No it’s more likely that they are an actual leftist. China and Ruzzia are (and the SU was!) fascist hellholes that have nothing to do with socialism and/or communism besides screaming it of the windows all the time.
And people who delude themselves to believe something else are really annoying…
I agree in spirit! However the soviet union was neither capitalist nor communist, and fascism is a form of capitalism which means the soviet union wasn’t fascist, but rather something else entirely.
I’m willing to agree partially: AFAIK the usual classification of the economic system of the SU is “state capitalism” which is indeed distinct from capitalism and socialism and I’m even willing to grant it that, if well executed (in the SU it mostly wasn’t) it has the potential to be better than capitalism in a few aspects.
That said, I agree about the notion that fascism is a form of capitalism: The two are often associated with each other, but at the end of the day quite distinct and orthogoanl systems. Fascism is about having a powerful leader who oppresses the population and the SU very much had that in an almost textbook-manner with Stalin, though I will also acknowledge that there were of course detals in hwo it differed from say Naziism in Germany at the same time.
They claim both sides are equally as bad while ignoring the fact that their side has never even been tested. Therefore they have no fucking clue that they wouldn’t be worse.
Shill Stein has already been outed, West is an incompetent blowhard and only shows up ever four years to suggest impractical and irrelevant nonsense,
And JFK….
The Green Party is essential a giant spoiler campaign.
If both sides are the Democratic Party and the tankies, then yes, both are bad, and both are far less bad than the Republicans so vote Democrat please. Drag doesn’t like it when Trump kills all the trans people and women.
I don’t think there are real communists honestly. I don’t think communism is ever really a “viable” solution unless you suppress freedoms. Also someone will always rise to the top. Communism is just one big corporation that you can not leave.
Then you don’t know what communism is. I’ve never met a non-socalist who knows what socialism is, or can describe how or why socialism has failed in the past.
At the risk of starting another argument, I have heard it described thusly—
Suppose you have some number of apples and some number of people who want the apples.
Capitalism is where one person owns all the apples and everyone has to work for them to get an apple.
Socialism is where the apples are distributed evenly to all the people who want them.
Communism is where unlimited apples fall out of the sky and everyone can have as many as they need.
Now, this quote was originally used by capitalists to mock communism, but I think it’s really not a bad analogy. Think about it: Star Trek, another beloved Lemmy staple, takes place in a communist society. Everyone works whatever job they want contributing to society and in return, everyone gets whatever they need provided for by the state. It’s not truly post scarcity, since human greed always outstrips any finite amount of resources. But there is no distinction of rich or poor in Star Trek. People are judged by their intelligence, skill, and merit, and rewarded proportionally. At the same time, there is no concept of money, mostly (except when the plot needs it). What good is money when all your necessities are taken care of? All but your wildest desires can be conjured up at a snap of your fingers, and all the state asks in return is that you do what you can to contribute. It is a mutually beneficial relationship that most people have learned to be content with. That, my friends, is an ideal depiction of communism.
I think the Star Trek ideal is not viable in the least as people will always be self centered. They will either seek either to make there own lives better or to make there families lives better. Also Star Trek changes its narrative depending on the movie or series.
I don’t think humans would be naturally self centered if they lived in an environment that actually encouraged sharing and cooperation instead of actively encouraging and rewarding psychopathy and selfishness.
There were likely people who thought it impossible that wolves would someday become domesticated, and eventually be our best buds, due to their ‘unchangeable’ nature.
Wolves are pack animals, and treat other members of their pack as equals. It’s really not that surprising that an offshoot of their species was domesticated.
Also, dogs are actually kinda unique in how changeable they are. I don’t know of any other species with such drastic variations in size, coloring, and behavior.
I think a public production and distribution of goods can be handled democratically which will eventually happen organically with a strong and adaptable democracy, furthermore I agree any other form of Communism such as the CCP is just malarkey.
Drag isn’t a tankie, and drag wants Ukrainian troops to march on Moscow because Putin is a fuckhead and drag wants to see the fall of the Russian empire
I don’t think you’ll find too many bOtH siDEs accelerationists among the liberals, but don’t let this get in the way of some good ol’ fashioned uninformed ignorance!
I mean that’s why they are called tankies :P
It’s a derogatory word originally used to describe “socialists” defending tanks being sent into ukraine by the soviet union, and then was quickly used to describe all “socialists” defending genocide, imperialism, and authoritarianism.
Nine times out of ten it’s incorrectly defined by idealists that haven’t figured out that a fair amount of American sociological and economic standards are already steeped in socialist services, and the rest of the rhetoric that defines socialism would absolutely fail if attempted in America.
In short, nine times out of ten, a socialist has absolutely no fucking idea what they’re talking about, but just parroting smug bullshit that they think makes them look edgy and educated.
a fair amount of American sociological and economic standards are already steeped in socialist services
If you believe this to be true then you don’t understand what socialism actually is. You seem to be of the mind that any publicly funded service or welfare is socialist, and I don’t blame you for thinking this since it is what the mainstream American political discourse would have you believe.
In short, nine times out of ten, a socialist has absolutely no fucking idea what they’re talking about, but just parroting smug bullshit that they think makes them look edgy and educated.
When you say this immediately after demonstrating that you actually have no idea what you’re talking about it’s a pretty bad look. People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
Drag thinks the means of production should be owned by the workers. Drag is curious why you think the American workers own “a fair amount” of the means of production.
What’s wrong with socialism? I like socialism.
I want to seize the means of production as much as the next guy but it gets kinda boring after a while if that’s the only content available
Sometimes there are cats! That’s always fun! Some of those cats want socialism too, but they’re still cats!
It doesnt get boring hearing about how judges demolish bodily autonomy of women and commit other atrocities in the name of corporate freedom.
Ah you mean in the US? I see, well there’s also the rest of the world
Are you positive? I feel like I need a source on that
If this was memes@lemmy.ml you would’ve been banned for this comment
When you assume anyone complaining about .ml and Hexbear must be a liberal
There’s a massive overlap between being anti-Marx and being liberal. Doesn’t mean all anti-Marxists are liberals, but most are.
I consider myself conservative.
I’ll let myself out before this comment thread explodes
Conservatives fall under the umbrella of liberalism, generally.
Sometimes (just don’t tell them that)
It’s statistically likely, as is their inability to find the block button.
No it’s more likely that they are an actual leftist. China and Ruzzia are (and the SU was!) fascist hellholes that have nothing to do with socialism and/or communism besides screaming it of the windows all the time.
And people who delude themselves to believe something else are really annoying…
I agree in spirit! However the soviet union was neither capitalist nor communist, and fascism is a form of capitalism which means the soviet union wasn’t fascist, but rather something else entirely.
I’m willing to agree partially: AFAIK the usual classification of the economic system of the SU is “state capitalism” which is indeed distinct from capitalism and socialism and I’m even willing to grant it that, if well executed (in the SU it mostly wasn’t) it has the potential to be better than capitalism in a few aspects.
That said, I agree about the notion that fascism is a form of capitalism: The two are often associated with each other, but at the end of the day quite distinct and orthogoanl systems. Fascism is about having a powerful leader who oppresses the population and the SU very much had that in an almost textbook-manner with Stalin, though I will also acknowledge that there were of course detals in hwo it differed from say Naziism in Germany at the same time.
Tankies are authoritarians and therefore cannot call themselves socialist
For clarity, comtemporaries of Marx and Engels also called them authoritarian, hence On Authority.
I’m just sick of the fucking tankies telling me World War 3 will finally give us workers rights.
They claim both sides are equally as bad while ignoring the fact that their side has never even been tested. Therefore they have no fucking clue that they wouldn’t be worse.
Shill Stein has already been outed, West is an incompetent blowhard and only shows up ever four years to suggest impractical and irrelevant nonsense,
And JFK….
The Green Party is essential a giant spoiler campaign.
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If both sides are the Democratic Party and the tankies, then yes, both are bad, and both are far less bad than the Republicans so vote Democrat please. Drag doesn’t like it when Trump kills all the trans people and women.
When you grow that third arm the production will increase by half by default…
Chernobyl was a long con to create production in order to cease the means of it.
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Tankies are fake communists who worship dictators.
I don’t think there are real communists honestly. I don’t think communism is ever really a “viable” solution unless you suppress freedoms. Also someone will always rise to the top. Communism is just one big corporation that you can not leave.
Then you don’t know what communism is. I’ve never met a non-socalist who knows what socialism is, or can describe how or why socialism has failed in the past.
At the risk of starting another argument, I have heard it described thusly—
Suppose you have some number of apples and some number of people who want the apples.
Now, this quote was originally used by capitalists to mock communism, but I think it’s really not a bad analogy. Think about it: Star Trek, another beloved Lemmy staple, takes place in a communist society. Everyone works whatever job they want contributing to society and in return, everyone gets whatever they need provided for by the state. It’s not truly post scarcity, since human greed always outstrips any finite amount of resources. But there is no distinction of rich or poor in Star Trek. People are judged by their intelligence, skill, and merit, and rewarded proportionally. At the same time, there is no concept of money, mostly (except when the plot needs it). What good is money when all your necessities are taken care of? All but your wildest desires can be conjured up at a snap of your fingers, and all the state asks in return is that you do what you can to contribute. It is a mutually beneficial relationship that most people have learned to be content with. That, my friends, is an ideal depiction of communism.
I think the Star Trek ideal is not viable in the least as people will always be self centered. They will either seek either to make there own lives better or to make there families lives better. Also Star Trek changes its narrative depending on the movie or series.
I don’t think humans would be naturally self centered if they lived in an environment that actually encouraged sharing and cooperation instead of actively encouraging and rewarding psychopathy and selfishness.
There were likely people who thought it impossible that wolves would someday become domesticated, and eventually be our best buds, due to their ‘unchangeable’ nature.
We are all products of our environment.
@ProdigalFrog
Wolves are pack animals, and treat other members of their pack as equals. It’s really not that surprising that an offshoot of their species was domesticated.
Also, dogs are actually kinda unique in how changeable they are. I don’t know of any other species with such drastic variations in size, coloring, and behavior.
@possiblylinux127
In practice I never heard of that happening.
I think a public production and distribution of goods can be handled democratically which will eventually happen organically with a strong and adaptable democracy, furthermore I agree any other form of Communism such as the CCP is just malarkey.
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Hong Kong, Taiwan, Tibet, the Phillippines, Crimea, and Ukraine (just to name some ongoing conflicts)
But sure, its all the west with their “mutual defence pacts” and their “incentivizing diplomacy through trade”, Those beligerent bastards.
Also, though, whataboutism in the face of their dogshit ideology.
Drag isn’t a tankie, and drag wants Ukrainian troops to march on Moscow because Putin is a fuckhead and drag wants to see the fall of the Russian empire
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British Citizen in 1910: India is a conflict that was resolved 100 years ago.
I don’t think you’ll find too many bOtH siDEs accelerationists among the liberals, but don’t let this get in the way of some good ol’ fashioned uninformed ignorance!
deleted by creator
Hilarious! Thanks for that.
Drag disagrees.
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I mean that’s why they are called tankies :P It’s a derogatory word originally used to describe “socialists” defending tanks being sent into ukraine by the soviet union, and then was quickly used to describe all “socialists” defending genocide, imperialism, and authoritarianism.
Nine times out of ten it’s incorrectly defined by idealists that haven’t figured out that a fair amount of American sociological and economic standards are already steeped in socialist services, and the rest of the rhetoric that defines socialism would absolutely fail if attempted in America.
In short, nine times out of ten, a socialist has absolutely no fucking idea what they’re talking about, but just parroting smug bullshit that they think makes them look edgy and educated.
If you believe this to be true then you don’t understand what socialism actually is. You seem to be of the mind that any publicly funded service or welfare is socialist, and I don’t blame you for thinking this since it is what the mainstream American political discourse would have you believe.
When you say this immediately after demonstrating that you actually have no idea what you’re talking about it’s a pretty bad look. People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
Drag thinks the means of production should be owned by the workers. Drag is curious why you think the American workers own “a fair amount” of the means of production.
Or they are arguing against democracy