seen this post elsewhere? click for explanation

This post got banned from !memes@lemmy.world for reason “Troll Posting” which is Very Disrespectful in my opinion. 😕

I mean this meme with full respect and love to my fellow community members and I was proud of the discussion and support it was creating.

EDIT: POST RESTORED YAY. (Thank you to the mods it turned out to be a misunderstanding.)

Important clarification/FAQ

I am not calling to coddle or excuse the behavior of bigoted men in any way!

I am calling to be kind and understanding to young men (often ages 10-20) who are very manipulable and succeptible to the massive anti feminist propaganda machine. Hope this clarifies that very important distinction. :)

Very good comments that express key points:

  • Kedly@lemm.ee
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    5 months ago

    The fact that is post got removed for trolling is exactly why my feelings towards the bear meme have evolved from annoyed to “Reminded of the multiple times women have attempted to use cops as a weapon against me”

    • TheFriar@lemm.ee
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      5 months ago

      This has happened to you multiple times? In what type of situation does this happen to you?

      • Soulg@sh.itjust.works
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        5 months ago

        Bad people who happen to be women, know that they will be given the benefit of the doubt, and can 911 during an argument

    • spujb@lemmy.cafeOP
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      5 months ago

      Holy shit I am so sorry this happened to you!?! That is not cool.

      ACAB and also abusive women can kick rocks

  • SharkEatingBreakfast@sopuli.xyz
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    5 months ago

    Know what tipped me off that Lemmy really doesn’t get nuance?

    There was an article about a ride-share / taxi company that cateted to women and provided drivers who were also women, to make them feel safer getting a ride.

    The comments were absolutely venomous, calling it out as “sexism” and how “what’s to stop me from identifying as a woman and calling? They can’t refuse me!” which… fuckin’ oof.

    But I figured out why they’re upset: because they want people to be treated equally instead of acknowledging that some people have different needs that may require extra services to level the playing field.

    Equality vs. Equity.

  • Zagorath@aussie.zone
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    5 months ago

    I saw your post and don’t think it should have been removed, let alone banned, but I don’t think you did yourself any favours in the comments. You kept asserting it as fact that there is a huge problem with silencing SA survivors, and when asked to give evidence, the only thing you had was three comments in the same thread, where the one sexist guy was being downvoted and the multiple people correcting him were upvoted. Not good evidence of a systemic problem.

    (Ironically, you now do have that evidence, in the form of your ban.)

  • Match!!@pawb.social
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    5 months ago

    I’m not sure youth disenfranchisement is caused by bad rhetoric considering the other causes like wealth inequality and generally poor life fulfillment

    • NaibofTabr@infosec.pub
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      5 months ago

      No, not caused by, it just feeds the confirmation bias of people who are already on that mental path.

    • Sop@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      5 months ago

      Being kind and understanding to bigoted men has done nothing for feminism. This meme is ignorant of the feminist struggle.

      • spujb@lemmy.cafeOP
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        5 months ago

        I am not calling to be kind and understanding to bigoted men for sure!

        I am calling to be kind and understanding to young men (often ages 10-20) who are very manipulable and succeptible to the massive anti feminist propaganda machine. Hope this clarifies that very important distinction. :)

  • no banana@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    I agree. That doesn’t mean women should step back to please men, rather that we all as a society need to take the problem of disenfranchised men as the serious issue and long term threat to stable society that it is. This doesn’t mean that we need to fight them, just communicate to them in a better way.

  • recklessengagement@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    I was wondering where this post went. I was so confused when it dissapeared - someone in the comments had mentioned a community called “nuance posting” or something and I was trying to find it :\

    • spujb@lemmy.cafeOP
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      5 months ago

      yeah that was me 😭 the community doesn’t exist but itd be cool if it did

  • ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    I was “groomed” into the far-right around 2006-2010, and I have to say progressives always understood me much better than anyone on the right. Best the right could do is blame my single mother for remarrying to an abusive jerk due to financial necessity, my father for not taking me with himself to my also abusive stepmother (my actual parents also needed a lot of self-reflection to be at least tolerable), and of course the same scaremongering and Jordan Peterson-level life “advices” that are popular today. They were way more transparent about not understanding gaming and the likes, unlike today’s right that pretends to care about it with its gamergates and similar culture war talking points.

    • spujb@lemmy.cafeOP
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      5 months ago

      Thanks for sharing that experience wow!

      And welcome back to the cool as hell, progressive, respecting of human dignity club 💖🙂‍↕️🐺💪 we missed you

  • Franklin@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    Everyone has a right to be heard.

    Everyone has a right to their pain.

    Someone else’s pain being acknowledged and addressed does not invalidate yours.

    Comparing pain leads only to a race to the bottom when we should all be lifting each other up.

    • HauntedCupcake@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      Acknowledging someone’s pain also makes it easier to understand their motives, find common ground, and love forward together

      • spujb@lemmy.cafeOP
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        5 months ago

        love forward

        wait i love this actually i don’t know if it was a typo or not and honestly i don’t care this is such a beautiful phrase

  • SuddenDownpour@sh.itjust.works
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    5 months ago

    This post got banned from !memes@lemmy.world for reason “Troll Posting” which is Very Disrespectful in my opinion. 😕

    I find it really disrespectful as well since it was one of the most productive and well tempered OPs on this whole drama arc, at least on Lemmy.

  • spujb@lemmy.cafeOP
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    5 months ago

    EDIT: Post has restored and it turned out to be a misunderstanding! Thank you to the mod team for being really chill about this. :)

    You guys have no clue how sad I am that the mods did this. I reached out for an explanation, but nothing so far, and all that positive discussion and holding each other accountable is just wiped out, meanwhile all of the other posts full of straight up misogynistic hate and flaming is still up. Guess this is what I get for trying to be a good actor online.

    • henfredemars@infosec.pub
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      5 months ago

      Take heart. Should the reason be less than stellar, the fediverse protects you by offering numerous venues to share your thoughts.

      Fundamentally, you only require an audience who wishes to hear. You were able to come to this place and share anyway. No one can dominate the discussion. It’s a beautiful thing.

      • spujb@lemmy.cafeOP
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        5 months ago

        Honestly serves me right for trusting any .world community without JonsJava as a mod. 😝 JonsJava and the Blahaj mods are what make this platform bearable.

        Edit: The mods reached out and were actually very kind about the misunderstanding. No hard feelings!

  • Neato@ttrpg.network
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    5 months ago

    It’s not on women to soften their complaints of rape and harassment to try to prevent men from becoming incels and Nazis.

    For Fucks Sake

    Men can deal with the very mild discomfort of being occasionally reminded women have to always be vigilant.

    • Ookami38@sh.itjust.works
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      5 months ago

      Stopping the progressive downfall of society is on all of society, period. What’s the end game of alienating half the race?

      You’re right about one thing. Women can’t make men not rape, and it doesn’t really fall to them. Does it fall to the good guys, though? The ones who already don’t rape and stand up to their peers who have toxic ideas? And, really, are you reaching anyone who needs to hear it with rhetoric like this?

      Changing society is a game everyone has to be on board with. Everyone makes up society, so you can’t just tell half of them they’re not fit and expect it just to work out. Sure, not all men, but quite frankly I’m tired of having to be “one of the good ones”. We already decided labeling someone one of the good ones wasn’t right with black people, we really need to have that fight again?

      • Neato@ttrpg.network
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        5 months ago

        Does it fall to the good guys, though? The ones who already don’t rape and stand up to their peers who have toxic ideas?

        Yes, precisely. If the majority of men don’t change the culture by standing up for women and against low-key misogyny that’s everywhere then nothing will change and they aren’t really “good guys”.

        And, really, are you reaching anyone who needs to hear it with rhetoric like this?

        Dunno. But there’s certainly a LOT of misogynists on Lemmy and I’m going to keep pushing back against them. They probably think they’re feminists, too. Quoting bear statistics, saying “not all men”, equivocating gender and race relations, telling women to “tone down” their complains so they don’t alienate rapists and potential rapists.

        Sure, not all men, but quite frankly I’m tired of having to be “one of the good ones”.

        Lol, don’t fret. With an attitude like that, you aren’t.

        black people

        We aren’t talking about race, honey. If they think you can just swap labels you REALLY don’t understand what’s going on. No surprise.

        • Ookami38@sh.itjust.works
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          5 months ago

          Not gonna bother with the nuance-missing ad hom attacks. Just this one.

          We aren’t talking about race, honey. If they think you can just swap labels you REALLY don’t understand what’s going on. No surprise.

          If you can’t see that it is 100% an equivalent situation, you have no idea why people are actually upset and just want to join the noise.

          Also, don’t call me honey. It’s really degrading, id expect better from someone like you.

    • spujb@lemmy.cafeOP
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      5 months ago

      absolutely agree ❤️

      which is why i am very thankful for those who put in patience and effort into encouraging young men to see their shortcomings ~ outside the context of women voicing their experiences ~ in order to achieve a more equitable future for all

  • rxin@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    5 months ago

    What was the original hypothetical question? “Would you rather be stuck camping with a man or a bear?” Or is it “young man”? Or “creepy man”? I’m browsing the comments on all these threads and I’m just so confused.

  • Kalkaline @leminal.space
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    5 months ago

    Dudes need to sack up and realize there’s a lot of dudes out there that are creepy. It’s up to you as a stand up dude to call these creepy dudes out when they act up. Women don’t owe you anything, you stand up for them because it’s the right thing to do, and not because you want sex.

        • Ookami38@sh.itjust.works
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          5 months ago

          Toxic masculinity is applying that mentality to something inherent to men. So, man up, sack up, nut up, etc. The implication is that if you are not masculine, you should start being so. You got nuts, use em. Pretty toxic.

          How about “grow up” “act an adult” or the like, at least then we’re not tying ability to change and be better with genital status.

    • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      Absolutely. Unfortunately, I think the biggest impact of decent men standing up for fair treatment for women will simply be to make the cretins run back under their rocks - certainly good, but not enough. It’ll take generational change, changing the way boys are raised, the kind that’s been slowly happening with each successive wave of feminism, to truly solve this problem.

      I was lucky enough to have a mother who was, despite being otherwise fairly conservative, unyieldingly feminist (in practice and speech, if not in labeling). I was raised with the knowledge that women, fundamentally, are people (gasp), for better and worse, and that society unfairly discriminates against women and harasses them for no other reason than the petty cruelty of a few who benefit and the many who are easily misled or hope to benefit.

    • spujb@lemmy.cafeOP
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      5 months ago

      Being a model and force of positive masculinity is chad, sigma-pilled, and hot as hell. 🙂‍↕️🥵🐺💪