- cross-posted to:
- android@lemdro.id
- cross-posted to:
- android@lemdro.id
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For those who haven’t seen this excellent video:
It’s not that “excellent.” It’s just ‘for the evulz’ mustache-twirling comical villainy, which ends up downplaying what’s actually important to know about enshittification, which is how self-serving and abusive it is. When companies enshittify products and services, they’re not just making them worse; they’re specifically making them more exploitative.
A lot of the examples shown in the video – cutting holes in socks, sawing off a chair leg so it wobbles, drying out a marker, etc. – are not enshittification. Enshittification is stuff like putting spyware in devices so that you double-dip on the purchase price and the value of the data, or turning products (as opposed to services) into a subscription. Stuff that extracts unearned value from the customer.
It touches on it in the latter part of the video, but for the most part misses the mark.
You know, it was funny. Bit long in the tooth. The best thing about the video, it was actually produced by Norway. The government produced the video. That’s pretty freaking cool.
Yeah it was a short PSA for average people, not power users. If it wasn’t funny a lot of people lose interest. It only spends the first 25% on the unrelated comedy bit. And the real point is to get people to the site at the end to learn more.
Upon further reflection, I think my previous comment may have been a little too harsh on it.
But I still think that, to be truly “excellent,” it could’ve made its point without muddying/confusing the definition of enshittification.
Yeah excellent might have been a little too much praise, but I haven’t seen any other public PSAs trying to point out to people what’s happening to online services and doing a decent job of it
To me, this picture is still a meme in the making. Reminds me of Heartbreaking guy
̶S̶̶i̶̶d̶̶e̶̶l̶̶o̶̶a̶̶d̶̶i̶̶n̶̶g̶ Installing
Yeah, but installing from the Play Store is also installing, and “sideloading” is shorter than “installing from outside the Play store”, so I’m not sure this is a winnable fight.
It’s installing regardless from where you get the app, by labeling it as sideloading these giant corpos want to label it as doing something outside the norm, something that is “unsafe” so they can have control over user behavior and market dominance
Yes that’s what I’m saying, it’s “installing” regardless of where you get the app, so if an article wants to talk about something concerning installing apps from outside the Play Store, they can’t just say “installing”. That would be incorrect if the things they talk about don’t concern installing from the Play Store.
So you need a different description than just “installing”.
E.g. in this example the article title couldn’t be “installing changes are next”, it would need to be something else.
“Installing” is not a drop-in replacement for “sideloading” without changing the meaning of what you say.
I’ve had the play store install, remove, and modify installed applications without so much as a hint they were doing it, the “Play Store” does what would be considered “sideloading” applications (i. e. a third party app managing your applications from a location other than the package manager), feeding an apk to a package manager would just be “installing” an application like it always has been.
By co-opting the term to be something bad, they are trying to make it seem like they are the only safe source for applications (even though the Google-managed stores have just as much malware as WinMX did 20+ years ago).
Correct, but what do you propose? In your terminology installing from the Play Store is “sideloading” and installing directly is “installing”. But surely you agree that if an article was titled “Google makes installing apps on Android harder, but sideloading will be as smooth as before”, everyone would understand the opposite of that.
I would personally like to just go back to calling it installing, but I doubt that is even less likely than getting back “-lications” to my programs (just a dumb joke about how applications slowly became apps).
Its all good though, I’m just an old man bitching on the internet.
Installing from other app stores. Installing, but not from the Play Store. Installing from not-Google-controlled stores.
It’s installing. Context can be given using this wonderful semantic device called “subordinate clauses”.
Yeah exactly, and we reached all the way back to my original comment: you can’t just replace “sideloading” with “installing”, without adding additional clarification.
“I installed from apt get, and then I sideloaded from flatpak, and sideloaded from a .deb file”? Or “installed from the windows store but sideloaded from an .exe file” (literally everything I ever installed was through .exe/.msi on windows)
?!?!?
all of which is entirely possible on a phone (Linux containers and WINE), which makes the term “sideloading” even dumber
I’d just call all of that “installing”, “sideloading” doesn’t really make sense here. Importantly you already specified how you installed in each case, so it’s perfectly understandable whatever verb you use.
It’s well worth the minimum amount of extra typing and reading to say “installing from outside the Play Store” to push back against the idea of the locked down CorpoPhone being the default… or the norm… or the legal requirement.
It’s a small push back commensurate with the small amount of effort, but it’s a subject worthy of the attention.
It is, but sadly I don’t think Android Authority and other publications will be convinced. We should still try though.
There’s a lot of other cool terms we could use. Indy apps, homebrews, anything that makes you think of a farmer’s market…
Also, we might just push for the narrative that anthing not sideloaded is wrong… Why are people using spoonfed apps anyways? Aren’t we grownups?
Edit: auto-complete typos
I like your ideas, they would be a better replacement than just “installing”.
I don’t install apps, I adopt craft softwares coded with care! 🧑🌾
Great. So half my software won’t work.
Google, just call it what it is. Ad blocking prevention.
This is in no way a justification for what Google is doing, but they came to a “compromise” where you can still opt-in to being allowed to “sideload unverified apps” (read: install apps that didn’t have to get approval from Google).
You have to enable it in the settings, and then you need to wait 24 hours before the setting is enabled. After that you can continue to run “unverified” apps
What I haven’t seen is what happens to all of the apps I currently have installed when this hits.
Am I going to have to wait 24 hours to open apps I already have installed?
Will they all get auto-removed and need reinstalling?
Everything is written as if you’re starting from new not an existing state.
What happens if I just stop updating android for as long as I can? Quite a few apps on my phone have retained functionality past when their developers attempted to brick them because I froze updates
My Samsung S22 let me pause updates anymore. And it nags me to death.
My workaround is to start downloading the update and then pausing it.
RIP, that’s cancer. Yeah samsung has lost its fucking mind. I wish I had been considering the availability of 3rd party roms when I chose my model
you can probably disable the updater through adb.
This is all managed via Play services not the android OS so you’d need to not update the core services.
Got that one froze too 🤞 pray for me holding out in the woods on this shit like the unabomber
There is a way to not update play services? They do their shit in automatic on my phone
It’s under settings > Security Privacy. You might need dev mode turned on
google services update themselves separately
google services update themselves separately
Haven’t seen anything official but I’d assume they will behave as normal and you may not be able to update them without going through the advanced flow. Since ADB installs aren’t restricted I don’t think there will be any changes to existing installs. Just my thoughts based on what they have confirmed so far. I am just waiting for GOS to support the Pixel 10a so I can get further away from Google and their BS in general.
FYI, there’s an experimental build available, if you can’t wait.
Thanks, I’m aware but this is already my daily driver because my old phone was dying so I can’t make the jump until it is stable.
That’s my hope, would be nice of they actually confirmed it.
With their story being “for security” I could see them trying to do a purge.
24hrs is a one time system flag for can install unverified apps or not, so it shouldn’t affect existing stuff.
The “advanced flow” with a one-day wait is just Google realizing they need to boil this frog a little more slowly to prevent a backlash. They still want a fully boiled frog in the end.
it wont remain at that. i bet they will disable that setting occasionally and make you wait that 24h again and again.
Xiaomi bootloaders used to work like that. You’d have to jump through some bullshit hoops to register your phone for bootloader unlocking, and then wait a few days to finally be able to unlock it. Then they made that worse and worse, and afaik it’s so insanely difficult and inconvenient right now that it’s practically impossible to unlock your Xiaomi phone’s bootloader. This applies to all the brands under that umbrella.
I am about 97.37% sure Google will do the same over time and at some point you just won’t be able to install any APKs.
Even google’s “verified apps” are full of spyware, backdoors, and telemetry. They’re so fucking hypocritical. Like an abuser who says “You can’t make it in this world without me!”
Also, is this going to effect third-party ROMs like Lineage and its offshoots?
AFAIK, this is only Android, not AOSP that third-party devs would be using for their ROMs - and AOSP can be forked as well, so there’s no reason that Lineage can’t cut that part out if it did make it into AOSP.
Good to know!
For now at least, google will likely remove that option in the future.
Ummm… Isn’t this precisely against the whole EU’s make sideloading (ie. installing) as easy as main app store installing thing?
Taking steps backwards…It took years and legal pressure and fines to have other app stores decently recognized and allowed. I don’t understand how we are going so back. I mean I understand. Capitalism + monopoly + orange guy.
I doubt it. EU regulations demand all manner of documentation, including who supplied software. Tech companies should also protect users and enforce “our” laws, which means a lot of surveillance.
App stores already have to do developer verification, under the celebrated DMA.
There’s a pro-business loophole meant to keep bureaucracy low. Very small companies are exempted. It’s kind of ironic, because Lemmy usually hates this kind of pro-business anti-regulation thing. To be fair, using this loophole to shield devs, as F-Droid wants, is an abuse. It’s only meant to allow small companies to grow until they have the resources to handle the verification.
It’s only meant to allow small companies to grow until they have the resources to handle the verification.
Most projects served by F-Droid are not backed by companies. Then they are righfully exempted from the DMA, it’s not a “loophole”.
You misunderstand. They are not exempt at all. F-Droid is exempt from collecting their identities.
And that’s why I’m installing /e/OS in my Fairphone 6, and shifting to Linux based phones.
Even now Google is removing everything that is a choice to avoid their massive surveillance machine, apps started complaining about removal of UnifiedPush:
Fuck Google.
That’s actually a known bug in Fennec, nothing to do with Google
FF6 with eOS is awesome! For the first time in a very long time, I feel like I actually own the device! Very liberating.
Welcome friend! I’ve been having a great time with e/os on my FP6.
I recommend the lawnchair launcher if you don’t like the stock one.
Yes lawnchair is a must have with e/os. I like what /e/os is pushing for but im puzzled on why they did this horrendous launcher and the way they change stock android look.
Do
noevil.Don’t forget their ongoing war on ad blocking. I’ll miss NewPipe so much.
NewPipe, PipePipe, Grayjay, brave mobile
One of them generally works.
The latest NewPipe is working for me right now. It only ever dies for a few days.
It’s working, yeah, but it’s
sideloadedinstalled outside of a washed garden, so it’ll soon be uninstallable.The inevitable end is when they bake the commercials into the stream, take away the skip buttons and ban accounts for timeskipping over commercials through other detectable means.
The inevitable counter is we screencap youtubers, feed it through comskip, and produce commercial-free content and torrent it.
I’ve been using NewPipe without problems. Is it supposed to have gone away?
Mine insists I’m a bot and requests I sign in.
Other times it works occasionally.
Like rolling dice.
Try some methods to change your IP.
future tense, they even posted about it, jfc
You can try Futo’s Grayjay. Always updating its YT plugin when Google breaks it.
Pipepipe works fine
I’m on an FP6 with iodéOS, very smooth so far, and apparently security is better than with /e/OS.
I had to manually flash it though.
deleted by creator
Some people value freedom more than convenience
It sadly doesn’t change the fact that those phones barely exists and the few that does are either incredibly old or only very partially supported.
And we may be fine with that
I have a Jolla C2 with SailfishOS, it has Android app support based on AlienDalvik, and my banking app runs just fine there. I can use Nextcloud, etc. For my needs it runs great.
Been using them for a hot minute, been rocking one flavor of the Linux kernel on my phone since the release of the Motorola Droid back in like 2009-2010.
Alternatives
Fairphone https://shop.fairphone.com/the-fairphone-gen-6-e-operating-system
GrapheneOS https://grapheneos.org/
Sailfish OS https://sailfishos.org/
LibrePhone from GNU/Linux https://librephone.fsf.org/
To be fair, LibrePhone isn’t an alternative because its just an announcement of a project. There is nothing viable yet from them.
How is it even legal for a company to decide what you can or can’t install in your own device?
The US supports monopolies as long as they have a backdoor. It was the same with Microsoft in the 90s.
Because anti-trust has not been enforced this century, with the exception of Lina Khan’s work as the FCC director.
Companies have been pushing the boundaries further and further for decades, with almost no push back.
Legal is just whoever has the most resources.
For the same reason they can make you click agree to terms before you can do anything with the device.
Terms of service are unenforceable as nobody reads them.
A contract cannot be valid if one side has not read it. If one side cannot guarantee the other side has read it, it’s their onus.
Also, clicking a button that says “I accept” isn’t signing a contract. If it doesn’t have your signature or a certified digital signature, it isn’t a contract.
It’s just an “I told you so” that allows them to kick you out, like the rules at the entrance of a restaurant. It doesn’t give them the power to sue you or anything like that. It’s just covering their asses with legalese excuses. Any legal practice that claims otherwise are just legal mercenaries for the wealthy.The legal part doesn’t matter, the important part is that if you don’t click yes, they control the software and you can’t install the third party software.
Ugghhhh, its THEIR OS you’re using. Perfect example is Nintendo.
“If you want to replace Internet Explorer with Netscape Navigator, why not just use Solaris or OS/2 or something? It’s THEIR OS you’re using” didn’t go over too well with the courts.
You mean the original NES which they tried in court to stop unlicensed carts and lost, right? Right?
Moreso now with Switch 2s getting bans for using 3rd party accessories/those not working outright since they lack some baked in h/w ID that Sw2 checks for online
I reckon that means it is not actually your own device.
Do we stand any chance? And how fucking dare these fucking outlets continue to normalize this shit.
We need development of Linux OSs for phones to ramp up. And we need Linux distributors and backers to fight back against “age verification” laws that are actually ID verification laws. There’s a global attack underway on multiple fronts against free software, private computing, and user ownership and control of devices.
In the meantime, for a stopgap, there’s GrapheneOS, but that doesn’t fix the problem of developers having to choose between Google’s way or unpaid obscurity.
PostmarketOS was already mentioned.
There’s another Linux OS for phones I’m aware of: https://sailfishos.org/- Android is a Linux distro
- Most people, me included, don’t want to run normal Linux on their phone. I use Linux on the desktop. I don’t hate Linux or anything of the sorts. But for phone use, normal Linux sucks major ass. What we need is GrapheneOS to be normalized and independent app stores for GrapheneOS.
- The above is not to say Linux phones are bad for everyone. I am sure there are few people who would enjoy it, but they are the minority.
LineageOS supported models: https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/
The weirdest part to me: this comes after the EU determined that Apple’s locked store is too restrictive, and Apple agreed to allow 3rd party stores. Why the hell would Android go in the opposite direction? Will this put them in violation of the same EU regulation?
Presumably, they’ll get a 100 000 dollar fine, and that’ll be it.
Oh they allow alternative stores now, too; you can install Epic for example. I wonder if that’ll be subject to these new rules as well?
No, not really. This is not a real alternative. Google will still try to kill alternative ROMs and it’s just a matter of time before GrapheneOS will no longer be maintainable. A push for true Linux mobile OS is needed. Time is running out.
People can donate to all of these things if they wish - I dont see why GrapheneOS can’t also be given funds even just for the work that they’re doing currently.
Sure, you can donate. I’m just saying it’s not a good solution to the problem at hand. But it’s a good solution to other problems and it will work short term.
Just bought a second hand pixel 6 to test Graphene. Let’s see what Motorola does and how Linux phones do in the future.
Motorola is making a graphene OS phone soon.
If they don’t cancel the partnership over
age verificationdigital IDs
I really wish I wasn’t so dependent on certain financial apps. How much happier I would be to just give Google the finger and switch to Lineage, Graphene, or something like that. Unfortunately, a lot of must-have apps for me to even be able to live in my country, practically speaking, are incompatible with anything other than official iOS and Android.
Why not get a bank pass for this kind of stuff, and do banking on websites if you need to?
Couldn’t you get like the cheapest android phone just for these apps specifically? Or do people need to do banking stuff on the go?
This is something I am considering. Could even put it in a Faraday bag when I’m not using it.
Unfortunately it doesn’t really work that way where I’m from.
Typically, the website says “please confirm authorisation on your mobile phone”.
Not all banks. Many provide a scanner for the user.
There’s no such thing as “side loading”, they literally made up that term some years back in a release of android tools (adb).
It’s just installing software.
