- cross-posted to:
- programmerhumor@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- programmerhumor@lemmy.ml
Add another column labelled “knowing the right people” with the bar so large the other two are blips.
I came here to say that. Who you know makes the other two criteria become irrelevant.
At my work they openly mention that 80% of their hires are from referrals. And I’m not talking about a little unknown company. They have more than 10,000 employees. I’m one of the 20%.
However, I only got my first job because I knew a VP at that company.
Same
So true! Out of the five jobs I got over my career, three were from referrals.
Interview: “reverse this binary tree with an algorithmic efficiency of O(1)”
Job: “The marketing team would like you to indent this button by 10 pixels”
All of this. When I tell people I meet that we don’t do coding tests, we instead do tiny assignments, they often get quite excited. It also seems to be way, way more effective
I’d rather present it as a non-overlapping Venn diagram. It’s not the level, those are different skills completely
At some point you’ll need to know the basic syntax of some programing language.
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I stopped sitting in on interviews at my old job. Everyone that I thought was a great interview ended up being a shitty employee.
Most people can do most jobs.
Companies shouldn’t legally be allowed to be this selective.
Do you have any qualifiers for that? Like “with sufficient time to learn” or something? Is there some kind of personal development that you think could enable that?
In my understanding, asking a chef to be a doctor or a software engineer to be an artist often doesn’t work great.
How selective do you think is appropriate?
To be clear: I’m a hiring manager for some specialized stuff. I’m genuinely curious about your perspective because I hope it can help how I do that work. I’m not trying to argue with you or prove you wrong or anything.
Given enough time.
Obviously professions that take years to study have that barrier to entry.
But if your job isn’t life or death most likely they will already have to teach you everything you need to know on the job.
Got it. Okay, that makes much more sense. Nothing new there for me, then.
When you say companies shouldn’t be “this selective,” what are you referencing that they’re being too selective about? If I’m being more picky than I need to be, I should stop, so I’m eager to learn something here
I think collecting applications for months just to tell 99% of applicants they wasted their time is part of what’s making the job market so horrible, that and most job postings being fake.
For service jobs and really any job that doesn’t require special licenses there’s absolutely no good reason why they shouldn’t hire one of the first to apply instead of holding out.
Sorry for the delay, busy days.
Yeah, fake postings are total bullshit. I still don’t understand the motivation for them.
As for having jobs up for months, I can understand that when a role has very specific needs. But if the roles specific needs haven’t been made clear in the job description, then yeah, that’s total bullshit
My job postings are usually up for two to three months, and the rejection rate is maybe around 80-90% for the resume review stage at the beginning. I’d like to think the job descriptions are clear, but that’s subjective. But do those sound like reasonable numbers to you, though? What do you think is reasonable? (Like I said, I want these opinions for my improvement)
Unfortunately, I haven’t hired for a service job, so I don’t have a complete perspective here. You mention “one of the first to apply.” For an imaginary job that requires no background, what do you think would be good reasons to reject a candidate or choose one over another?
oh man, I got rejected so many times from supermarkets and fast food joints while they were still advertising that they were hiring. Absolutely fucked.
sobs in social anxiety
put a triple the height column right there - luck to get an interview in the first place. You’re lucky if an actual human reads your CV nowadays, instead of an AI fishing for keywords
I’d even say add another column of “Skills to get the interview”.
I don’t know, if I have enough Daniel Abrahams for the job :-(
As an IT/Development manager, I only had one role that I hired for where the skills for getting the job matched the skills for doing the job: Business Analyst. Not job entailed presenting information clearly, both written and verbally. So I expected the resume and cover letter to be organized and clear.
Programmers, on the other hand, I wouldn’t expect the same level of polish. But I would expect a complete absence of spelling errors and typos. Because in programming these things count – a lot.
A lot of the people that applied, and that I hired, did not have English as a first language. So I gave a lot of latitude with regard to word selection and grammar. But not spelling. Use a goofy word or two, but spell them right.
I figured that most people were highly motivated when writing a resume – about an motivated on you can get. And if not level of motivation cannot get you to take care, then you’ll just be a bug creation machine if I let you touch my codebase.
100% this
And the same thinking applies to interviews, but that’s very difficult. My leadership sometimes gets surprised about how much I help interviewees, and I have to clarify to them that I don’t care about how good they are at interviewing. I care how good they are at the job.
Unfortunately, this makes my interviews super long, but we have arguably the best engineering team in the company.
Our new CTO was very skeptical of our long interviews and ordered us to shorten them. Fortunately, we had one scheduled already. He sat in on it and is no longer worried about our long interviews. He understood the value once he was able to see where the candidate stumbled and excelled in our … simulations? of the work. We try to simulate certain tasks in the interview, especially collaborative ones, to see how they would actually do the work. It’s really hard for us as interviewers to prepare and run, but it’s proven highly effective so far
But I would expect a complete absence of spelling errors and typos. Because in programming these things count – a lot.
Let’s not exaggerate. We have many kinds of spell checkers, all kinds of autocomplete, code reviews, automated testing, linters, and compilers that won’t compile if something is spelled wrong. Spelling is the least of a programme’s concerns, as it should be.
Except I’m not actually talking about spelling, per se, but about attention to detail. Spelling errors in a resume is just sloppy rubbish.
Ah, right, the proxy evaluation that’s so famously effective. Lol
Hardest interview I ever had was a job where I worked the least. Second-most lucrative.
If they have the opportunity to be selecting from a wide pool and picking the best out of the candidates, good for them. Still sucks to be an applicant to such a company.
Don’t forget getting the interview.
I’ve got the right column on lock. I’ve never had an interview that wasn’t followed by an offer. But I was still stuck in a dead-end job for years trying to get an interview.
Once I finally got an interview adjacent to my field, I was promoted within 6 months, then poached by another organization a year after that and had quadrupled my income in under 2 years.
But it took forever to get that process started.
only heard of most of the crap in my resume. learn fast break things
The more HR takes over the interview process, the more important getting past HR becomes than doing the job.
real 😭