budget reasons spent all the munny on ai hehe
It just means they have to write “mistakes” or “performance issues” on the paperwork instead of “replaced by robots”
PIP, personal improvement plan: you must be faster than the AI for one week. You fail, you’re fired.
You massively underestimate the efficiency of Chinese social policies.
996 is not legal either and yet many companies did that. I’m sure many still do, it’s a hypercapitalist country just like the US.
Capitalist? Yes. Just like US? Nah not even close
It’s just more affordable. Companies are still more important than people unfortunately.
Gov is not dictated by corps or oil companies. There are plenty of legislations and regulations that prevent fiendish capitalism behavior to some extenct. Authoritarian gov with smart leader
When they get caught.
The Chinese government most likely helped cover up the baby formula melamine scandal… Until it became big enough that they had to take action and then people got executed.
Tesla was nearly immune to lawsuits before China’s own EV production really kicked off. People died, family members sued Tesla, lost, had to pay Tesla for defamation.
They’ll throw private individuals under the bus to protect corporations until things become too public.
Just to save your eyes from being assaulted (had to turn off styling):
Thank you for your service. I almost got cancer by looking at the website.
How the hell does an article that we can’t even read get so many upvotes.
Stuff like this really shakes my belief in the voting system.
Because hate for AI is so blind that you can post anything and people will immediately fall for it.
People only read the title, not the article
You can’t require reading the article before someone vote/comment, but what if communities could enable “ponder voting” where users can only vote 30 seconds after viewing the post? This would prevent people from scrolling by from voting, but people who at least slightly skim the article first won’t be affected.
Probably not viably due to it having to be supported by all platforms, but just a thought.
EDIT: It could work by returning a JWT with a post ID and time when fetching the post and having the vote endpoint support providing it. Although, I can also see it being a bit annoying and being trivially bypassed by adding some code to the client.
If you’re on Firefox, just enable reading mode.
Just get rid of votes and display the social credit score instead.
wow, rare win for Chinese workers.
I think in terms of workers rights, China is rapidly coming up to the West in the 50s. There’s a massive growth in middle class as well as white collar jobs, especially in tech and engineering.
This has put pressure on society as a whole for much higher standards of living, and thus better wages and better rights. They are no longer the cheap ass labor country, that’s being exported to Africa and such.
Although the 996 culture is still insane, but I think that partly comes from the extreme competitive environment in the tech sector. There were similar stories years ago in the video game industry, and that probably hasn’t changed much.
996 is illegal in China. Employers caught violating the law are prosecuted when found out, to my understanding.
Only if they fail to bribe the right government officials
So, is this like a vibes based comment or do you know something about this?
Chinese society is oiled by the concept of guanxi (关系) which is the word for uh… it’s the like standing you gain through your connections in society. This is why kids of party members routinely drive around beijing in black Audis breaking traffic regulations with impunity because the police can’t touch them.
Similarly, if you pass a little something or do the right favours to the right officials, and those officials pass it up the chain, then any sort of building consent or other lawbreaking exercise becomes possible.
At least that’s what things were like when I was last there in 2008. I have no reason to believe it has changed significantly since then.
I did a web search:
https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2025
According to this site, China is in a four-way tie ranked 76 of 181 countries measured in terms of corruption (lower is better). It scored 43 of 100 on their “Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI)” (higher is better).
I think the parent post has merit, as China is notably more corrupt than many similarly sized western world countries. (But my afternoon web search is far from authoritative or definitive).
I genuinely don’t know much about corruption in China (or other places, really), so I’m pretty ambivalent.
But when I look at transparency.org’s methodology, it raises some minor doubts. What they do is they collect surveys from 12 different institutions, 10 of which are based in US allied countries. This, combined with the fact that the US is in some kind of cold war with China, makes me a bit doubtful of its veracity. Analogously, how trustworthy would I deem an assessment of America made by Iranian, Chinese, and Russian institutions? Not very.
I’m not saying China isn’t corrupt, it may very well be. I don’t know. But I prefer suspending judgement until I’ve looked into it properly.
A couple of million Uyghurs would like a word.
I see… keep spreading debunked propaganda, while thinking yourself as a freedom of speech fighter.
Debunked by whom? The UN verifies it, which instagram ‘source’ are you using?
Independent auditors like co-west-pro consultancy
Also, the UN itself has never verified or confirmed the claims of genocide.
This article go through the claims one by one.
My concern is that there aren’t enough resources to go around.
1st world countries live off of the work of China and 3rd world countries. If China becomes a 1st world country, we will all need to get our products from somewhere else. China has more people than Europe and America combined.
So are you proposing we keep the Chinese as our slaves forever?
No. I’m proposing that there will be issues once China gets slaves of it’s own.
China already has slaves of it’s own, people who have a rural hukou. It creates a permanent legal underclass of exploitable labor with basically zero rights.
What I’m talking about is pretty simple, in China you’re registered in the province of your birth, or parent’s birth. This registration is called a hukou, and is pretty much impossible to change except in cases of extreme wealth.
Your hukou determines what social services you have access to. Social services in China are paid for at the local level, and are only available to people who have a local hukou.
The problem is that there are no jobs in the poor provinces, and if someone moves to the city for work, they have zero access to the social services that their taxes are supporting, unless they pay out of pocket.
These migrant workers have no labor protections, no unemployment, no local schools for their kids, except for criminally underfunded migrant schools, that are not free.
So you have about 15% of the population of China who you hear about, living upper middle class lives with free social services, supported by the exploitation of everyone else.
You’re preaching to the choir. China does have a large middle and upper class, but this only because of its large overall population. Most people in China make less than $7500 per year. They don’t have much leftover after buying food and rent.
It would take a lot of Vietnamese, Cambodian, African, etc. laborers living in inhumane conditions to give the over 1 billion people in China a 1st world lifestyle. I think this is more or less the point of the Belt and Road initiative. They are competing with Europe and the United States to obtain a “low-income” workforce.
…on the bright side, AI might make it possible to remove slave labor from the equation. On the dark side, 3rd world countries that can’t afford this technology will be pretty much fucked.
I don’t think it’s for workers rights. Of course there is part of civil unrest, that might happen if million of people are ot of work. But also power is more consolidated in fewer people, so it would be more danger in long run (for Xi of course)
There are so many speech restrictions and humans rights violations in China that scare the hell out of me, but then I see rulings like this and their progress on robotics and tech and I think “Well, they are doing something right…” I hope one day there is more free speech for people in China who deserve to be able to say what they want.
It’s a great ruling because companies that would normally favor efficiency and profit increases are in a better position to take these existing workers and utilize them in different ways than just have everyone fired en masse and then somehow the market will sort it out. Even under classical economic theories, governments are supposed to regulate externalities and AI displacing workers too rapidly could be considered a type of externality.
There are so many speech restrictions and humans rights violations in China that scare the hell out of me
I hear an earful about how horrible and repressive the Chinese state government is to its citizens from the outside, largely by national media talking heads and Big Data surveillance company flaks. Meanwhile, the consequences of talking shit on the Chinese internet - account suspension/deactivation, getting in trouble with your employer/school possibly with the threat of firing/expulsion, periodic investigation by state police for threats of violence, possible restrictions on business/travel because you’ve been added to a “watch list”, potential for arrest on some bullshit charge - seem to be all the same kinds of consequences periodically doled out to western citizens.
I’m told Americans have “free speech”. But then the Supreme Court lays so many caveats down that even a silly toothless joke is strictly prohibited under US laws. I’m told Chinese officials are brutal and draconian and mean-spirited, but they don’t have anything approaching our prison population. I haven’t seen evidence of any kind of mob-rule social media gang dedicated to doxing Chinese dissidents, either. So they manage to stay ahead of Canary Mission and Project Veritas in that regard.
I hope one day there is more free speech for people in China who deserve to be able to say what they want.
I want to know what that’s supposed to look like in practice. Where can I find the Free Speech that the Evil Foreign Country is supposed to one day get?
Because if the dream is an American style system of free expression… What are we pinning for, really? Chinese Alex Jones and Tucker Carlson? Uyghurs given the Palestine Action treatment? An independent Taiwan that enjoys all the diplomatic kindness we afford to our neighbors down in Haiti and Cuba?
What are we even asking for?
This is exactly right. ‘Free speech’ in the US is about to be all but eliminated in a couple of short years. They are starting with the BS age confirmation every State is slowly adding right after California to operating systems. Just watch how fast that turns into China.
Your logic is shit.
Everyone is agreeing with your bashing of the US, which is fine, I agree with that part.
But just because the United States is creating/ allowing internment camps and death camps doesn’t mean it’s okay for the Chinese to do it to the Uygurs. Just because the US is stupidly throwing our military weight around doesn’t make it okay for China to do it, especially not to one of the highest rated democracies in the world.
Is your premise that suppression of minorities and military adventurism is par for the course so there’s no use criticizing it?
But just because the United States is creating/ allowing internment camps and death camps doesn’t mean it’s okay for the Chinese to do it to the Uygurs
China is building schools and factors in Xinjiang, extending their massive rail network into the country, developing new high density urban centers, and - as a consequence - importing a great deal of the neighboring territory language, culture, and economic practices.
The US is defunding education across the Southwest, gutting low-cost public transit, criminalizing the development of property in migrant neighborhoods, and conducting mass arrests of legal residents based on the social media posts of grifters and fanatics.
How are these two policies equivalent?
Is your premise that suppression of minorities and military adventurism is par for the course so there’s no use criticizing it?
On what planet is policing your own sovereign territory against domestic insurgency “military adventurism”?
How are these two policies equivalent?
I’m arguing against the premise of making the argument based on equating the two countries. The circumstances/ policies don’t have to be different or the same to evaluate them.
Also, your assertion of what the Chinese government is doing in Xinjiang might well be true, but what people/ the West take issue with is the rounding up of dissidents, sending them to reeducation camps, and forcibly sterilizing some of them.
On what planet is policing your own sovereign >territory against domestic insurgency “military >adventurism”?
As far as the Chinese government goes, this part refers to taking Taiwan by force. Literally only the Chinese government would refer to Taiwan as their ‘sovereign territory’.
I’m arguing against the premise
I’m discussing the actual material facts in these two countries.
I’m listening to someone point to LBJ’s Great Society and calling it a Holocaust. You sound like one of those homeschool libertarians, screaming about how truancy laws are unconstitutional.
what people/ the West take issue with is the rounding up of dissidents, sending them to reeducation camps, and forcibly sterilizing some of them
Not when their friends in The Philippines or Israel are doing it. Not when they’re doing it to refugees in US prisons or UK detention camps.
What Westerners object to isn’t Chinese policing. It’s Chinese sovereignty, Chinese technology, and Chinese trade they’re freaked out about.
As far as the Chinese government goes, this part refers to taking Taiwan by force.
What blockade are they running against
CubaTaiwan? How many military bases are they squatting on in defiance of the national government? How many times have they attempted to assassinate aCubanVenezuelanIranianAfghaniTaiwanese head of state?How many homes have they bulldozed? How many citizens have they butchered? How many fishing boats have double-tapped?
Your entire response is just Whataboutism. You’re still simping for the man, just the Chinese man instead of the American one.
Not when their friends in The Philippines or Israel are doing it.
In truth I don’t know anything about the government in the Philippines right now; if they are running camps then there is a shameful lack of media coverage about it.
But vastly more people in the US are horrified by the plight of the Palestinians than that of the Uyghurs, primarily because they feel at least indirectly responsible for it. But the people calling out the mistreatment of the Uyghurs aren’t silent about the Palestinians.
As far as the Chinese posture towards Taiwan, we have intelligence and data documenting their military buildup for at least a decade. They are building amphibious assault ships (https://youtu.be/DtrGMsGsZiU) and verbally making public statements about reunification.
I don’t think we should expect China to do a bunch of random piddle-farting around with arbitrary bombing like US policy under Trump. Mainly because that is not at all what their consolidation of authority in Hong Kong looked like, but also because they’re not fucking dumbasses like Trump.
Whataboutism
You’re accusing China of invading Taiwan, a thing it categorically hasn’t done.
Can you respond to this comment (https://reddthat.com/comment/26414066)? That was the original thread and I’m interested in your response.
The AP is about as unbiased as you can get: https://apnews.com/article/269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764C
And Lemmy is also full of propaganda. That commenter didn’t even cite a source.
Bias is situational; look at AP’s reporting of the Israel-Palestine conflict for an example of their obscene bias towards western interests. Bias should be assessed on a per-claim basis to avoid logical fallacies like ad hominem.
Here’s a good, neutral take on the unreliability of Uyghur related reporting in sources like the AP: https://www.aph.gov.au/DocumentStore.ashx?id=4767d3ce-8490-464f-8508-d8f3b7878808&subId=703775
It’s almost as if the speech restrictions and human rights violations are grossly exaggerated or entirely misreported by companies that are exclusively funded by the US intelligence community. . .
Don’t get me wrong, some still do exist (especially on the company side of things). Since, you know, it’s a country consisting of 1/7th of humanity; but equally it’s pretty silly to think 1/7th of humanity is too stupid to do anything about a single supposedly hyper repressive government that allegedly doesn’t let them speak against it.
It’s crazy that a country with no free speech has tens of thousands of protests every year.
I saw that protests are free as long as they are against the local government. People can complain online and in-person against local authorities and demand central government step in to save them, too. But if the rethoric starts going to “central government is wrong”, then it gets supressed
Do you have a source that says that happens in today’s China? I know that Falun Gong is suppressed, but they are literally a CIA-funded group created to undermine the state.
Falun Gong have allied with foreign intelligence services, but they weren’t created by those services. Originally, the organization was allied with the Communist Party and on generally good terms. They only ran afoul of the Chinese Communists when Falun Gong leaders became embroiled in increasingly noxious financial and abuse scandals. Not unlike how the Catholic Church’s status soured across Europe and the US East Coast following the slew of child sex abuse allegations.
That’s when Falun Gong officials started fleeing to the NATO block and issuing increasingly hysterical allegations about the conduct of the CCP towards its members.
Thanks for the correction. The point remains that today’s CCP mostly limits itself to suppressing foreign actors. And why should it need to suppress its own citizens, anyways? The CCP has a 95.5% approval rate. The Chinese people are utterly committed to their socialist project, and rightly view it as a creation to be proud of.
It’s not CCP. It’s CPC.
lol I was like 60% sure I had it right. Should have double checked.
And why should it need to suppress its own citizens, anyways?
The goal of the modern CCP is largely understood to be economic growth and steadily improving quality of life for domestic citizenry as a means of discouraging domestic upheavels (Tianamen and the Falun Gong lead movements being two classic examples).
That’s going to come with some level of suppression due to friction between what any subset of the population believes/wants and what the central government believes/wants.
But this isn’t - at it’s root - a Socialist policy. It is a Confucian policy, with Socialist Characteristics.
The CCP has a 95.5% approval rate.
I hope you’re joking.
There’s no shortage of dissatisfaction with the CCP from within the Chinese polity. There’s no shortage from within the CCP.
But what westerners don’t like to talk about is the Mass Line approach employed by Chinese political leadership, which legitimately seeks to minimize conflict in pursuit of maximum economic benefits.
You don’t have gonzo gunmen storming Beijing in hopes of winging President Xi, right now, because you don’t have a public openly at odds with the mission of the chief executive.
It’s NOT CCP!
Not joking. Harvard even agrees with me. The Chinese people love the CCP.
You mean like how the West mashes people skulls in for holding a banner against genocide?
I bet in China you can talk about the genocide in Gaza without getting beaten, jailed, or deported.
Try saying
Tibeton a bus stop, and watch your ass getting hauled to the nearest police station in like 30 seconds.Perhaps. And if not that, I’m sure there are other forbidden topics there.
Just like in the West.
The difference is that the West pretends to care about free speech and even uses it as an excuse to bomb/sanction/invade other countries.
…Tibet is a province in China and is openly talked about kiddo. Tibet was, for a period of about 40 years, under a brutal monarchy that had institutionalized child sex slavery. The Dalai Lama is a child sex advocate.
Tibet then did a civil war around the time of China’s revolution, where the main party of the rebellion which I don’t care to look up the name of because Tibetan is mostly nonsense words to me, requested help from the newly freed China. China obliged, with the caveat of Tibet returning to China instead of continuing on as an independent country. Which was greatly preferred during war time at least because, you know, they were spending all their military resources fighting the UK and US backed Tibetan child sex slave government.
After the war, like all provinces Tibet was poor, poorly integrated with the rest of China, and had little access to outside resources… until about the 1990s. Like the rest of China. Now Tibetan culture and language is mandatory for schools in Tibet (like Uyghur in Xinjiang and Mongolian in Inner Mongolia, also there’s that weird muslim group in inner mongolia that actually has their own culture and language requirements in schools that I forget. And I mean weird as in, why did they become muslim that far north east, not that they’re weird for being Muslim.) and Tibet, like Xinjiang, is seeing a golden age of modernization and resources being poured into it.
Because China realized after the East Tukistan terror attacks from Turkey and the US that you can’t have home grown terrorism or dissidence if you just, give people the resources they need to live well and thrive.
This assumes that people can generally be replaced by AI, which is not true.
AI is an excuse to fire people, and a powerful marketing tool to make a company look better to investors, but it has not had the massive impact techbros want us to believe it has.
Shame, because like everything, it could genuinely be helpful, and instead, we’ve mostly got a bunch of applications no one asked for, and a constant bombardment of dreadful predictions that make regular people go mad.
In practice, I’ve heard of companies using AI to “replace” large groups of people, then higher back a few of them with expanded responsibilities and worse pay.
So, they are using it to replace workers, just not in the neat sci-fi sense.
They don’t need AI for that. I was handed the exact same deal in 2008.
How is it not true? Just look at translators: during the past few years, most of their jobs just disappeared because AI can do their job just slightly worse than humans but costs much less. Some jobs are easier to replace than others but there certainly are examples of jobs that can be replaced by AI
Past few years? No. MT has existed for well over 20 years now. Also, AI still struggles with interpretation, which is the hard part of translating texts and speech.
Regardless, I said “most” jobs, not all jobs. AI is still by and large the excuse, not the motivation, for layoffs.
Look at Klarna, they had brilliant idea to fire support people, because AI can replace them, then after huge lose in customers, they now say “it needs to be balanced”
Yeah certainly AI is not able to replace many jobs yet. I am not arguing with that, I am arguing that AI already can replace some jobs
China has better worker’s policies than America.
America is a capitalist hellscape, but so is China.
Unions and strikes in-practice are banned.
They seem kinda equivalent on workers rights, to me.
Unions and strikes were illegal in America, until our grandfathers and great grandfathers fought in the streets with company and government goons, cracking skulls and getting their own cracked, in order to force those rights to happen.
Not one single worker’s right that we enjoy today was given to us. We TOOK it through violence, and forcing the government and corporations to FEAR us in an existential manner. They came to understand that if they did not give in, we would literally DESTROY their corporations, and then them. And it worked.
They no longer fear us. We need to change that.
If those policies aren’t enforced it hardly matters. 996 is technically illegal there but last I checked some of the richest companies in China were still practicing it.
Happy to be shown evidence to the contrary, but I don’t think the plight of Chinese workers is better than Americans, and certainly not Europeans.
Did you even hear about America’s Apple’s Foxconn factory in China where the factory has nets on the windows to stop the frequent ‘inconvenient’ problem of cheap labor workers attempts of window jump suicides, for example? Co-operative structure (worker-owned) companies have more likelihood to have more human policies to, uh, themselves, than ponzi scheme corporations. Despite a fancy socialist (‘communist’) sounding title of government structure, Russia and China both took International Monetary Fund (IMF) loans, with their conditions of worker rights suffocation policies and market concentration monopolization policies. America’s and China’s feudalist monopolist billionaires have a lot more proximity of ideology than either of their propaganda machines has acknowledged so far.
Yeah, I know about all of that, and they still have a better working environment than Americans.
As China has prospered, they have managed to reduce most poverty in their nation. As we have prospered under MAGA, Americans’ quality of life is decreasing, and the slide is increasing. China is going the right way, we are definitely going the wrong way.
I’m not saying that China doesn’t have issues, but they are still committed to the betterment of their country’s future, while American leaders are ONLY concerned with exploiting our country and it’s people to the absolute maximum degree. They don’t want to leave one illegal penny on the table.
I don’t want to be China, but I don’t want to be MAGAMERICA either.
Typical Chinese factory workers have 10-12 hour shifts 6 days a week. Many workers literally live at the factory. Sounds way better than the US or Europe.
Anything’s possible when you make shit up
They’re a worker’s republic, of course they do.
Is this a China propaganda site? Sure reads like it is.
Step 1: give unrealistic KPI, cited performance increase due to AI Step 2: put employee into PIP Step 3: fire employee due to performance Step 4: do stock buyback because you have extra budget from firing employees
I’m not sure about step 4. I mean, China is pretty strict with those kinds of things.
Based China
I would kill to live in a country like China that optimizes its economy for use value over exchange value.
Honey, I used to live there, and I hate to burst your bubble, but there’s a huge HUGE difference between what China says and does.
I’ve heard from many other Chinese people who say the opposite, so I’m gonna go ahead and press X to doubt.
Edit: I also don’t really care what someone with enough resources to emigrate has to say. I’m more concerned with ordinary workers, who have a 90%+ approval rating of the CCP.
What do the rural poor in China think of their new billionaire class and their ever increasing wealth gap?
They probably hate it, but are glad that they have the CCP to prevent them from gaining political power as well as economic power.
The CCP are the wealthy people in control. Those are some good mental gymnastics.
Anything’s possible when you make shit up
I agree with everything you posted except I have to also press X to doubt on your claim of 90%+ approval ratings amongst ordinary workers. You can’t get 90 percent of people to agree on anything else in the world, except the CCP? It just doesn’t compute as a real number for me I guess. But I’d love to be proven wrong.
Here’s an article from the Harvard Gazette talking about the surveys. The approval rating was 95.5% and notably, Harvard did not dispute the accuracy of the findings or have issue with the methodology of the survey.
As someone currently living there, I don’t believe you.
Also, don’t patronize me. It’s rude.
Patronizing and completely unsubstantiated!
Tankies call you out for
patronizingwhen literally every single comment ever by tankies on Lemmy are patronizing and calling out people for “being brainwashed capitalistic libs”. Yikes.“Everyone I disagree with is a tankie.”
I wonder how this works…
The great leap sideways.
Strange to see China of all places to be societal ahead of everyone else.
Not really to be honest. They’re an authoritarian regime, but they do a lot of social policies. It’s a weird mix but not a new one.
It is indeed a weird mix in China, but I had not expected this one. Its a law that could be useful everywhere, even though it is hard to prove.
It’s not nearly as authoritarian as people like to claim. Chinese citizens hold tens of thousands of protests each year against a wide variety of topics, and the government is legally required to respond to them. As a consequence, the Chinese government is orders of magnitude more responsive to local corruption or abuses of power than almost any western country.
It absolutely is. Have a look at the definition of authoritarianism, China checks all the boxes.
So does the US at this point.
Not fully yet, but heading there head first, yep
Literally all governments are definitionally authoritarian, it’s a stupid criticism
Absolutely not! I encourage you to re-read the definition of authoritarianism and research a bit more about the governments all around the world!
Ah! So you consider that every single restriction a country applies makes it authoritarian. Yeah, I don’t think you understand authoritarianism, and in today’s context, that’s dangerous.
But I won’t lose sleep over it!
No, it isn’t.
Of all place? Have you been living under a rock?
