It’s Valves latest attempt to squeeze the already brainwashed PC G*mers of their cash.
This isn’t even their first attempt. Remember the 2015 disaster, 7 months before it was dropped.
The only difference this time is the Steam logo. Printed on the box like a trigger phrase to the brainwashed masses.
Lord GabeN needs to buy more Aston Martin Valkyries and mega yachts. I guess sales on unfinished games and the LootBox gambling economy have slowed down.
So I have both. A built pc and consoles and nothing irks me more than pcmasterrace folks straight up lying and misrepresenting the facts about building a pc.
First of all it hasn’t been economically viable to build a pc since Covid. Graphics card prices and now ram. In a few years it’ll be something else.
Second you got 1 person that finds a steal of a deal from someone on eBay and they preach to the universe that parts are out there and readily available for cheap. Not to mention all the risks associated from buying used parts.
Third a lot more multiplayer games are made with console in mind and are poorly optimized for pc and run like shit and look like shit. That doesn’t happen much on console because the graphics are already capped to a certain maximum most of the time.
Lastly pc players are much fewer than console players and on certain games you’ll be hard pressed to have queue times under 5 minutes. Even brand new games! I bought black ops 3 and 2k18 at release for pc and queue times were ABYSMAL.
If you are a tech savvy person it makes sense to make that investment because you have a lot more options on pc for modding and you’ll save on the multiplayer side because you won’t be paying for a live service but for the average person building a pc makes no sense.
First of all it hasn’t been economically viable to build a pc since Covid. Graphics card prices and now ram. In a few years it’ll be something else.
I wonder what the break-even cost is if you factor in the monthly subscription fee for online pay. How long do you need to use your PC and play online with it for the PC, even with elevated hardware prices, for it to be the more economical option.
That’s a good question. There’s a lot of factors at play and I’d love to see the math on it.
It’s not for people that build their own PCs. It’s for console people that are Steam-curious. People that bought the Steamdeck but don’t have a PC. I know a few of them.
I’m excited to see an expansion away from MS and Sony and see what improvements Steam makes for Linux. Steam (combined with Win 11) is a big reason why Linux is growing in use and development.
I like Steam as a whole but I do wish the PC market was a little more decentralized.
This is what makes me laugh so much. I had an argument a few years ago with a guy who shat on low-powered PCs because his gaming rig was 100 times more powerful.
And like dude, this shit isn’t for you. The world doesn’t revolve around your needs.
It’s not for people that build their own PCs
Specifically it’s designed to be attractive for people that want a bang for buck, console like experience. and not for the PC enthusiast that build their own system. The whole point is precisely not to compete with self built systems. Why would they? These people are already mainly steam users.
I so so so hope steam is gonna stay the Monopoly they are. They are literally the only company imho that have the humanity to keep gaming fun and affordable.
Yes I know how much they charge for developers to be able to sell. But also if you know what that’s about in truth it’s also not a bad thing.
Hail GabeN
As for Steam staying the monopoly, the biggest thing I worry about is what happens when Gabe dies or retires. I want to believe that the next person will guide them down the same path, but I’ve been burned so many times before.
Gaben has good people around him with similar value system. It will take longer time to dissolve, and hopefully can stay for at least one more generation the way it is.
Bold of you to assume you can build an equivalent PC in terms of price/performance without knowing Steam Machine’s price. Good luck with RAM
Valve already announced it will be priced similarly to a PC you build yourself.
specs wise yes but you will not build a PC in the same form factor for anywhere near that price.
Yeah, the form factor, HDMI-CEC support, and integration with other valve hardware are what really sell it. But it’s not going to be underpriced for the specs, like consoles tend to be.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
Good luck with RAM
RAM costs will likely affect both custom built machines and the steam machine equally.
There’s a lot of assumptions going around the internet as fact with valves new devices.
I feel like the biggest thing everyone always overlooks is the amount of researchyou need to do to build a PC. Understanding what motherboard, ram, cpu, and gpu will let you play the games you want is not very clear, especially now we have AMD making good cpus and Intel making Gpus.
The naming conventions are all over the place and the specs on what’s best and what’s compatible is opaque at times.
Building the PC is easy, but making sure you didn’t waste your money by buying a motherboard that won’t work on the next generation of chips or you misunderstood the 10+ gpu models distributed by multiple different distributors is also easy.
Yes and no, if you don’t feel like doing a bunch of research pcpartspicker and reddit have all kinds of recommended PC builds at every budget level. You can also pay people to just build a PC for you. Also… pre-built gaming PCs have always been a thing? So I don’t really see the hype tbh.
That’s also research. Someone building a PC for you will also charge for labor, and that’s price parity with a pre-built. The hype is that Valve is front loading a bunch of labor free of MS shitty practices.
Yeah, that’s what I was trying to get across. Either you have to do a lot of research or youre doing a “pre-built” configuration. At that point what Valve is offering is at least equal to other pre-built concepts.
I guess, but anyone buying a steam machine is gonna have to research the specs anyways, and more exhaustively, check to see if every game they like is supported. I get why open-source enthusiasts are excited about this project and I am to, but in my opinion the cross-section of people who a) aren’t willing to build their own PC or even research different options and b) are willing to daily drive Linux are pretty slim. Especially when they find out they can’t play BF6.
It’s more likely that Steam leans into the “Steam[Device] Verified ✅/❌” labeling. If anything, that makes navigating the marketplace much easier for a mid-performance buyer. They’ve already done it with steam deck, it’s a good angle to pressure both devs and consumers into their device.
People buying this won’t be “daily driving” their pc in any sense. I think the idea is unlock steam’s library (and marketplace) the massive casual phone/tablet crowd. If I didn’t already have a dedicated gaming PC I would definitely be interested.
Nah I still don’t get it. Windows PC gamers don’t have to think about compatibility at all right now - every major game release is compatible with windows, apart from some Nintendo exclusives. You dont even have to think about it - when a new game is announced I know I will be able to play it on Windows without jumping through any hoops. Even if it’s a simple check mark for every game it’s still more work, and many games are gonna be blocked because of anti-cheat.
I also think that very few casual phone/tablet gamers are going to be purchasing a dedicated Linux gaming machine that isn’t a daily driver computer. Heck, most Americans don’t even have a desktop nowadays. I don’t think there’s a price out for the steam machine yet but we’re talking over $1000 right? Probably more like $1500 once you factor in peripherals? That’s a TON of money for a casual tablet/phone gamer to drop on something that they won’t also be using as a regular computer.
I think windows pc gamers are irrelevant. To me, this is more about getting console players. Particularly where this pc is being advertised for living room tvs. To me this is for getting console gamers into pc gaming, not about getting pc gamers into a different kind of pc gaming. Console players are use to game exclusivity, and where steam hosts a far wider variety of games than any console, the fact you cant play BF6 I think is somewhat irrelevant. Could never play Halo on Playstation, but that never stopped people from buying Playstation. But this strategy hinges on Valve’s ability to put the Steam Machine at a price that console players are comfortable paying.
Edit: when it comes to phone an tablet, yeah I agree. But I also don’t think the Steam Machine is gonna be more than $1000.
We’ll see I suppose. I will add, though, that exclusive games absolutely do drive people to Xbox or Playstation (or Nintendo). Not a deal-breaker for most people, but a factor for some people.
I suspect most people aren’t buying it as a daily driver, but as a gaming device. I don’t use my steamdeck for computing (although toyed with the idea) for example.
Typical, “it is not for me, therefore I declare it is stupid and not for anyone!”
It’s ok to not be marketed to. It’s good that a product was not designed for you specifically. “I can build the same PC…” Shhhh, shut up. Go do it, let other people like and enjoy their stuff. You don’t have to buy it if you don’t like it.
You’re not seeing the big picture. It’s not a box. It’s much more than that.
It’s a cube.
A Weighted Storage Cube, if you will. ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)
But can it provide emotional support as well?!
That’s a whole new dimension!
There’s a hidden advantage here apart from moving away from Microsoft, or having 1st party controller support.
Game devs will have a precise target to optimize for.
If enough steam machines and steam decks are out there, it simplifies porting software since you have a handful of fixed targets to hit. A studio could easily buy a few of these appliances for testing and development, and know for certain the product will run as intended. It’s a luxury currently enjoyed by consoles, and it really does help their dominance in their respective niches.
This also helps smaller studios since the bare minimum means targeting a known steam platform, rather than pulling machine specs out of thin air and taking their best shot. It’s a much easier problem to solve and takes a lot less time and money.
I think there will always be room for high-end gaming, but as long as you’re “steam machine 2025 compatible” or whatever, you know what you’re going to get.
Yep. My friend is an indie game developer and while his studio’s next release is “Windows only” (and consoles) they are testing to make sure it runs well on the Steam Deck via Proton / will be Verified.
The next release is Windows Only. However, it includes consoles and Steam Deck verified…
Did I read that correctly? What are they skipping, the Commodore 64?
Windows + major consoles, and Steam Deck verified via Proton.
They are not making a Linux build, but they are making sure the Windows build plays nice with Proton. At least that’s how I read that.
Does that mean that I’m left hanging with my Sinclair ZX81? Again?
Windows only (plus this long list of other hardware.)
With the diversity of Steam boxes out there, you can’t really optimize anything.
apart from moving away from Microsoft
Linux.
You’re on Lemmy. I’d appreciate you not using such cuss words
Forgive me father, for I have sinned.
For the average PC user, the (modern) Steam Machine is a mediocre 3rd-party prebuilt system with the interesting quirk of being Linux native with no Microsoft licensing.
For the average gamer, the Steam Machine is a console-like experience to a game library stretching back to nearly the dawn of gaming with little worry that the next release will have you purchasing your favorite titles again.
For the average game developer, the new lineup is excellent reference hardware. Having something real to target helps combat scope creep, whereby a game has fancy features that look nice until you realize the game only runs properly on a $15K machine for example.
For Valve, they are in a life or death battle to sever their dependency on Microsoft. Their hardware is mostly an excuse to build out their platform capabilities
- The 2013 Steam Machine coincided with releasing a Linux native version of their client.
- The OG Steam controller encourages devs to implement their Steam Input virtual control package.
- The Steam Link upgraded their remote play capabilities.
- The Steam Deck coincided with the deployment of Proton, so they can make their back-catalog run outside windows on any x86_64 machine. It also served as a testbed for improving their power efficiency and standby mode operations.
- With the Steam Frame, they’re implementing both FEX and Lepton:
- FEX runs x86_64 games on ARM devices (meaning that it can run any windows game on any average smartphone/tablet/etc if it’s powerful enough)
- Lepton is based on Waydroid to run Android apps on Linux, allowing game developers for Android and the Quest to easily import their titles into the Steam platform
- The Box is an important accessory to the Frame, as the headset is going to be lightweight system comparatively.
Well first we don’t know the price, other than “like a PC” unless I missed something.
Second, sure, someone like me, who already has the background and experience building gaming PCs, maybe (maybe) I could replicate most of the specs at the same cost, possibly even improve them in a few areas. But economies of scale, the labor on my end, shifting market prices… Unless Valve is marking these things up like 50% or more I just don’t see how an individual is going to compete on cost once you include labor.
Or the hours to learn what fits in that form factor. You could duplicate someone else’s build I guess, but you can’t change much without having to learn if it’ll fit.
Oh yeah, I was not even considering trying to jam everything in that tiny case and getting the cooling and cabling sorted out. I would for sure skip that and just go with a standard mid-size tower, were I going to try this (I’m not)
I don’t get it. We don’t know how much it will cost so how could anyone claim they can build one cheaper? Have you seen the cost of memory lately?
The difference between the Steam Machine and an off the shelve gamer pc, is that Valve has created a viable pathway to move away from Microsoft’s dominance in the PC gaming market. This is Valve showing to PC hardware makers that a PC gaming market without Windows is possible. Valve just needs to prove that consumers are willing to buy a Linux gaming machine, so the Steam Machine is the litmus test. Microsoft is Valve’s biggest threat to the survival of their business. Since MS’s anti-consumer behavior will push consumers away from PC gaming. Valve wants to create a PC gaming market where MS’s choke hold has been destroyed. Remember this isn’t Valve’s first attempt, the first Steam Machine was released when Win8 was released where MS tried to push the Windows Store as the default way to download software.
I wish i could upvote this more, PREACH!
But you can build a PC with linux. It’s every bit as possible. Upgradable. Repairable. Functional. Powerful.
You are cheering about yet another proprietary box like a console that affects repairability and how much of it you actually “own” it just because it has linux on it. Yet more “dumbing down” of games to conform to a console spec. You’re blind if you don’t think this will affect games developed to be sold on Steam.
I’m all for linux advancing in gaming, becoming more mainstream, and replacing Windows, but cheering for the demise of PC’s in favor of a proprietary box is a bad idea.
E: this is a very interesting discussion, but I can’t keep replying to the same responses. Lemmy criticizes walled gardens, lack of tech knowledge, anything that isn’t F/OSS, anything that limits ownership of the hardware or the OS…yet here we have people advocating for a proprietary box that has potential to steer game development (yes, toward linux, this is good) and confine it to the steambox’s spec. just because linux good and a semi-benevolent dictatorship is offering it. While I’m not against this console, anything that a BigCorp produces that has the potential to be a walled garden and indirectly constrain development should be met with guarded attitudes and absolutely not cheer the expected demise of PC building or use.
E2: pile it on boys. If lemmy is still here in a decade and Steam does some “bullshit” with the ‘Box I’ll read your complaints as the custom PC market shrinks and gets more expensive thanks to the console-ification of gaming. Consoles aren’t for you per-se. They’re to cheapen hardware, OS, and game development costs and make profits. I’m not against its existence, but leave replacing PC gaming out of your cheering for this box. Good luck.
I’ve built cars and motorcycles. It’s far easier to just buy a car or motorcycle.
That isn’t what the context of the discussion is about. Please read my edit and other responses.
The reason you are being piled on is because Steam, the Steam deck, and most likely both the Frame and the Steam machine, are NOT walled gardens. It is not a console. Valve actively encourages people to use the hardware wherever and however you want, install EPIC, install Heroic, install GOG games, do whatever you want. You can buy a Steam Deck and play only and exclusively pirated games, and Valve won’t stop you, they can’t stop you, because it is just a computer. And it is open, and it is yours. This goes completely against all proprietary software and hardware tenets, and it is incompatible with your argument.
It is a big corporation, and it is a benevolent dictatorship. But Valve is not, and it does not try to behave like a monopoly, it is not proprietary (most of the development work on gaming in Linux is done under FOSS licenses), and it is not a walled garden.
Exactly. It’s just a pre-built, nothing more. Really wouldn’t be surprised if someone tries to run MacOS on the thing
Go to anyone who mainly game either on consoles or a non-hand-built computer this. They won’t do it, because it requires they spend a couple dozen hours researching not only parts but also distros, which is something they know they already don’t care about. I think you might be underestimating the expertise you have in this subject by having it as a hobby if you think that’s easy.
yet another proprietary box like a console that affects repairability and how much of it you actually “own” it just because it has linux on it
Even if I assume the steam hardware is as proprietary as any other random piece of hardware (don’t think that’s true), the reality is that I easily trust Valve 2-10x more in this regard than a Sony / Nintendo / whatever prebuilt to actually deliver a product that doesn’t ship my data off to an advertiser and let’s me replace the ssd without hardlocking itself. The Steam Deck has already done a better on this.
The existence of the Steam Machine does not stop people from building their own Linux gaming box. The Steam Machine just proves that it is possible to do so. Like many people’s first PC was a pre built machine and then their subsequent machines were all custom builds. The Steam Machine can do the same for Linux PCs.
It’s a matter of price vs convenience. If they keep it under some decent price limit and everything is plug and play, fine. Otherwise you’re better with a custom build.
“bUiLD mY oWN Pc”
in this economy???
Not everybody knows how to build a PC or how to install Steam OS on it. Here we also get support from the vendor so we know everything should work fine with the components.
I think it is a great idea! If you dont like it, then there is no downside, just don’t buy it.
I have only ever built my own PCs. My i9, 4020 is sitting in my detached garage right now. And because I’m too lazy to brave the elements to walk out there in the evenings, I game far less than I used to. So I’m thinking about grabbing a steambox to hook up to the basement TV, because it’ll be simple. I will plug it in and it will (ostensibly) just work. No farting around.
Exactly. I turned my gaming rig into a hypervisor, and if I wasn’t dead set on getting Sunshine or Wolf running in Proxmox, I’d be eyeing the Steam Machine.
I don’t know what those things are!
A hypervisor is an OS that exists to run virtual machines. VMWare’s ESXi and Microsoft’s Hyper-V are the more well known ones.
Sunshine is an application that lets you stream games from your computer to Moonlight, kind of like SteamLink.
Wolf is Sunshine, but in a docker container that lets you create multiple profiles that run independently of each other (for example multiple Steam accounts streaming games from one computer simultaneously).
Appreciate that, thank you.
You don’t have to inherently know how to build a PC, but there are step by step guides on the internet. 25 years ago I used a guide from https://www.tomshardware.com/ to build my first PC. Nowadays it’s even easier, you can go to https://pcpartpicker.com/ and filter the builds according to your budget and specific requirements.
Why are you insisting people add an other hobby to their already full lives?
Just so they can get a slightly better deal?
People don’t care, get over it.
I’ve been building my own PCs since the 90s. I would not expect anyone to be able to or want to, build their own computers. It is a hobby, I invest countless hours and money into this hobby. I do not expect others to dedicate as much resources to a hobby as I do.
I don’t want a solution, I want to be mad! Ten minutes of searching for a guide a ten year old could follow? Who do you think I am???
I built my first PC in 2009. You’re right that it isn’t very hard, especially now with resources like what you linked plus videos on YouTube. But not everybody is interested in tinkering like that. There’s research to be done to even know what half this shit means. Your average gamer hasn’t built a PC and doesn’t know AMD from Intel. Younger people these days tend to expect something quick and easy, so they’ll be more likely to buy something prebuilt. People 35ish+ these days tend to be too busy working multiple jobs and/or school and/or managing homes, so they’ll be more likely to buy something that just works when they get an hour to spare.
It’s getting to be exceedingly rare for a person to have the knowledge necessary AND time AND money to build and troubleshoot a modern PC.
As somebody who probably could do it, I might still just buy a steam machine. Because I don’t need cutting edge shit and I just want to sip on whiskey and relax, not have yet another fucking project on my hands. My laptop is old and dying, and I’m looking for a reason to not buy a PS6. This would cover both.
You can find a ps5/iphone repair dude/shop anywhere, pc isnt as accesible, this may make it easier to mantain them longterm, the ideal prebuilt
It looks like you accidentally made your post in the larger header font. If you remove the hyphen at the end, it’ll be normal size again.
Either ppl hated the size or don’t see how it’d be more easily repairable for ppl not living in major cities, like my city doesn’t have a single tech or pc store outside of bestbuy, walmart, target, etc. I dream of microcenter coming here. My ps5 on the other hand, I got 30 repair shops 5 ft away
thanks
