > > > > > > > > > > philosophy
“statistics” can mean two things: it’s a field of mathematics, and it’s also the application of that field to the real world.
There are many theorems in statistics: the central limit theorem, the proof of the t-test, for example. This is maths.
But if what you’re doing is assuming a certain real distribution is normal, or testing for normality of real data, that’s not maths any more.
Just like calculus is real maths, but once you’re solving real integrals for real scenarios, you’re doing science.
