- cross-posted to:
- android@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- android@lemmy.world
While they were happy with what the fairphone 4 brought to the table, they seem to like what was changed for the fairphone 5.
What are you guys’ opinions on this? A welcome change? would you get one if your phone died within the next year?
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I really wish another viable mobile OS would come out. I don’t want android and apple iOS is wearing thin on me.
Why not Android?
degoogling intensifies
Graphene OS might interest you.
I’m not going to criticize the project, because it’s good. But, to me, using anything that gives Google an edge in controlling the direction of technology is bad. So, no Chromium products and no Android.
I despise Google, and I agree with chromium, but when the only other alternative is using the proprietary walled garden that is iOS, I’ll take degoogled Android everyday.
What can android do that you actually do that iOS cannot?
For starters, you can degoogle Android, you can’t deapple iOS.
You can replace the manufacturer android with a clean, free software and secure Android ROM, like GrapheneOS. iOS is a black box, fully proprietary and controlled by Apple.
You can install apps from third parties on Android, like F-Droid. On iOS every app must be approved by Apple.
You can’t use an iPhone without an Apple account, you can use Android without a Google account.
Android has multiple profiles support, which comes handy for completely isolating apps from the rest of your phone.
There’s much, much more. That’s just what came to my mind right now.
Personally, I like using the terminal on my phone, and the only terminal I found for iOS is extremely slow because its emulating linux.
For a regular user… basically nothing.
I quit google products and services a decade ago, so I was “relegated” to iOS, which… does basically the same exact fucking thing but better in every way. It’s spendy though. I also like their privacy stance, which is “we cost a lot but we’re not selling all of your data to advertisers”
I have not found a single thing I can’t do on iOS that I COULD on Android.
People spout WaLLeD GaRdEn and what I read is “privacy” and I’m in
Too bad they don’t sell them in the US. I would buy one immediately.
they’re selling the 4 with degoogled OS in the US, so perhaps they’ll do the same with the 5 at some point.
Amazing.
I’m sick of buying a new phone every three years because the battery is dead or the processor is slow, nothing can be replaced without it being wildly expensive and now it’s a paperweight.
To be fair, I don’t think the Fairphone will help much with outdated processors. You can’t upgrade the processor inside, and it comes with a relatively slow processor from day one.
This phone is not for people that need performance; it’s a very basic phone for people that value an ethical supply chain and repairability.
Relative slow my arse imo.Its all about use cases and the (potential shitty) apps you run. Been using the fp4 just perfectly fine for months, and before that the one plus x on android 11 just fine.
I would like to know what apps you use that would need the speed of anything besides the “best”?
( and for anyone wondering, one of the reasons you cant switch processor is because of the imei thats burned in. Changing that basically means that the whole id of the phone changes, including links to your mobile provider. It isnt allowed in some places )
Games
If that’s the sum total of your reasons for needing a more expensive, less free, less repairable phone, then I have nothing left except to laugh at you.
No, I just don’t have the time to explain the hundred obvious ways that a fast processor might benefit somebody, so I chose a single, INCREDIBLY obvious item near the top of the list for most people, and was hoping that I wouldn’t get follow-up idiotic responses like this. But alas!
OK specs overall but too big for me and no headphone jack, I wouldn’t get one.
I’m fairly(pun intended) certain my next phone will be a Fairphone. What would be the main reasons not to buy it? I don’t mind the size, I don’t need an amazing camera but I do wish it had a headphone jack. That said, I expect to flash Lineage on my OnePlus 6 and use it a bit longer, to avoid e-waste for a bit.
If my FP4 dies in the next year, I will fix it. Because iFixit gave it 10/10.
And I give it a 0/10 on having a 3.5mm connector
Is that really that much of an issue in the age of USB-C?
Yes, the 3.5mm jack is more durable than USB-C (since it is rotationally symmetric twisting doesn’t apply force to the connector), it maintains compatibility with billions of audio devices and doesn’t block your charging port if you use it.
They could just make magnetic connectors with a shallow socket. But those would last longer and you wouldn’t need to keep buying new stuff.
CC: @Petter1@lemm.ee
3.5 jack port is definitely not more durable than USB-C. If you have good headphones, the change that the 3.5 plug is gigantic in length and the cable thicc AF which causes a lot of stress in the plug due to very large leverage. Additionally, I prefer to use the DAC integrated in my headphones rather than using the low quality tiny DAC in my phone. And in digital, the cable thickness does not matter really.
Very few people are plugging their large headphones into their phones though. For a more reasonable pair of portable headphones or IEMs the size of the plug isn’t a problem.
But congratulations, you have hit on my biggest audio pet peeve! DACs matter very little these days. Anything talking about DACs and not the DAC/Amp stages is marketing BS. Even dirt cheap DAC chips will acoustically transparently convert the digital signal to analog in audio frequencies because it is so basic to do. DACs on their own are useless for audio anyway, what really matters in your audio signal is the amp circuitry after the DAC that applies gain to the signal to useful levels as the choices there do make an acoustic difference if the design is poor.
What makes you think the DAC/Amp in your headphones is going to be better than the one that is built into the SoC of your phone? I don’t think I’ve ever seen any measurements of headphone DAC/Amps.
I learned that from my father, who mostly listen to music from his phone using external headphone amp for his bayer dynamics studio headphones, or uses digital out (via Bluetooth) and let his other Bayern dynamics active headphones do the DAC. He is sure that he hears the difference, but of course that could all be in his head alone. I myself am not a hiFi enthusiast, I only find the tech behind it very interesting. (I listen to music using airPods and in my car using CarPlay, sorry iPhone user here, but thinking to migrate as soon as my iPhone X becomes unusable) But given my interest in tech, I appreciate the explanation, that cheap DAC chips are very good as well, these days.
I’m sorry what? The 3.5mm is better because it’s rotational symmetrical?
Thats a minor win. You rarely really need that rotation capability, and what little you need can be made up with thinner cables (which is easier with a digital signal and DACs in the headphone, which can’t be done compatibly with 3.5mm and people are dumb) The you also have to sacrifice connection friction to gain rotation, and that has tradeoffs, especially when that friction is caused by a spring-loaded conductor (which also means more friction likely means fewer insertion cycles before friction starts dropping off).
It also really sucks at strain relief without massive dookie springs or rubber butts…and the bigger the strain relief, the more subjective it is to perpendicular force, which is really easy to do on a 3.5mm diameter cylinder of gold-plated iron/tin alloy with the fulcrum also being at the base of the cylinder.
Other cool thing about what could be done with USB-C headphones. A lot of companies put lead weights full-sized headphones for balance or comfort (more weight makes it feel more secure). Good Modern drivers don’t need to be as heavy as they used to be. How bout instead of weights, they use lipos? Now your headphones can charge your phone (when in wired mode, hell, I’m talking about fictional mid/high-end cans, they could have Bluetooth and ANC while we’re at it since they have power), and your charger port point is essentially moot.
Begs the question why aren’t charging jacks designed like audio jacks?
No way i’m carrying a dongle
New headphones come with lightning and USB C cable these days
I ain’t buying new ones either
See it positive: you don’t have to choose from many phones if you that much want a headphone jack 😄
I don’t get why you get so much downvotes, because it’s not as obvious as people make it out to be and there are plenty of adapters. So it’s a good question.
But yes. The 3.5mm jack had the thing companies say they are striving for: simplicity.
DACs are nice and everything but the phone can just decide to not connect properly. The DAC can decide it had enough of your phone. In either case you’d need to reconnect them. And that means unlocking your phone, because a secure phone will block streaming to ‘unknown’ USB-C devices, unless it’s unlocked during the negotiation phase. And if your connectors have become wonky for whatever reason: Well, no music for you.
And then there’s the issue where you have to have them at hand when you need them. In your car, on your person, while at work.
3.5mm is great because it actually “just works”. One of the few things that can claim such thing.
Yes, I should be able to play music, AND charge the phone without a 9 wire adapter like those universal charger plugs from 10 years ago. Wild concept. I wonder when phone tech will be able to support such a thing
This and most phones literally let you do what you’re saying right now.
Yes, it is.
OK
my issue right now is that i use one of those charging + 3.5mm splitters in the car, but when they’re both connected there’s a loud ass buzz. a 3.5mm ground loop isolator works but made bass sound terrible. i’m probably gonna get an old phone just for music in the car 🤦🏽♂️
Just get a new car pleb.
Honestly Bluetooth in a car has been a must for me for like 10 years now. And having experienced CarPlay, that’s def next (especially for cars that support wireless and have a Qi spot. Thats practically magic)
i like my car :( and i’m paranoid about features in new cars. i can hear a noticeable difference in quality with bluetooth vs wired too. never been a fan
regardless, cars that people primarily use 3.5mm for aren’t going away too soon!
You should do what I did and just fuck up your ears with loud car stereos in your teenage years. Now I can’t tell a damn bit of difference.
honestly, not a bad idea. i’ve already got the tinnitus but i need to step it up
CarPlay transmits audio over wifi
I upgraded my car without Bluetooth using a carPlay ready touchscreen auto radio to replace the old thing that was mounted in the DIN drawer thingy
In car, I can recommend using android in the car using the touchscreen of the car. There you can manage audio as well as charging the phone. One cable to rule them all.
If they gave us a second usb-c port instead I wouldn’t complain so much. So dumb that I have to choose between charging and audio
A second or dual charger and you can do both anyway with wireless headsets.
As well as a 5.25" floppy disc drive and betamax, you call that a phone?!? No thank you, I’ll stick with my x-phone https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9-nezImUP0w
People complaining about 3.5mm jacks remind of the people who complained about how the iMac G3 didn’t have a 3.5" floppy drive. At first yeah it was weird to leave it out, but it’s been 9 years since the first smartphone launched without a 3.5mm jack (the OPPO R5 in 2014).
If you want ancient tech then your options will be limited.
you do know that you could have made your point in a nicer manner, yes? why would we want to bring the strenuous tones of hollow outrage from reddit to here?
we are all better than that, even the big danish guys.
I’m sorry, but I had to say something. I’m so tired of non-technical people moaning about the out phasing of the 3.5mm jack, and especially the arguments about audio quality and vendor lock in that has been raised in this thread. I had to make sure that it was understood, that the view is not unopposed.
Could I have done it more diplomatically? Maybe, but I also wanted to drive my point home in as short a post as possible.
I asked chatgpt to help out rewriting my comment, but with your criticism in mind. It came up with:
While 3.5mm jacks may seem like a staple, it’s worth noting that technology evolves. Much like the transition from 3.5" floppy drives, change takes time to be widely accepted. The omission of the jack in smartphones isn’t about dismissing tradition but adapting to newer, more versatile alternatives. It’s been nearly a decade since the OPPO R5, and as technology progresses, embracing these changes can lead to a broader range of innovative features.
I don’t want to bore people to death, but I can also see now how perhaps I could have attacked the technology instead of the people.
We are better than our old /u/ on reddit, and we must strive to keep it that way. Competing with reddit on toxicity, will be a fight we’ll never be able to win.
Thank you for calling me out on my BS, and helping us all to keep the fediverse a better place.
Being an electronic engineer and a programmer I would categorize myself as a “technical person”. I am also a person that prefers devices that are as reliable an repairable as possible. A headphone without a battery and with a replaceable cable can last you literally decades. A TWS one, will not.
To add to that, using a dongle means a separate device that can break (and is most likely not repairable), that isn’t necessarily compatible with anything you plug it in to, that has a dac (which is redundant since your phone could use the internal one if you had a 3.5mm connector) and that will cause extra battery drain (regardless of how much more, it’s more than 0).
There are literally 0 benefits to removing the headphone jack. Several people have even shown that devices that “don’t have enough space” for it can be modded to add the 3.5mm jack and you don’t even lose any functionality.
Removing the headphone jack is a step backwards.
My own background is in embedded electronics too. Whether there is a benefit in removing the jack or not has not been part of my arguments.
Some people will say that the jack needs to go for waterproofing, but I distinctly remember owning a Sony Xperia M4 which had both a jack and an IP68 rating.
I’m also not saying that your arguments aren’t valid, I just value different aspects… Except for the part about an external DAC being redundant. An external DAC, with RCA or XLR connectors, some proper cable can potentially give you a better result than the internal DAC and the 3.5mm jack. Emphasis on the “potential” part.
I haven’t used wired headphones on a regular basis, since that Xperia in 2015ish, and I don’t miss untangling the wires, or fixing a broken socket where the solder is cracked, the pins are broken inside the plastic housing of the socket, or clearing a socket of a broken male jack.
IMO the 3.5mm jack is a poor connector. It breaks too easily, dust in the socket leads to static and to be quite honest if I can tell a difference in sound quality, it’s my BT headphones that comes out on top.
As long as there’s a demand for 3.5mm jacks in phones they’ll still be marketed. But if people could stop pointing out that another overpriced smartphone lacks the jack, it would just be swell. Just buy a more modestly priced phone instead of forking over +700€ for a frigging phone.
I currently have a Sony Xperia 5V. It has an IP68 rating, it’s basically a flagship phone and it has a headphone jack. Manufacturers don’t include the jack because they don’t want to but it’s 100% possible.
An external DAC, with RCA or XLR connectors, some proper cable can potentially give you a better result than the internal DAC and the 3.5mm jack.
Sorry, but that bit about the external dac is pretty dumb. We’re talking about using a mobile phone and you’re talking xlr and rca? Really?
I don’t miss untangling the wires,
Maybe use a case? I usually have a small roud case for my IEMs that barely takes up space. You’re already carrying a case for tws so I don’t see why it would be a problem.
or fixing a broken socket where the solder is cracked,
At least you can fix it. If the battery on a wireless IEM dies, 9 times out of 10 you can’t fix it and need to get a new one.
the pins are broken inside the plastic housing of the socket,
Maybe don’t use shitty jacks?
or clearing a socket of a broken male jack.
Don’t know how or where you use your phone but that literally never happened to me. Honestly, none of the issues you mentioned have been a problem for me. Maybe take better care of your stuff?
And regarding people pointing out the lack of a basic feature. Yeah, no. If a company makes shitty products, I’ll keep pointing it out. Also, there are fewer and fewer phones with a headphone jack every year. Cheap and expensive. So no, price has nothing to dp with this.
Sorry, but that bit about the external dac is pretty dumb. We’re talking about using a mobile phone and you’re talking xlr and rca? Really?
mama always stupid is as stupid does
I’ve read at least once in this thread an argument, that 3.5mm jack is superior to BT or USB-C, on account of the audio quality. If you’re using your phone for playback in a setup where you can tell the difference, then an external DAC, with proper connectors, is warranted.
Maybe use a case? I usually have a small roud case for my IEMs that barely takes up space.
How about wireless instead? They can be more discreet, and you don’t always have to care about stowing then away. There’s a bit of a difference between rolling the wire(s) up or just plopping the individual TWS in a case, where orientation is handled by a magnet.
Maybe don’t use shitty jacks?
Nothing to do with the jack. I’m talking about the pins coming from the circular part of the socket and going to the PCB. I’ve seen them break inside the socket housing, where you can’t get to them. Leaving you with the options of either
- sourcing a drop in replacement socket, which is time consuming and some of the time futile, or
- plugging in some headphones, fire up the device and start playing some sound, then manipulate the socket while listening to the audio and when you get both left and right working, then securing the position with ad much epoxy as you can get away with. Elsewhere in this thread I’ve mentioned cowboy ways of electronics repair, this is some of what I meant.
If you want to avoid this issue, then you need to evaluate the socket in the device as part of your purchasing considerations. But most stores don’t like it when you take their stuff apart. Instruct your users (in my case friends and family) to be really careful OR just use wireless.
Don’t know how or where you use your phone but that literally never happened to me. Honestly, none of the issues you mentioned have been a problem for me. Maybe take better care of your stuff?
Or, and bear with me here, I’ll keep using my devices how I want, as I’ve found a perfectly good strategy for not breaking a 3.5mm male jack in the socket? Most of the times I have had to deal with this issue in this millennium, I haven’t even been the culprit.
Yeah, no. If a company makes shitty products, I’ll keep pointing it out.
And I’ll keep telling you that nobody really cares, most of your arguments are moot, and your opinion is not that of the vast majority.
Also, there are fewer and fewer phones with a headphone jack every year.
I wonder how that could be /s
Cheap and expensive. So no, price has nothing to dp with this.
It started with flagships IIRC, sure it may have trickled down into other segments.
AND it’s on purpose. It’s to make you switch from your good headphones that work with any analog output to shit that requires their specifications and can be remotely fucked with so you gotta keep buying.
AND it’s on purpose. It’s to make you switch from your good headphones that work with any analog output to shit that requires their specifications and can be remotely fucked with so you gotta keep buying.
[Citation needed]
When you punch me in the nose, I don’t need proof of your intentions.
I want a fucking headphone jack, thanks. Also 3 full size USB ports, a physical keyboard and a inch-thick battery, because fuck you.
Too bad about the software security updates and lack of security features. Might be a good spare phone though
What do you mean by lack of security features? Fairphone promises 5 Android version upgrades and security updates for at least 8 years.
Running android puts rather a low ceiling on security and privacy
Edit: ok look y’all, I’m stoked that there are some privacy and security-focused routes for nerds to take, but aggregate security for the average user who goes to a store and buys what the salesperson recommends is an important metric.
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Iirc the chipset, QCM6490, will lose support after 2028 meaning the device will get at least 5 years of security updates and not the promised 8. Pretty sure that’s why grapheneOS doesn’t/won’t support it since the company doesn’t keep to their promises
Edit: found grapheneOS’ response again I’m not saying Fairphone is a bad company but the way they are advertising the fp5 seems kinda shady IMO based on the specs of the device. At most you’ll get partial updates after 5 years since Qualcomm will drop support which is still great but don’t assume your device will be as safe as a fully updated device. Then again fairphone may commit to extending the life of the QCM6490 but not sure if they’ll be capable of that so we’ll just have to see. I apologize to anyone who got offended for some reason I was just expressing my opinion based on the track record of the company and the specs of their device
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I would love one of it wasn’t so big. I’m sick of big phones.
This. I just ordered an S23, just because it’s pretty much the smallest phone you can get (apart from the zenfone, which has a worse update policy).
I’m still using a S10e, seriously considering buying another - it still suits my needs.
I went with pixel 8 Pro and graphene os, but I did consider fp.
Can you even use a new fp in the US?
You can technically. But you might not get service in certain areas because it doesn’t have support for all of the US bands.
I came really close to importing one until I found I couldn’t use 5g, and there’d be very little LTE support for T-Mobile.
Ended up getting a Pixel 8, hopefully they can get it to the US sooner than they did the FP4.
Ive been considering GrapheneOS. I only really use Banking, Android Auto and occasionally Maps from the play store (although I LOVE Organic Maps).
Graphene doesn’t and won’t ever support android auto, sadly, it’s the only thing I miss
Edit: well, that’s what they said, but now it’s optionally available!
The FP5 still have some strange overheating issue. Some day I go from 90% et 10% in 2 hours, sometime it takes 2 day, without any changes in my usages. A reboot fixes it for a time, but I have to do it every 2-3 days…
I will be buying one. Sorry, the 3.5mm jack days have passed. The perceptible quality difference from current gen BT headphones is negligible for 99% of people. If you are in the 1%, listen on your dedicated hardware at home, but dont bog down item specs for the rest of people.
Yes but also no, but also yes. Here’s why:
- yes: most people don’t use cabled headphones
- no: high quality headphones require a jack
- yes: those high quality headphones need amplifiers beyond what the phones inbuilt dac can handle
So I’d probably overall argue that those who really care about audio probably have a separate DAC like https://www.techradar.com/audio/hi-fi/ifi-hip-dac-3-review
Which is probably an unpopular opinion.
I disagree on point 1; I use cabled headphones/earbuds more than the screen. My audio jacks get more use than the all the usb jacks combined (short of peripherals like keyboard that stay plugged in constantly).
I wouldn’t say the Fairphone 5 wins prizes for looks or functionality but it does show that it is entirely possible to make a phone with a replaceable battery and repairable components in a modern form factor. If they, a small boutique phone maker can do it, then there is absolutely no excuse that Apple, Samsung, Oppo etc. cannot do the same.
One failing of Fairphone is you cannot buy the mainboard (the core component) from their store. All the other components yes, but not the mainboard. The core is not just the CPU, flash but also some other things like microphone are on it. It would also be nice if people could order all the parts that make up a Fairphone 5 and assemble one entirely from scratch.
I’ve also read through their ethics / green reports in the past, and while it talks it up with “supply chain engagement” reports and so on, most of their components are still made to order by Chinese OEMs so how far does it go down the chain in reality.
Few comments here that id like feedback from somebody, if possible :
- fairphone does not sell mainboards seperately because things like the phone imei is linked to it, which in itself is often linked to the mobile provider. Changing this isnt always allowed, depending on the country/state/whatever
- afaik they do still order from china oems, but i think they choose parts that are certified to not be made with childlabor, unethical stuff etc etc. If it is like that, nobody knows. Thats the problem with the whole fight against unethical stuff
then there is absolutely no excuse that Apple, Samsung, Oppo etc. cannot do the same.
There is an excuse: it costs them money. If you can easily and cheaply repair your phone, you won’t buy a new one.
Technical excuse I meant.
Oh I know. But there is no technical excuse and they know it.
greed isn’t an excuse. Oh, sorry I was late but I have a good excuse: I’m lazy
“Sorry I’m late, it’s because of who I am as a person” is my usual reason.
Yes my apologies. I gave a really good excuse though gestures to self in the general
I like repairable hardware and own a Framework laptop. It has a headphone socket that I use every day. If Framework made a phone I might be interested. If most fairphones end up paired to disposable wireless earbuds with limited battery life that end in landfill I don’t get how that is more sustainable than adding a socket for the declining but still sizeable number of people who cling to wired stuff that just works.
My rugged mid-range Nokia refuses to take damage. The thing is cursed. I have dropped it so many times it is ridiculous. It might be years before I replace it. Has a jack as well. Made me totally re-evaluate what I value in a phone. I realized I am not a feature/performance fetishist. I want solidly made gear that has regular updates.
The number of comment that says " I would buy one, but" is amazing !
What this company is doing is what every company should do, from laptop to tablet. As well as tractors. Dot being able to repair what you buy is fundamentally flawed!
Yet they don’t sell in the USA, and they don’t have a headphone jack. A company meant for repairability and reliability not having a headphone jack. That’s like when framework removed it from the 16 inch laptop.
I don’t think your comparison to Framework is justified since 1) they made a headphone jack expansion module that’s available along with all the other ports and 2) the Framework 16 has 6 expansion bays instead of 4. If you need a headphone jack you get a 25% increase in configurable ports, and if you don’t need one you get a 50% increase in ports. Plus, you can easily switch between those two cases.
- that is a solution to a problem nobody wanted.
- Technically 5 if you’re using one of them for the headphone jack (which you wouldn’t need if it was included on the device ready). Also the one with 4 already has a headphone jack included, so you’d still have 4 available ports.
And 3.
They’re small and I could lose it and would have to spend even more money for a replacement.
You’re right, it is amazing. These people are giving honest constructive criticism of a product. Companies often have to pay money to get that information. These complaints are generally valid as well.
The company’s commitment to repairability is commendable but it’s in lieu of other important factors. If I have to make the choice between having the newer OS with stronger, more powerful hardware or the ability to repair my device I’m going to choose the former every time. From the get-go the device might last longer simply because I won’t want to get rid of it as quickly. The 5 is of course a significant improvement over previous releases but it’s still behind. If they can deliver a device that is not immediately outdated in comparison to other phones of similar price then this would be a no brainer for me and likely others as well.
Similarly availability is another major factor. You can’t buy what you can’t get your hands on. Even more importantly it’s even more futile to buy one for a network that doesn’t support it at all. Obviously the creators just aren’t ready to expand into another market and that’s fine but it doesn’t make the criticism any less important for their mission.
