Can someone ELI5 me what’s so special about Google’s SoCs that no other manufacturer could do (preferably citing sources not involved)?
I still find it weird that a major manufacturer would bother with a ROM.Being able to lock the bootloader with custom keys. Major OEMs do not want people to bypass their backdoors. Google signalled they will shift away from it too so Motorola is a welcome addition
That’s nice, but how much will those phones cost? Will GrapheneOS be an option on the low end devices or will they only support “some” devices, which happen cost as much as a Pixel anyway?
Hey mate, don’t need one of the Motorola’s, buy a second hand pixel, I’ve got a 6 and a 10 pro (soon to be converted to GOS now that there are stable builds since it’s my daily).
It’s a bit of a shock compared to stock android but you’ll actually feel like you own and control your phone again (like I do here on the pixel 6), but you’ll lose features like the scam block, hold for me etc. that the stock OS does).
The onus becomes on you to keep the device secure, you can do another user profile to install stuff you want separate and it works nicely. It’s all sandboxed and asks your consent before giving any permissions to an app, like android used to.
Pixels have hardware documentation and are directly supported by Android, making them possible for the GrapheneOS dev community to support. Good luck doing that on a Samsung.
Motorola is doing good here. Also, buy a used Pixel 8, you’ll have almost three years of support left.
That’s the thing, even used Pixels are almost twice the price of what I paid for my new phone.
Back when I bought my phone I considered that route. but then since I can’t replace the batteries on new phones without risking destroying the device. And there’s a big probability that the phone comes with an almost dying battery.
I also understand that GrapheneOS can’t be installed on any “unlocked” phone, it needs to be OEM unlocked and most sellers don’t know/specify, so ended up considering too expensive and too much of a risk.
I asked Motorola for an OEM unlock code for an Edge 30 Neo and got it straight away. I then installed Lineage OS 22, and the phone is working really well. The total cost is one-third of what a used Pixel 8 would cost.
Pick your poison. Want cheap? Be tracked. Want privacy? Pay the price.
“Hello Moto” (iust my first, unfiltered thought)
While the Motorola/GrapheneOS news is interesting, it’s a shame that GrapheneOS’s lack of root access continues to be a significant limitation. For users who prioritize data ownership and the ability to create full, local backups (Swift Backup being a prime example), it’s simply not a viable option. Security is important, but so is control over your own data.
Have you seen the “Shizuku” app? It utilises the debugging api to give some extra permissions that regular apps wouldn’t usually get. Works on GrapheneOS and can give SwiftBackup a lot more power on devices that can’t grant root access. You might find you don’t need full rooting.
Any non Google phone running graphene would be epic.
Motorola Mobility belongs to Chinese Lenovo but headquarters are in Chicago. Not sure if that makes it better or worse regarding privacy and surveillance compared to USA only.
I had completely forgotten Lenovo bought Motorola from Google some 10 years ago. Honestly haven’t seen a Motorola phone in at least that long …
This is great news. While I still think we should make a push towards Linux phones being mainstream so that we don’t keep this duopoly on OSes, it’s nice to know that at least one manufacturer is currently defying googles obvious goal of suppressing third party ROMs and marketplaces.
Thanks for the reality check. While this a good development, I share your concern and we should not stop,or even slow, developing any fully free as in freedom OS. I tried PostmarketOS on an old Oneplus 6T recently and I estimate we have one or two more phone replacement cycles until I think it’ll be ready for me to switch.
I have a 6T and was thinking about getting postmarketos on it, what didn’t work for you? Which “desktop” did you choose for it? there’s like 5 options for that and I really have no idea what to do.
I used KDE because that’s what I use on desktop. I hear some of the others are further along. Flashing was easy. I could not set up my SMB shares in dolphin and if it wont talk to my NAS, it’s not terribly useful to me. I will play around some more with it sooner or later. I believe I used Android- tools on Linux to send the partitions via fastboot commands. It was a 2 gen old phone for me (had the OP9 after it) so I wasn’t worried about anything going wrong. Feel free to shoot me a DM if you get stuck and have a specific question. I will try to help.
Volla phone (has choice between ubuntu touch and android rom) seems pretty cool.
I think most people here don’t really understand what’s going on here. Graphene OS is an Android mod with some extra security features designed to run on a hardened hardware. The main goal of Graphene OS is to protect users from some very specific attacks like some devices police uses to unlock phones or some targeted hacks by state actors. Unless you’re worried you may be targeted by such an attack and have some date you need to protect from them you don’t really need Graphene OS. You can run any of the other deGoogles Android mods on any hardware that supports it. You can already buy phones with pre-installed /e/ of iode ROMs. Many other phones support Lineage OS. Also, let’s keep in mind that GrapheneOS only supports Pixel because they don’t want to allow people to run their OS on hardware they don’t think is secure enough. It’s their choice not to support other phones.
Also, Google still controls AOSP so this does not solve any of the bigger Android issues. Motorola forking AOSP and providing the resourced needed to keep the development going would be amazing news. This is just one phone maker promising to fulfill the security requirements of Graphene OS. It’s basically like Dell offering Ubuntu laptops. Good news but it will not have a big impact on the ecosystem.
This is nonsense. Everyone needs the most secure phone possible, especially considering it’s the only device some people will ever own. None of the other de-Googled offerings come close to the security features that Graphene offers, some of which are custom built solutions. They go above and beyond what the typical ROM does, which is why it even supports a lot of banking apps that would normally be blocked.
There’s a good reason people talk about GrapheneOS a lot lately, and not any of the many alternative Android ROMs that exist.
Also, let’s keep in mind that GrapheneOS only supports Pixel because they don’t want to allow people to run their OS on hardware they don’t think is secure enough
Obviously. That’s the point: Graphene isn’t just any de-Googled ROM, it’s specifically a product designed for security-conscious users. If someone doesn’t care about security and just wants to dick around on an old Android device, they can use one of the many toy ROMs out there (like iodé)
The main goal of Graphene OS is to protect users from some very specific attacks like some devices police uses to unlock phones or some targeted hacks by state actors.
That’s simply not true. It does do those things, but that’s not “the main goal”. Not sure where you got that from?
This is nonsense. Everyone needs the most secure phone possible,
This is nonsense. GrapheneOS is like 0.00001% of the market. Almost everyone in the world manages to survive just fine “dicking around on an old Android”. Only people that can be targeted by state actors really need GrapheneOS. Most people when forced to choose between unlocking their phones or being denied entry to a country, being stopped from boarding a plane or simply spending some time in jail will quickly unlock the phone and hand it over to police. Having extra secure OS is meaningless to them.
I understand you have some sensitive data on your phone and you would rather be detained than unlock it and that’s fine. Graphene OS is for you. I’m sure you’re already using it on a Pixel device. Motorola will offer you more options but that’s it. Not much will change.
Nice try officer.
If you’re worried about police getting your data you’re already using GrapheneOS on a Pixel device. This is good news for you because you will have more options when changing phones in the future but not really a game changer in any way.
It’s not just degoogling is the reason for using grapheneos. There are many other user friendly controls. For instance, you block apps from network use, so your click farming game doesn’t track everything about you.
iode has a build in app that let’s you automatically block trackers for each app. You can manage internet connection and allow specific trackers separately for each app. I think internet access is a basic Android permission, any ROM can just block internet access for apps. I’ve used iode before, I’m using Graphene OS now. If restoring all the apps wasn’t such a pain in the ass I would go back to iode. It also had a nice ‘long press’ navigation button shortcut feature, pattern unlock for the lockscreen and automated backups to self hosted ownCloud instance. Graphene OS is good but it’s not a game changer.
Reproducible builds and lack of telemetry, plus hardening against compromise (by any actors) is my personal use case. I only run free/libre infrastructure privately, and hope to move on to open/libre hardware in future.
But how is that significantly more secure than LineageOS? I have read through countless blog posts from GrapheneOS developers and have not yet encountered an explanation that is sufficiently convincing. Outside of additional security hardening, which is definitely a big pro, GrapheneOS doesn’t have many things that LineageOS doesn’t. LineageOS is fully FOSS and telemetry-free. They introduced the “Trust” control panel for managing all sorts of privacy and security matters. They have PIN scramble.
The only major, obvious security vulnerability lies in the proprietary driver blobs from the device vendors / OEMs. But AFAIK Google Pixels also have those, right? So outside of doubtlessly valuable measures like restricting malicious reprogramming / access through the USB port, in what ways is GrapheneOS actually more secure than LineageOS?
in what ways is GrapheneOS actually more secure than LineageOS?
In many ways. This document provides a detailed overview of Graphene’s unique features, and is worth a skim even if you’re unfamiliar with some of the jargon.
My very reductive summary is that Lineage is primarily focused on reviving and bringing modern features to old devices, whereas Graphene is focused on hardening the security of AOSP as much as possible.
Both are de-Googled. Lineage is good for e-waste prevention, but not security. You will never be able to secure a device that can’t receive kernel updates because the OEM abandoned it, and “state actors” are certainly not the only people who can exploit those vulnerabilities.
Yes. Controlling telemetry data transmission is why I run GrapheneOS.
If you live in the united states, then you DO need protection against police and state attacks.
I never said you don’t. I’m saying that if you DO need it you should be running GrapheneOS on a Pixel already. If you can wait a year or two until this phone comes out it’s clearly not a “must have” for you.
Fair point. I really do wish it were more than “Pixel, or MotorolaSoonTM” for hardware choices. Who knows, though. Maybe other manufacturers will join the party.
maybe my next phone will be a Motorola.
My last few phones have been Motorolas and I’ve been very very happy with them.
My only issue was that back then, I wasn’t really paying attention to alternative OSs like Graphene, Lineage or e/os and was therefore not really too concerned with ROM support/chip set. When I switched over to e/os, two of my Motorola’s (including the one I WANT to use with it) has no ROM support because it’s running a Mediatek chipset. So I’m using my second to last one while my nice new one collects dust.
Moving forward I’ll be paying more attention to Qualcomm vs Mediatek.
yeah i might focus on Android phones that have Good ROM/ support
i think their graphene OS powered phone will have bootloader unlocking.i hope Google does not take away Sideloading. (but i think graphene returns it)
Me too. I’ve always bought Google Pixels but I don’t want to give Google my money anymore.
So I’ll probably buy a Motorola if this deal gets through.
Me too. I’ve always bought Google Pixels but I don’t want to give Google my money anymore.
what about used?
What phone do you use now?
deleted by creator
I’m on a Google Pixel 9A.
But at least I didn’t pay for it, Google paid me, thanks to a clever mix of a big 9A launch discount, a trade-in discount and the fact that the older Pixel I traded in had already been partially refunded because of the infamous battery problems.
i bought a mororolla 3 years ago and it still lasts 2 days on a charge. id say go for it.
i gotta see first if Motorola/Lenovo will actually ship graphene OS and other factors.
they dont sound like bad phones and even better with this collab
They spotted an opportunity
Good. Now if only they could make the Edge+ with the same relative spec sheet and ditch the curved glass in 2027. I’d buy it in a heartbeat for Graphene. My next phone WAS going to be a Pixel for the broader case/screen protector support, but that would make me reconsider cause I would really miss the chop chop flashlight.
Chop chop flashlight?
Motorola phones have a feature that allows you to “chop” with your phone twice to turn on/off the flashlight. It sounds super mundane, but it is way more convenient than you can imagine. Especially for me as an athletic trainer when I’m testing pupil response during a concussion evaluation. They also allow you to twist your phone twice to open the camera, but I don’t find that as convenient since double tapping the lock button also works.
That’s pretty cool. Did you ever find it activating accidentally?
No. You have to be pretty deliberate about it. Honestly, its pretty impressive how well tuned it is.
Now I need to try it somehow
Just tried it on my razr, had no idea it was a thing but that’s not surprising given I don’t really set up accessibility features on my phones. You do have to be quite forceful with it, kind of whipping it back once at the end of a swing. Neat.
If I can get GrapheneOS + headphone jack + SD card slot, I am in.
I’d really like a removable battery as well.
I’d add “less than 15cm tall” too. I’ve had enough of stupid giant phones that don’t fit in pockets and where you can’t even reach the top or other side with your thumb.
That would be like a dream come true. I’m about to become excluded from mobile technology as my phone seems to be starting to present hardware failures, and I can’t stand to use large ones.
SD slot would be great. Fuck every major company getting rid of it, so you have to use their cloud provider.
I didn’t even realise “no SD card” was an option. That’s shitty and awful.
+1 for the headphone jack
Well, fuck. I really hoped they would pick FairPhone. Motorola is… Okay. I guess they made the Nexus 5 ; which was one of the best phones ever.
I hope they make a SMALL one, I am so tired of this GIGANTIC pixel 9.
Fairphone isn’t available everywhere while Motorola is. It’s pretty easy to understand why they chose them.
That’s not the reason, the real reason is Fairphone doesn’t take security seriously. The GrapheneOS devs have called them out numerous times on that.
Also a good reason but you can’t get Fairphones in North America which is a huge market.
But if they partnered with GrapheneOS, there could have been a concerted effort to remedy that.
Depends on if Fairphone wants to take security ‘seriously’ by Graphene OS opinion.
I don’t know the details of these specific folks, but sometimes a security team can be wholly unreasonable and advocate for breaking useful capabilities. E.g. there are some security folks that would say the entire possibility of unlocked bootloader is an unforgiveable security no-no. They can even argue with each other, I know a security team that says password managers are a no-no and humans should remember every credential that they would have otherwise put in a password manager, while most security folks would agree a password manager is totally worth it for using randomized passwords.
So I tend to reserve judgement on disagreements between a ‘security authority’ until I hear nuance of specifics on both sides. I could easily believe GrapheneOS wants some things that are fundamentally at odds with what Fairphone wants rather than just Fairphone being sloppy about it or something.
An unlocked bootloader that can’t be relocked IS a major no no since in that case it’s impossible to verify the integrity of the operating system and prevent malware from loading during boot up.
Who haven’t the gosdevs called out? Not even OpenBSD are as callous and their work is rock solid.
Motorola gets a little bit of love from me because they were (maybe still are?) the only ones who allowed me to shout “COMRADE MOTO!” to wake my phone up
I will not say “Hey Google” in a million years. I refuse.
SOVIET ANTHEM PLAYS IN THE BACKGROUND
That’s definitely worth a fair few points. Always rubbed me the wrong way that you couldn’t change it to whatever you wanted.
Actually LG made the Nexus 5, Moto did the Nexus 6, developed while Google owned Motorola and released a few weeks after Lenovo bought them.
Depending on your definition of ‘small’, your only hope might be if they did Razr and you used it folded up. That’s credibly small, though I don’t know if Graphene would be game for bothering to do that sort of multiple display work.
I think LG made the Nexus 5, though.
W Moto ❤️🩹
My biggest concern is the life cycle of the device. I almost went with Motorola for my last phone, but saw that you were lucky to get 3 years of OS updates. Is that likely to be better on GrapheneOS? If so, that is a huge win imo. If not, it still isn’t ideal because I don’t want to have to buy a new phone every 2 years…
GrapheneOS was claiming 5-year support IIRC. Apple level support is infeasible. Not sure how affordable longer firmware support from Qualcomm is.
Thats the trick, when a company supports romming, you can extend the support for however long you want!
But gos dropped support for pre-6 Pixels so not quite.
Never had graphene, but been using Lineage since it was called CyanogenMod on my Galaxy Nexus
Why do you think they are $300-500? I don’t care about “only” 3 years of updates if i don’t have to spend $1300 on a friggin cellphone.
I mean, I sort of get what you are saying but it also feels a little like Grimes’s boots thing from Terry Pratchet. Like, I can spend $200- $300 and get a phone that will stop getting security updates in 2-3 years… Or I can spend $700-$1000 to get a phone that comes with 7-10 years of security updates. Money per year, you are the same or better off if you can afford the up-front cost of the more expensive product, and we are generating a lot less techno-garbage clogging up the planet.
Generally, I hate the hard limit of use of these things. Coming from desktop computers, if you spend more money the machine is faster, but if you don’t need the speed you can use the cheap machine just as long (or longer if you really don’t need performance). All phones feel like they are just a subscription model.
Upvoted for Sam Vimes reference!
Reading the original press release might be a good Start
Their Thinkphones pretty much always had good update policy
Almost like you cant really sell a 100€ device and expect it to be optimised like a mid range
but saw that you were lucky to get 3 years of OS updates.
fucking great, less enshittification when they stop shoving the updates down your throat.
Yea, except you aren’t getting security updates either… Basically anything connected to the internet should be getting security updates…
I remember my original Moto G. It was a good phone for the time. I will follow Graphene wherever they go until a Linux phone is ready.
Hello Moto!
SailfishOS runs in Jolla phones (linux) and PostmarketOS is doing strides.
Unfortunately, SailfishOS is not FOSS, and FOSS must be the basis of all trust, or else you have no idea to tell what kind of software (spyware) the vendor is operating on your phone. At least Jolla is starting to open-source some traditionally proprietary components.
I looked at their latest phone on their website. The specs look better than some of the other Linux manufacturers. They finally ditched the 720p display that was holding back the Pine, Jolla, and similar Linux devices for an FHD panel. I appreciate that they are differentiating on user-benefitting hardware features like swappable batteries, SD cards, and headphone jacks seems like a smart strategy as these are things mainstream manufacturers largely refuse to implement but are popular among a good chunk of users. Sure, there will be a mainstream phone with a brighter screen, faster processor, better “features”, but it looks like the hardware is finally on par with the rest of the market. I’m really happy to see this!
I actually bought a new Motorola phone 2 months ago precisely because i wanted a phone with an unlockable bootloader, and motorola delivered that.
Vote with your wallet.
Just wanted to echo the vote with your wallet sentiment. It’s the only power we have!
I once bought a Motorola one phone because it would have quick and lengthy updates. Motorola certainly didn’t provide that.
Other than that it was a decent phone.I have used Motorola for the last 5 years or so. They had superior battery life compared to the others and were inexpensive. I bought my last one for like 40 bucks on clearance. I won’t spend more than 100 bucks plus tax on a phone anymore. I use minimal apps, don’t take lots of pictures with it, mostly text and make phone calls on it. I don’t keep social media apps on it nor restaurant apps. I mostly use the Maps, the Notes, and the browser applications. I don’t like the android/google calendar interface but will use reminders/tasks. I also use book/reading/podcast apps (Librivox, Podbean, Kindle, and another one…). I had overly invested in Kindle years ago unfortunately. I don’t really watch video on the phone as it is too small, but have YT music on it. I could use advice for alternatives that are better.
