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You know whose hurt by high prices? Poor people. Guess whose not hurt by them? Rich people.
I’m hoping some of the poor people start to realize how dependent they are on gas though. They’ve been too comfortable with subsidized gas for too long, with us taxpayers all paying to lower gas prices artificially. It’s time they notice and start thinking that maybe it’s time to think about carpooling or buying smaller cars.
A lot of people in the US still have states that don’t allow mail-in voting, and can’t get off work to vote. Those people are poor.
A lot of poor people voted against this. Didn’t matter- they still got it.
They’re going to suffer heavily. We can all try to do what we can to reduce the use of fossil fuels, but consumers have not had enough power to do anything meaningful at any point in my lifetime.
Rich people will still technically be affected, but yeah they aren’t going to go hungry.
You know who could hurt rich people? Poor people.
Sure there are infinitely more people who suffer from this than people who benefit.
But people have a limited amount of energy to do things or even think. I believe with people who actually have to work for a living, most of the energy goes towards immediate necessities: the daily tasks, working, getting food on the table, paying bills etc. A huge amount of energy and even time is consumed by stress alone that results from living like this. The tiny amount of energy and time people have for passions and socialising are probably spent on those or resting, or just escapism.
How can people living and feeling like this actually change things ? I’d assume massive systemic change needs consistent mass movements.
People would need to have time and energy to think and act. We’d also need willingness to do those things. It feels like not thinking and not acting consumes less energy and time, and therefore is the more likely choice.
If it is possible to change things for the better for the vast majority of people, why aren’t they changing ?
Things aren’t bad enough yet. Watching the political scene for the past 10 years has been like a frog slowly acclimating itself to a boiling pot of water that eventually kills it.
Also, power IS power. Do you find yourself wondering why North Koreans put up with their Dear Leader? Or how the USSR was able to control half of Germany, along with Ukraine, Belarus and a dozen other nations?
You’ve been taught that in America, power resides with the people. But it never did. Power always follows the money. Those who own property have the power. It’s always been this way, a struggle against all the greedy, power-hungry fucks who can’t get enough.
You know who hurt people? Hurt people.
The cycle doesn’t end unless you end it. Eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
You know who hurts people? Greedy rich people. It seemed fitting when they dragged Mussolini through the streets.
That’s what they tell you. Funny, though, that nothing changes - for better or worse - until the threat of violence enters the picture.
Slavery wasn’t ended until the nation was ready for civil war.
Global fascism wasn’t stopped until the Nazis were slaughtered.
Peaceful protests are worthless on a small scale, in terms of affecting change. BLM protests, 1% protests, pro-choice protests - all are great for showing unity among your “tribe”, but they don’t directly change anything.
That’s why Trump is cracking down with ICE and weaponizing the DOJ. That’s why we see headlines like “Six Antifa protesters convicted of terroristic threats”. Keep the protests small, keep the average Joe scared of taking to the streets, stoke the fear of violence erupting and legal entanglements.
until the threat of violence enters the picture
Isn’t that one of the key definitions of fascism?
It’s a key tenant of several social conflict theories.
I’m no expert, but the way I understand it, many early sociologists focused on the systems and structures of society. They emphasized the order and structure of “civilized” societies, usually with a bias toward European societies.
Then people like Marx and Weber came along and proposed that these societies were not “civilized”, but rather oppressive. They pointed to class struggles and oligarchs. Other sociologists began to highlight the struggles of marginalized groups like women and people of color. They followed the money and power.
SO, as an example, we use a landlord and his tenant. We could describe the relationship as mutually beneficial. The tenant needed a roof over his head, the landlord provided one. The system functions as intended, benefiting both parties. But we might look deeper and see that housing prices are inflated. The tenant can’t afford a house, but the landlord owns 20 properties. The tenant wants to own property, but he’s shut out. The system is still functioning as intended, but the intention is to make the rich person more money and keep the poor person oppressed.
Obviously, there’s no hard and fast rules. There’s no final answer.
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Me: 🤔this could at least trigger uprising of working class… Me, after 30s more thinking: 😪well, I thought so as well, as I learned that trumpet got elected…
I think people moving to EVs is great, but if you absolutely need to get a car, the more economical and environmentally friendly option is to purchase a second hand vehicle regardless if it’s electric or petrol based. Everyone suddenly switching to an EV would cause a catastrophic amount of waste to accrue. Second hand evs are also more expensive than second hand petrol cars AND are more likely to have problems. EV adoption will be gradual, but punishing the struggling working class for daring to use what they can afford AND not throwing working vehicles into the trash is pretty ignorant in my opinion.
Have any data to back up second hand EVs being less reliable than second hand gas cars? Everything I’ve personally experienced is that as long as the battery is liquid cooled, they’re practically maintenance free.
I don’t have any data on me to be honest, most of what I hear is based on people I know purchasing second hand EVs, and from what I know of EVs. They suffer from battery degradation which right now is an expensive swap, and charger compatibility is heavily dependent on infrastructure that takes forever to roll out where I am. Internal combustion engines will run great even after 150,000 kms, whereas conventional electric cars and even hybrids show degradation at 80,000 on a few models.
Newer EVs likely have less of these problems, but when I talk of purchasing second hand, I’m talking cars that are 10+ years old.
The older models didn’t manage the temperature at all. Those batteries have been abused in hot and cold weather, which makes them die super fast. There are basically only two months every year when you can safely drive an EV like that. All the other days are more or less ideal for murdering that battery.
That makes sense. 10+ years ago many models didn’t liquid cool the battery which is what lead to the degradation. Anything in the last 5 years on the used market is much more likely to have no issues.
That’s good to know, that means in the next 5 years, EVs will be as practical to purchase (used) as ICE cars are.
We will be facing extinction by the end of the century if we don’t stop putting greenhouse gases into the stratosphere today.
Bring it, my preferred ride is a bicycle. I am usually bummed when I have to drive even though I have a fun car with manual and AWD.
Ditto on the manual with AWD. But I haven’t been able to cycle at all in the last 20 years.
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Does everything else you buy get delivered to the shops by cargo bike?
You may not pay for it at the pump, but I guarantee you’re still paying.
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You’re confusing what is for what could be. And that “could be” could be implemented quite rapidly in an emergency situation.
Pretty stupid take really.
Fuel isn’t just for people to put in their cars and drive to the shops.
Not to mention the US can and will dig deeper into its vast reserves to help keep prices down. Or worse yet, this could encourage more domestic drilling.
Oil is one of those “have to have” things for most people. Fixed demand + reduced supply = pure profit for those who sell it, and that’s about it. And not even a productive kind; it’s kinda a wealth transfer without any actual change in what’s being traded.
Agree with this one! More people being thoughtful about their mode of transportation is a positive aspect
I’ve been thoughtful for years about how there are no options but cars where I live
EVs of course, biking, carpooling, vanpooling, buying smaller cars, walking, all options that can still be done in a car centric location.
I agree. We need every bit of war against fossil fuels, even if we burn with them!
If there’s one thing I’ve come to the hard conclusion of in the last couple months it’s this. People don’t change shit and will put up with a lot of bullshit until it seriously negatively impacts their quality of life. How does that take shape in capitalism? Everything is fucking expensive. Then things start to change for the better. There is no room for another bailout, the government is bankrupt, it’s debt from wall to wall. The change is happening, AI is like crack cocaine for the demise of capitalism.
this is basically accelerationism, and I think it would make a lot more sense if major decisions were mostly made by consumers … but that’s unfortunately not how most decisions are made
you can’t ignore the structure and function of power in society - you’re just engaging in victim blaming because of your ignorance of how society is actually molded and influenced
“… When oil prices go up, we make a lot of money.” -The Guy, who OP obviously is.
Nope, just an EV owner tired of breathing in diesel fumes.
Oil prices affects more than just people driving their car
Even better. Time to start building nuclear power plants (ideally thorium based) and implement batteries and solar power wherever possible. If oil becomes more expensive, then the alternatives become more viable. Something needs to change.
The problem is Oil is bad but just you start using EV cause all other essential things come via transport methods which use Oil, so the price there increases a hell lot which affects everyone.
Consumerism…. My family is the same as every other, with SO MUCH CRAP that our house is fucking full. My wife likes to shop but I’m always the “where are we going to put that” police. Buying less crap won’t kill most Americans.
Why?
Because of climate change and my hatred of breathing in diesel fumes when a truck passes by. I want to see more efficient electric vehicles. With gas prices high the alternative becomes more viable, and it exposes how volatile fossil fuels are.
I agree, but expecting change in the next 6 months, maybe up to five years, is unrealistic, particularly under a government that actively encourages the use of fossil fuels.
But it can be a waking call for many people that didn’t though about changing to EV and solar panels.
I can buy so much diesel for the price of an EV. Those are completely out of my price range and higer fuel prices aren’t going to change that.
While I don’t know your use case or required vehicle type, there are many EV’s around $35K and tons on the used market for way less. There are tons of things to calculate but assuming a diesel vehicle is driven about 10K miles a year, you’ll spend around $2K/year on that, yea? Every year you own the vehicle you can deduct that from the purchase price to get the Net Present Value of the vehicle as home-charging rates are negligible at around maybe $100 a year. If you own it for 5 years, that vehicle could be considered to have cost you roughly $25K, net. 10 years would be $15K net. Then there’s the lower maintenance cost on EV’s to consider, as well. In the long term, EV’s aren’t as expensive as people think but you have to have the funds to cover the high purchase price at the start and plan to own the vehicle for a long time. As gas prices rise, these calculations only improve for EV’s and worsen for gas-powered vehicles. A helpful metric to use is that gas vehicles cost about $0.30/mile to run and EV’s, when charged at home, cost about $0.03/mile.
35k is a completely outrageous price to pay for a vehicle. That covers my fuel for 17 years, but it wouldn’t even buy me an equivalent EV. Those are up from 50k used.
I don’t have anything against EVs on principle. I just can’t afford one - whereas I could total my work truck tomorrow and just buy a new (used) one. Or five.
There’s about 8k between the cheapest EV and the cheapest gas car. Whatever difference is overshadowed by the cost of gas.
You are looking for reasons.
Today I have made the calc. With 1€ of electricity (at home) I can drive 75km. That 1€ gives me today half a liter of gasoline.
EVs are already cheaper than ICE vehicles. You pay a bit more up front, but you save long term of gas and maintenance.
Diesel vehicles are the same price range as electric vehicles if not more expensive. The cost of ownership on diesels is way way more than an EV.
That’s hilarious. I’m not even getting a handshake at the local EV dealership for the price that I paid for my 17 year old work truck with 300k km on it. The cheapest used EV pickup truck for sale here currently is 25k€ and is completely unfit for what I need it for and the size of those American monster trucks - no thanks.
The amount of money you would have to spend to keep a diesel on the road for 300k is more than the cost of a new EV.
If we don’t stop putting greenhouse gasses into the stratosphere today then we will be extinct by the end of the century.
Its not just america paying more for oil. Countries world wide will experience this and future volatility. It could be a tipping point for some to take alternative energy and transportation more seriously.
You can throw up a bike lane in a few hours with nothing but a few traffic cones. This isn’t something that takes years to implement if there’s actually political will to do so.
This situation is making oil more profitable for the other countries that produce it. Coincidentally, that includes the USA who started this mess, and who also kidnapped the leader of another oil producing country a couple months ago.
Climate change is a producer problem, and this price increase only hurts consumers.
Not a lot of massive cargo ships are gonna stop using bunker fuel in favour of turning electric. And that’s just one example.
Well, we’re either going to have to find a way, or we’re all dead. So maybe higher gas prices are a small price to pay for the literal salvation of the species.
It will happen over time, especially with higher oil prices.
Thankfully I can drive on E85 so I’m not that affected by the price hike. I would love to switch to electric. But can’t afford it. Maybe when the cars come down do 20-30k, then I could start thinking about it
Look at the used market! Plenty of EV’s in that price range. For instance: https://www.cars.com/vehicle/153a974c-1ea1-4a76-892e-31032334d488/
All the research and real world usage has shown that EV’s generally last well over 100K miles so you’ll get a lot of usage out of a used EV.
Bought mine for £17k 6 years ago. Don’t buy off the forecourt.
I’m hoping for $200 a barrel
I think over $100 is enough to force people to pay attention.
so everything can be more expensive! and the working poor can just die, amiright?
Working people need to wake tf up to what is happening. They’ve been too comfortable to notice. Gas is a non thought in most of america, something you have to buy. They need to realize how utterly dependent they are on it.
My home town end to end was about five miles. Most people worked in town, and most people drove. Most of them could stand to learn that biking isn’t so bad.
Do you have any other plan for preventing the literal extinction of the human race at the hands of runaway climate change?
I’m with you. We must switch away from fossil fuels, it’s more important than anything. Every little bit helps. If we don’t, we’re boiling ourselves alive on the only planet we have. Think about agriculture fucked up globally, climate shocks, extreme weather, biodiversity collapse, the cost of that is orders of magnitude higher
Respect, climate change is something that capitalism is shit at measuring, so the best we can hope for is that the dirty behaviors that damage our environment become very expensive.
We’ve got oil heating, as we live in an old house in rural Scotland. A tank of oil cost £1100 last month and would last about 5 months. It’s now nearly 3 times that. If it doesn’t go down again I won’t be able to afford to heat our house.
