The entire economy can’t just shut down because of some snow. Realisitically the most dangerous part about that weather is the driving, if we just built public transit, their commute wouldn’t even be that different from a sunny day. If you dress for the weather you’ll be fine.
Is this a technical argument like, “It absolutely can shut down. It shouldn’t, but it can.”
Or are you arguing that it should shut down for a day? If so, do mean for holidays or more like a general strike? In either case, would there be exceptions?
Given buddy’s outfit in the meme, I’d reckon they get snow pretty often. Sure if you get 5 cms of snow in Florida, thats a weather emergency. 5 cms of snow in Minnesota is just business as usual.
We get a lot of lake effect snow. The bigger storms aren’t cleaned up for several days and in major situations like that, sure shut non essential services down, but I’ve heard people make this same argument about a light rain so I’m always a little skeptical is it actually the weather or do they just want any excuse not to come in.
Okay, I see what you mean, now. I think I was interpreting “shutdown” in a more absolute sense and “economy” in a broader sense. I was concerned more along the lines of utilities, EMS, etc being unavailable.
In the past they worked a 6 day work week. They’d only call it off due to weather if they had no infrastructure to handle the current weather.
We could institute not working and shutting things down anytime it snows, it also means your municipality will likely gut their snow clearing budget as they won’t justify clearing the streets unless its going to be used for economic activity. They’ll instead wait for the snow to stop and only run clearing operations then as it would take less passes with the plow compared to constantly clearing and salting/sanding.
There are places that are snowy most of the time and everything works just fine. It really isnt that bad if you are prepared and have appropriate infrastructure.
It’s a region dependant luxury. Where I live, transit has tons of tweakers and unstable people. Especially during winter. The city doesn’t bother cleaning blood off the walls for weeks after a stabbing.
I’d love some proper investment into transit and security on said transit, but I’m not holding my breath
In Hong Kong, after a Category 5-equivalent typhoon hit, the metro system was back up again within two days with apologetic announcements that some trains were slightly delayed due to debris on the track.
Probably not the best in the world, but I would consider my city’s public transit network way above the average for what I know. It’s lovely most of the time, just not at rush hours when millions of people have to be moved at the same time, and specially in bad weather.
I’m not sure what your standard for high quality is but I’d bet that even the best one gets overwhelmed in these situations and it’s an absolute hell to ride as well.
Edit: even though I think it is still good, It just came to mind that trains have been crashing as of lately in my country. So the quality could fall due to corruption and capitalism at any moment really…
If its over capacity every rush hour then they should consider running more trains and more frequently around those times, or depending on the trips taken, invest in another transit line to ease congestion.
You cannot oversize the infrastructure for that 1% peak use. It’s just not feasible. It’s the ‘mOaR trains/rails/busses…’ instead of lanes. There isn’t any efficient way of moving that much people around in that little time, imo the solution has to include distributing the use of the resources, like with wfh or even flexible schedules (honestly we should aim for just working less. We humans are doing and making too many things all the time…). What do you do with so many busses and trains just 30 min after the rush hour when almost no one rides it? I’ve seen those massive parking lots where the American yellow school busses lie the 99% of the time when they’re not swarming all the roads, our current lots for busses and trains are quite big already I don’t think they can be scaled that way. And then you have drivers and other workers…
Unlike more lanes, more trains is far easier to implement, cheaper, and basically takes up no space. The extra trains can be used to swap out during maintaince and repairs. They can also be deployed during abnormal congestion such as concerts or sports events.
If our cities will let robotaxis on their streets, i see no problem with robo trains which are literally attached to rails to guide them and would be far easier to implement emergency safety features like auxiliary brakes.
It’s almost like they’re implying it needs expansion and improvements. Maybe if you read past the first sentence without waiting to be immediately outraged, you’d have caught that.
No, I’ve read the whole comment. And I think it’s wrong all of it. Of course we should build good, robust, and reliable public transport networks. But I think those shouldn’t be oversized in excess. In this case I consider much more efficient to shut down or downsize the economy, than to prepare busses and trains, and rails and roads for events that doesn’t happen that often.
‘Sorry boss, the union has put out a message that today we aren’t working.’ is what it should be.
You still just want to be outraged to be outraged. I DIDNT read past your first sentence because it’s clear that’s all you want to do. Feel free to reply, but I’ll just do the same then too.
In my city there are many stretches that run in the surface. The station I took when I was a kid gets veniced once a year or every other year when it pours and shuts the entire line or maybe just a chunk in the middle of it. It’s very much affected by the wether, maybe a bit more than roads since they always set up an auxiliary bus line to cover any shut down.
Snow tires make roads safer in winter but certainly aren’t nearly as safe as a train or tram on rails would be. You having snow tires also has no effect on the other motorists, whom may choose not to use snow tires.
Lol, you sound like you’ve never seen public transit in snowy conditions before. Unless you invest specifically in making that public transit resilient against snow and ice, it’ll crumble as soon as it starts snowing. Here in the Netherlands, where we have good public transit but no good snow/ice resistance it all comes to a halt when it’s snowing. Recently we’ve had a couple of days where basically the entire public transit system came to a halt. And not for extreme snow or blizzards, but for a relatively small layer of snow. It’s simply not worth it to invest all that money just to drive on those rare snowy days apparently
The entire economy can’t just shut down because of some snow. Realisitically the most dangerous part about that weather is the driving, if we just built public transit, their commute wouldn’t even be that different from a sunny day. If you dress for the weather you’ll be fine.
Yes it can.
Is this a technical argument like, “It absolutely can shut down. It shouldn’t, but it can.”
Or are you arguing that it should shut down for a day? If so, do mean for holidays or more like a general strike? In either case, would there be exceptions?
The economy will survive if businesses aren’t open for a day or two in places the weather is angry
Erm actually, have you considered that line go down?
My area experiences snow 2-3 times a week regularly. Thats a bigger issue than a handful of days a year.
And your area probably has the infrastructure to deal with the snow.
In areas where it’s a few times a year it doesn’t make sense to maintain a fleet of vehicles to make conditions safe.
Given buddy’s outfit in the meme, I’d reckon they get snow pretty often. Sure if you get 5 cms of snow in Florida, thats a weather emergency. 5 cms of snow in Minnesota is just business as usual.
They probably just pour salt on everything and then wonder why all the plants and fish are dying.
“Experiences snow” is different from “gets dumped on for hours and hours straight like those once every year or two level storm”.
We get a lot of lake effect snow. The bigger storms aren’t cleaned up for several days and in major situations like that, sure shut non essential services down, but I’ve heard people make this same argument about a light rain so I’m always a little skeptical is it actually the weather or do they just want any excuse not to come in.
Okay, I see what you mean, now. I think I was interpreting “shutdown” in a more absolute sense and “economy” in a broader sense. I was concerned more along the lines of utilities, EMS, etc being unavailable.
But why can’t the economy shut down for a few days?
In the past the economy had to shut down because of bad weather regularly, now we have all those machines and produce much more efficiently.
The economy is tired. It needs to shut down sometimes. :(
Have you hugged your economy today? ;_;
In the past they worked a 6 day work week. They’d only call it off due to weather if they had no infrastructure to handle the current weather.
We could institute not working and shutting things down anytime it snows, it also means your municipality will likely gut their snow clearing budget as they won’t justify clearing the streets unless its going to be used for economic activity. They’ll instead wait for the snow to stop and only run clearing operations then as it would take less passes with the plow compared to constantly clearing and salting/sanding.
There are places that are snowy most of the time and everything works just fine. It really isnt that bad if you are prepared and have appropriate infrastructure.
That’s one way of saying you haven’t commuted by bus, train, or subway in your entire life, I guess.
Yeah, public transit is great for many reasons, but reliability in bad weather is not one of them.
Maybe you’ve just never got to use good, high quality public transit.
It’s a region dependant luxury. Where I live, transit has tons of tweakers and unstable people. Especially during winter. The city doesn’t bother cleaning blood off the walls for weeks after a stabbing.
I’d love some proper investment into transit and security on said transit, but I’m not holding my breath
In Hong Kong, after a Category 5-equivalent typhoon hit, the metro system was back up again within two days with apologetic announcements that some trains were slightly delayed due to debris on the track.
Probably not the best in the world, but I would consider my city’s public transit network way above the average for what I know. It’s lovely most of the time, just not at rush hours when millions of people have to be moved at the same time, and specially in bad weather. I’m not sure what your standard for high quality is but I’d bet that even the best one gets overwhelmed in these situations and it’s an absolute hell to ride as well.
Edit: even though I think it is still good, It just came to mind that trains have been crashing as of lately in my country. So the quality could fall due to corruption and capitalism at any moment really…
If its over capacity every rush hour then they should consider running more trains and more frequently around those times, or depending on the trips taken, invest in another transit line to ease congestion.
You cannot oversize the infrastructure for that 1% peak use. It’s just not feasible. It’s the ‘mOaR trains/rails/busses…’ instead of lanes. There isn’t any efficient way of moving that much people around in that little time, imo the solution has to include distributing the use of the resources, like with wfh or even flexible schedules (honestly we should aim for just working less. We humans are doing and making too many things all the time…). What do you do with so many busses and trains just 30 min after the rush hour when almost no one rides it? I’ve seen those massive parking lots where the American yellow school busses lie the 99% of the time when they’re not swarming all the roads, our current lots for busses and trains are quite big already I don’t think they can be scaled that way. And then you have drivers and other workers…
Unlike more lanes, more trains is far easier to implement, cheaper, and basically takes up no space. The extra trains can be used to swap out during maintaince and repairs. They can also be deployed during abnormal congestion such as concerts or sports events.
If our cities will let robotaxis on their streets, i see no problem with robo trains which are literally attached to rails to guide them and would be far easier to implement emergency safety features like auxiliary brakes.
It’s almost like they’re implying it needs expansion and improvements. Maybe if you read past the first sentence without waiting to be immediately outraged, you’d have caught that.
No, I’ve read the whole comment. And I think it’s wrong all of it. Of course we should build good, robust, and reliable public transport networks. But I think those shouldn’t be oversized in excess. In this case I consider much more efficient to shut down or downsize the economy, than to prepare busses and trains, and rails and roads for events that doesn’t happen that often. ‘Sorry boss, the union has put out a message that today we aren’t working.’ is what it should be.
You still just want to be outraged to be outraged. I DIDNT read past your first sentence because it’s clear that’s all you want to do. Feel free to reply, but I’ll just do the same then too.
Public transit suffers in bad weather just as much as car traffic.
Trains just end up moving slower, trees fall down on tracks. Busses are just big cars and need to drive on the same roads as the cars do.
Subways give zero shits about inclement weather.
In my city there are many stretches that run in the surface. The station I took when I was a kid gets veniced once a year or every other year when it pours and shuts the entire line or maybe just a chunk in the middle of it. It’s very much affected by the wether, maybe a bit more than roads since they always set up an auxiliary bus line to cover any shut down.
Yearly flooding is infrastructure neglect and poor design, not a flaw inherent to the subway.
When there was some ice and snow in my country, the cars and busses didn’t work. Trains were still going, so more reliable indeed.
If a job doesn’t pay well enough for snow tires it must not be that important
Snow tires make roads safer in winter but certainly aren’t nearly as safe as a train or tram on rails would be. You having snow tires also has no effect on the other motorists, whom may choose not to use snow tires.
Lol, you sound like you’ve never seen public transit in snowy conditions before. Unless you invest specifically in making that public transit resilient against snow and ice, it’ll crumble as soon as it starts snowing. Here in the Netherlands, where we have good public transit but no good snow/ice resistance it all comes to a halt when it’s snowing. Recently we’ve had a couple of days where basically the entire public transit system came to a halt. And not for extreme snow or blizzards, but for a relatively small layer of snow. It’s simply not worth it to invest all that money just to drive on those rare snowy days apparently
I get 6-8 months of winter in my area. The system should be designed to handle that snow and ice regularly from day 1.