And I’ll be right there with Bluesky, it’s so much better on every issue, significantly fewer bots, no ads, no premium version, and no AI
X will likely merge with TruthSocial as the defacto Conservative/Right-wing social media site (named something dumb like “XTruthXSocialX”), while BlueSky will become the defacto Liberal social media site.
I think I used to play Halo 3 with that guy
Oh yea, he never turned off his mic. Pretty sure I heard his mom come down with tang and Oreos and he cussed her out
His mom has pretty good tang though 👀👀
That would be great - much better than the current situation where twitter is run like a right-wing site but still has people from across the political spectrum hanging out there due to inertia.
99% of my Feed on Bluesky was just people saying they’ve left Twitter for Bluesky. No amount of suggest less of this helped.
Yeah thats how it was here after the reddit fiasco.
It has improved here though, thank Jeebus.
happens on every “new” social media platform that is similar to another social media platform. Was all over Lemmy when people were “boycotting” reddit…course most went right back to reddit when the boycotting was over.
Well i am on both. A lack of rpg and splatoon keeps me mostly on Reddit
Morrowind would keep me there but i dont really have much to say about it anyways in terms of posts (that hasnt already been said) so ion need it myself :3
Tbf, were you on lemmy last summer?
Or on Reddit after everybody left Digg
On my feed it’s just pictures of pets and people who I don’t know making lists of things they like. But to be fair, I just installed the app today.
Haha there is a gigantic wave of people switching over from twitter right now, that’s just what is on people’s minds. The conversation will move on soon enough.
Just like when Threads launched and or when Reddit made the API changes. You get a flood of new users who want to talk about being new users.
Lemmy is just that but Linux and reddit users
Not best either
What’s Bluesky?
Looking like it’s about time lmgtfy to make a comeback.
It’s the hot new non-billionaire controlled social media app for the 2020s: https://bsky.app/
Non-billionaire controlled so far. It’s a public benefit corporation, which is vulnerable to being Altmaned. Once it becomes valuable money will find a way.
That’s where the federated angle comes in. Not quite there yet, but as the network grows the vulnerability to the original node getting taken over by a bad actor lessens.
A feature that makes it easier for their users to migrate to a competitor? Blockchain Capital invests $15M in BlueSky. Insert that Anakin / Padme meme:
Anakin: Now that we’ve invested, let’s make that federation feature priority 0
Padme: As in highest priority, right?
Anakin:
Padme: As in highest priority, right?Is blue sky federated? I thought it was another closed garden. If slightly more open than Twitter.
Bluesky grew out of a project at twitter whose goal was to create a federated protocol. Then when they were split off from twitter when Musk took over they had to start their own twitter-style platform to be the first player in that federated protocol. Now that that part is running they’re gradually building out the originally planned system of allowing more servers to be part of the federation: https://docs.bsky.app/docs/advanced-guides/federation-architecture
not billionaire owned, but a bunch of VC firms led by one called Blockchain Capital already put a 15million USD bridle on them
No. Just the same shit with less users. Let it grow (by the millions as lemmy is trying to convince us) and you’ll see. I say we get back to smoke signals
Google will find a way to put ads in the smoke
Oh, ok.
I’ve started removing trash sites. I blocked twatter and reddit at my router.
Ha ha ha, yeah, sure. Bluesky won’t defeat xitter, at best it’ll just be the “next thing” once xitter finally finishes getting rid of most of its users, which I guess will take more than 4 years from now.
It’ll only defeat X if corporations and specifically media and sports entities start using it.
The great thing about BlueSky is how under-the-radar its flown for the last few years. Virtually no advertising. No legions of bot accounts spamming with invites and generic attention baiting posts. No |>u33y N |3io blowing up my mentions. No enshittification, because its just a primitive clone of the original Bird Site.
The more popular it gets, the less likely that’ll last. BlueSky won’t defeat Twitter until it becomes Twitter.
My issue with BS is it took VC money from crypto bros.
What do we think will happen when they come looking for their returns on investment?
It will almost certainly become Twitter as it was created by the Twitter founder. The only difference being that it will become the Twitter from before Musk took over. Which is a massive difference.
It’s worse than that.
Blockchain Capital LLC was co-founded by Steve Bannon pal Brock Pierce, a major crypto advocate, perennial presidential candidate, and close friend of Eric Adams. Pierce has dozens of other shady MAGA/Russia ties as well.
https://toad.social/@davetroy/113476797192400901
Dorsey’s already out, the people running the project are from the TESCREAL gang.
The only difference being that it will become the Twitter from before Musk took over.
Dorsey is just as emotionally stunted and socially reactionary as Musk. He simply isn’t as wealthy.
BlueSky has thrived not because Dorsey crafted it into a purer vision, but because he’s neglected it and allowed the user base to have their way.
I never liked Twitter to begin with so I’m not one to defend him. My preferred one is Mastodon, but generally I don’t like the format to begin with. At any rate, I’ll still take pre-musk Twitter over Xitter any day.
Things were better before they got worse, sure.
But the problem in these systems is the trade off between centralization (consolidated control and monolithic content) and federation (poor navigation/petty administrative feuds/less quality content). Switching from Twitter to BlueSky relieves you from the current admin’s fuckups, but you’re still stuck in a flawed system.
I fully agree. When I feel like using a Twitter like platform (which is exceedingly rare), I use Mastodon
Dorsey is no longer associated to bluesky. He was removed from their board.
Born free 🎵
Or… or… hear me out… everyone comes to lemmy?
You mean Mastodon?
Not even remotely the same kind of platform
Hopefully not. This place is worse than Reddit.
Then why are you here instead of at Reddit?
On principle, personally. I was done with Reddit after the API shit.
Yup. I’m also not super happy with Lemmy, but I’m too stubborn to go back. Meanwhile, I’m building my own rendition of Reddit, which will probably have the same problems, but at least I’m making an effort.
If something genuinely good shows up, I’ll go there. But BlueSky ain’t it, so here I stay.
I see BlueSky as different than Lemmy. In my mind, Twitter = BlueSky and Mastodon and Reddit = Lemmy and Kbin (if that’s even still around).
Agreed.
I hate Twitter’s format though, so Mastodon isn’t interesting at all to me. I really like the Reddit setup where discussion is around a presented topic (whether a link or a text post), instead of the Twitter/Mastodon format where you follow general topics and people. I don’t care about individuals, I care about ideas, and Reddit/Lemmy seem to distill ideas around topics I care about better than Twitter/Mastodon. However, both Lemmy and Reddit tend to encourage echo chambers, which I strongly dislike, hence why I’m working on something else.
BlueSky seems like Twitter 2.0, so I’m just as uninterested as I ever was in Twitter and Mastodon.
I think they meant twitter is worse than reddit and hope we don’t get an influx of twitter users.
It should be Mastodon. This is the same shit with a different name
Mastodon is more of a protocol than a single service. It succeeds/fails on those terms, in the same way the old Web1.0 protocols did. Which is to say, you can’t enshitify a thousand micro-sites at once like you can enshittify one big site that’s under central control. But you also can’t do things like navigate, search, and socialize efficiently.
Mastodon is successful in large part because it isn’t. When you let a single cartel of corporate psychos run a Mastodon account like they would a Twitter or Facebook, you end up with Truth Social (literally just a Mastodon branch instance).
ActivityPub is the protocol though. Mastodon is an implementation of the protocol.
That’s an interesting perspective. Do you think the same about lemmy? While also decentralized using the sameprotocol, it seems reasonably efficient to me. I’m from a small instance from my country, and the global content is easily available to me.
I just have a lot of trouble explaining how it works to people who aren’t tech savy… this is what I consider the main issue withthe fediverse as a whole.
Do you think the same about lemmy?
I think it depends on how the federated sites are administered going forward. We’ve already seen bigger sites - like Threads, for instance - try to integrate into the overall ecosystem. And I could see a future in which one of the larger instances - a .world or .sh.itjust.works - is too much for a handful of amateur admins to handle. Hand off the instance to a venture capital firm and you could see rapid enshitification.
I just have a lot of trouble explaining how it works to people who aren’t tech savy…
I’m reasonably tech savvy and even I’d struggle to tell you exactly how it works. How is .world hosted? Is it load-balanced or otherwise optimized? Who controls registration and which other instances does it integrate with? How do you find a list of active instances to federate against? Who do you even talk to in order to federate with another instance? What does the API look like and which instances allow you to crawl them? How do bots integrate with the environment and what can an admin do to limit them? No idea.
There’s a bunch of things I think I should be able to do but I can’t. For instance, signing into .world but only surfing content that’s hosted on .sh.itjust.works.
There’s also a lot of petty politics. Admins deciding on a whim who to block, whether it be individuals or whole instances. Waking up one day and suddenly not having access to a dozen of my favorite subs, because two admins are feuding, is not particularly fun. I never have a problem like that on BlueSky or Instagram.
a .world or .sh.itjust.works - is too much for a handful of amateur admins to handle. Hand off the instance to a venture capital firm and you could see rapid enshitification.
Lemmy is federalized. It is expected that many .worlders would just jump ship to another instance. And I don’t see how the venture capital firm could stop them… For as long as one organization doesn’t control 60%+ of all user’s instances we should be unshitifiable. It is possible for enshitification to happen… but it is of a greater difficulty, because the other non-shit instances still exist and they are federated, thus able to access the same content.
They could try and pull up the drawbridge and de-federate from every other instance that isn’t under the control of the firm so that the content of the venture capital instances are exclusive, but for as long as they don’t control 60%+ of all user’s instances we are good.
It is not to hard to imagine that, if .world where to be sold like that, half or more would jump ship. At least that’s what I hope.
It is expected that many .worlders would just jump ship to another instance.
Why? Why wouldn’t they just consume the click bait content and shameless pandering propagated by the incoming owner, just like folks still on Twitter, Facebook, and Reddit?
For as long as one organization doesn’t control 60%+ of all user’s instances
You don’t need 60% of instances. You need the plurality of site content. That’s what the users are coming for.
We’ve already seen bigger sites - like Threads, for instance - try to integrate into the overall ecosystem.
People complain that the mainstream sites are relatively closed ecosystems, but they also complain when those sites try to be more open ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
People don’t like the monolith when it’s over there and they don’t like it when it comes over here, either
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read about embrace/extend/extinguish to see why
Bluesky is (in theory) federated, but I think you can’t run your own server yet. We’ll see if they keep their promise.
Its protocol has some improvements over ActivityPub, for example you can use a domain name you own as your username even if you’re not hosting your own instance, and your user identity is portable in that case - you can move to a different instance but keep the same username.
They took crypto bros VC money.
Do we really think they’ll allow mass federation without getting returns on their investment?
There was a good explanation about why not mastodon the other day. It basically boils down to Bluesky is just an easier transition.
Yeah, that’s what I heard from my microblogging colleagues too. They tried Mastodon during the first wave of Twitter exodus, found it too frustrating/difficult, tried Bluesky and stuck with it ever since.
What’s the difference, really? Aren’t they both decentralized microblogging social networks?
One is a product with investors selling itself on promises of decentralization (bluesky), the other is a genuine community tool (mastodon) that actually provides decentralization.
Bluesky is mit licensed, if it goes bad what’s to stop a fork? Once there’s interop between the protocols will it matter at all?
There are a million ways open platforms can be undermined, especially when serious money stands to be gained from it. See basically all of human history as exhibit A…
Can you give a specific example of how bluesky could be?
Not 100% sure but I don’t think anything would stop either a fork or a new app that uses the same protocol.
I really don’t see how it could matter tbh
I think lemmy should get atproto support too.
BlueSky isn’t decentralised yet. Right now the only thing that is decentralized is data storage. You can’t set up an independent federated instance yet. They promise they will add that feature, but it hasn’t happened yet.
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Let’s replace one proprietary service with another. It looks so good with its API wide open, like it’s never getting enshittified.
Bluesky is not proprietary, it’s mit licensed and open source
It’s obvious to me that we need to have laws to enforce portability of data and interoperability for large platforms.
I’m sure the Republican govt will get right on that
I mean, this is one of the central pitches behind Web3.0/Crypto. Everything has a digital tag and its all going to be portable between platforms.
Did it come to fruition? No, of course not. Its all a pile of scams. But then so was Web2.0 and Web1.0 during their heydays.
Web 1 and 2 were a pile of scams? Wthdym
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot-com_bubble
This goes all the way back to '98, when the original slew of start-ups gobbled up investments only to flop a few years later. Web2.0 had its own bubble burst starting in 2008, taking down a host of the early social media ecosystems (MySpace, Yahoo, and Geocities, most famously). Huge upfront investments with the promise of explosive ROI that took far longer to materialize (or simply never did).
A great deal of the valuation in these firms was built on lies and bullshit - misreported user activity, overly optimistic monetization estimates, and outright accounting fraud.
2020 gave us what looked like was going to be a third Crypto bust wave (FTX being the big industry leader leading the charge). But the pivot to AI appears to have bailed a lot of the bigger investors out. We’ll see how long that lasts.
Oh, I think I understand your point, but we do have different definitions of what a scam is.
For me, if the guys getting fucked are capitalists or huge investing firms that were trying to leverage their money to make more money just from speculation and not being actually involved, that’s not a scam, that justice. Economic bubbles happen because big money guys are trying to gamble the system to start with, so karma.
In the other hand, crypto scams are more close to a conman selling snake oil to the uneducated masses, that for me is a full fledged scam.
Yeah…the new Dumbass Of Government Efficiency (DOGE) will be right on that. Top priority…I’m sure…
Twitter facilitated exactly what Elon set out to do with it.
It costs a lot to become vice president, especially if you weren’t born in America
Good. Fuck Elon Musk and Twitter.
What’s good exchanging one bad service for another bad service? Elon can just buy it.
Bummer that isn’t mastodon but any inconvenience to musk is appreciated
I say this as someone who likes fediverse microblogging (Mastodon, MissKey, etc) it will never be Mastodon. Mastodon and its maintainers are staunchly against all the things that would make it a viable replacement to Twitter.
could you elaborate for people who don’t use it?
Mastodon is, like, fine, but it has one gaping flaw that makes it utterly unusable for me.
Basically, the issue is you cannot be assured that any particular instance contains the entire conversation thread/replies, because they’re not necessarily sent to every server participating in the conversation.
Bluesky fixes that by the ‘firehose’ feeds federating out to the PDSes and providing complete reply chains, which just flat out makes it a better experience since you can actually see what everyone is saying, not just what people on servers you might be following already are saying.
It’s a giant stupid flaw in Mastodon (since other AP based platforms such as, for example, Lemmy don’t have it) and really should be addressed since it makes the platform darn near useless since why am I following people to only get half of what might be a useful thread?
that sounds crazy. that makes the idea of federation pointless imo… thank you for the response
Yeah, it makes federation, especially if you run your own server and don’t have a large user base, largely broken.
You’ll end up getting a shockingly small amount of replies to people you follow’s posts, which (for me) is the whole reason I’m here.
It almost forces you onto a larger server if you want a reasonable experience (or you have to start ingesting huge amounts of data via relays), but I mean, at that point why not just use bluesky instead?
They don’t like algorithms. They want you to select which content you see.
That’s all I’ve got. Mastodon is a better, more open tech. And it’s pretty easy to get set up, relatively. It’s insane that companies haven’t jumped on it.
You don’t even have to quit Twitter. You can just post to more than one place and give people the option.
Threads (for better or worse) demonstrates that that’s not a fundamental obstacle for fediverse microblogging.
If someone wanted to launch a Mastodon fork with algorithm-driven content discovery, they could do. Just as with Lemmy/kbin/mbin, the beauty of the fediverse is that different servers can take quite different approaches to use experience design whilst still maintaining compatibility with the rest of the community.
This is what happens when someone can’t put themselves into their user’s shoes and then wonder why a product isn’t doing as well as it is.
They proclaim the product is great, it’s everyone else that’s the problem
Actually not a bummer in my opinion, let people sort into different platforms based on their interests like we used to do with forums.
A fragmented internet is a better internet
I somewhat agree, but it’s not going to happen. If Bluesky wins this battle, they’re just going to be the dominant platform. It’s not going to spread out. It’s just going to migrate. A federated alternative would at least be spread out by design, though connected still.
that’s not how the modern internet works and unfortunately i am forced to be on facebook because all 4 of my hobbies no longer exists outside of it.
if people moved to the fediverse instead of bluesky or such, then we’d actually be able to have a fragmented internet again - due to how the fediverse interconnects through federation.
which i think is the best selling point the fediverse have - no longer would users need to be on multiple services, they could just be on one, and still interact with the services across the fediverse. but unless there is a mass-migration of one single service to the fediverse, such as people choosing mastodon over bluesky, to be the dominant service - it’s just never going to happen.
But it’s not fragmented. Mastodon is still the odd “vegan” option while BlueSky is becoming the main Twitterlike platform. Mastodon is still coming out the other end mostly the same.
Yeah, and that’s a good thing specially for the reason I just mentioned
So, a Splinternet?
