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It’s possible for platforms under the influence of the Chinese government and right wing American billionaires to both have harmful censorship.
But… But… the Tankies told me I had to choose!
What do you mean right wing America bad and China also bad?! But which team are you on then?! Someone tell me which crimes to excuse and which to condemn! /s
I am sure cisgender (顺性别) and other genders are at least shadow-banned on red note. Honestly, I have not heard this word for my entire Chinese-speaking life, until one of my LGBT friend mentioned it.
Everyone knows China is a progressive communist/socialist country that recognizes genders :)
I’ve come across plenty of LGBT content on REDnote in my short time so far
That is interesting. I am genuinely curious, are these by Chinese people in Mandarin/Cantonese, or your fellow “refugee”?
are these by Chinese people
It could put them in danger if they posted it, we shouldn’t encourage that
Is the situation that dire that a comment like that would put their safety in jeopardy? Genuinely curious
It is not “say gay and go to jail” kind of situation, but LGBTQ community are actively being marginalized, and any form of promotion and organization are likely not paint the participants in favorable light.
One thing that might surprise the west (like the income and cost of living in China) is that Chinese policies are seldom delivered by a publicly avaliable written order, making it hard to find concrete proofs of government wrong doing. This give rises to the word “喝茶” (drink tea), typically means to pressure certain group or individual into submission without a formal procedure or record.
This culture of doing things “under the table” and several crackdown on investigative journalism has led to many inconclusive proof of wrongdoing and some misconception by many people from the west.
However, there are still plenty of evidence that many LGBTQ organizations are forsed to shutdown, non-heteralsexual couple not recieving appropriate benefit, and harassment from officials. Just to list a few,
- LGBTQ society forced to shutdown in top universities: https://bpr.studentorg.berkeley.edu/2022/04/17/the-silenced-lgbtq-students-in-china/
- LGBTQ advocacy group and safe spaces force to shutdown: https://www.thepinknews.com/2021/11/06/china-lgbt-advocacy-government-crackdown/ and https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-beijing-lgbt-center-rcna85528
- Wechat and Weibo mass removal of LGBTQ account: https://www.thepinknews.com/2021/07/07/wechat-lgbt-accounts/ and https://chinadigitaltimes.net/2021/07/netizen-voices-lgbt-groups-metoo-activist-shut-down-by-wechat-weibo/?amp
- TV and video game ban: https://www.thepinknews.com/2021/10/02/china-video-games-gay-effeminate-men-ban/ and https://www.thepinknews.com/2021/09/03/china-masculinity-sissy-men-tv/
- Chinese non-heteralsexual couple required to list each other as “guardian” to recieve basic benefit: https://www.thepinknews.com/2019/08/06/same-sex-couples-china-name-legal-guardians/
- China public hospital conducts LGBTQ conversion therapy, also requires conversion therapy before gender affirming treatment: https://chinadigitaltimes.net/2017/11/hrw-urges-china-end-sexual-orientation-conversion-therapy/?amp
- Weaponizes regulation against LGBTQ societies: https://theconversation.com/the-chinese-government-claims-lgbtq-people-are-protected-from-discrimination-our-interviews-with-26-activists-tell-another-story-215158
- Restriction on LGBTQ dating app: https://www.scmp.com/tech/big-tech/article/3189767/founder-blued-chinas-largest-gay-dating-app-steps-down-after
https://www.thepinknews.com/2021/09/03/china-masculinity-sissy-men-tv/
Talks about more than just the tv ban
Not the worst place, you can apply for someone to be your legal guardian as a way to get around same sex marriage
But there are also no protections
Yes, you are right, sorry for not considerring that.
How? They already posted it to a site that is almost definitely monitored by the CCP.
You should really use /s, almost missed it.
Crazy thought: What if both platforms are bad?
Man on floating whale corpse: “Your boat stinks!”
Man on burning garbage scow: “What?”
At least the whale is biodegradable!
On a long enough timeline, almost everything is biodegradable ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)
Just need…like, 27 or 30 million years. Shod be fine.
If you cannot host it, you cannot own it. If you cannot own it, it’s not resistant to censorship.
Well clearly Elon has demonstrated that ownership does not resist one’s own censorship either… Almost like we need something that nobody fully owns…
Or that everybody owns. The means of information distribution and the means of production should be completely in the hands of the people.
Yes, that’s exactly what I meant. If everybody “owns” it, then nobody fully “owns” it.
Just putting a fine point on it.
Yeah, their censorship is cruel and tragic.
But our censorship is cheeky and fun.
/s because unfortunately it’s necessary
Chinese shenanigans
Has Lemmy just been completely flooded with CCP apologists now?
RedNote ToS includes provisions that require you to post “correct views on history, nationality, state, or culture”.
I guess if you believe Taiwan should be “returned” to the mainland, Uhghurs deserve to be “re-educated” and enslaved, and that China is the natural and rightful pre-eminant global power… you’re gonna be fine.
I took it as “don’t pretend we don’t have censorship too”
Saying “there is censorship here” in no way implies “there is not censorship there”
But wtf? Censorship isn’t when someone prevents unhinged personal attacks? Why is “free speech” not the ability to report on corruption, but now about being able to use hate speech and shit? It’s never been the case and not hard to differentiate between them
It’s false equivalence though, although with the election of shadow president Musk it’s getting a bit more hazy.
Even so, one is an (admittedly hugely influential) private company and the other is the actual single-party government dictating what speech is allowed.
one is an (admittedly hugely influential) private company and the other is the actual single-party government
The US has been governed by public-private partnerships for centuries. Trying to draw a line between the industry administrators that get promoted into every crevice of public sector bureaucracy and the elected politicians who depart office to serve as lobbyists and board members of private firms is a fool’s errand.
Do we celebrate Chris Dodd the Senator and denounce Chris Dodd the chairman of and chief lobbyist for the MPAA? Do we applaud Hank Paulson the Treasury Secretary and denounce Hank Paulson the CEO of Goldman Sachs?
Americans seem to have no trouble drawing a straight line between Singapore-incorporated ByteDance and the Chinese Communist Party. Why can’t they see the connection between Howard Lutnick or Linda McMahon or Betsy DeVos or Elaine Chao and the businesses they own and operate?
Hey you’ll get no argument from me. I’m on Lemmy for a reason. But it’s still not the same as just straight up “the government decides what is thoughtcrime”
“the government decides what is thoughtcrime”
the owner class decides and they control both the corporation and the state.
You find this arrangement superior to Chinaman daddy model… which is fine, that is your opinion. But at the end of day, there is no much difference beyond who gets oppressed and for what reason.
You are appear to accept economic oppression as preferable because chinaman bad.
I think I’m about done here. This is why no one likes spaces like Lemmy. The absolutely condescending “Unlike you I understand the world, but you’re entitled to your worthless little opinion of course”. Holy hell. Not to mention the repeated casual racism which I’m guessing you’re trying to project on me? Try to do better dude.
When all of the companies do it and they do as they are told by daddy Sam… What is the difference.
The only difference I see is that they don’t send you to gulag in US unless you really make some dear leader life uncomfortable.
Americans still do a lot of self censorship. Anything Israel related gets modded into shot on normie socials.
Luigi is prolly best example… They are suppressing that across all media, fake news and social… How is this different from shepoohs bullshit?
I’m not defending the bad things our government does. But do we see mass arrests of people wearing Luigi shirts? Will you be denied a passport as a result of posting some critical message on social media? I had friends, very average unimportant people, who were detained for days at a Chinese airport for having a social media history showing support for Taiwan. It’s not the same thing.
We have several prisoners at Guantanamo with absolutely no tangible connection to terrorist organizations. They have been there for 20 years in some cases and have no release or court date scheduled.
Again I’m not trying to defend that bad things our governments do. And Guantanamo is an especially egregious example, I agree. But Guantanamo is something exceptional, not the norm. How many inmates does Guantanamo have? You can look it up, it’s public information. You can protest it, you can vote for politicians that agree it should be closed. And yes it’s not as easy as that but it can be done.
But now try to stage a public protest against the treatments of Uygurs in Beijing. Try to get details about the people imprisoned there or the conditions they live under. Hell try to find out what happened to your disappeared relatives.
The difference is one is at least paying lip service to ideas like rule of law and democracy, even though at times it breaks its own rules. The other says rule of law is irrelevant.
But Guantanamo is something exceptional, not the norm.
orly?
Is that why US either highest or second highest prison population?
You have been providing very naive, regime sanctioned talking points. You don’t do any critical analysis of the conditions imposed.
Nobody disputing that US provides limited freedom of assembly. But it does not make US some how superior when they are still oppressing the population. You don’t appear to recognize the economic oppression being “as bad” as whatever shepooh does to his property?
Is economic oppression and bureaucratic murder of the population supposed to be some how morally superior?
Us has largest prison population in the world?
Capitalist regimes targets people differently but the function of the oppression is the same.
Yeah oppression is universal to some extent. But there’s a big difference between a government that says “everyone is equal before the law” but which sometimes breaks those rules and a country that says “the law is what we say it is”
Which one functions better as a whole, given our current social problems, I don’t know. But from a personal point of view I’m very happy to live and have grown up somewhere relatively free.
But from a personal point of view I’m very happy to live and have grown up somewhere relatively free.
Everyone says this until their targeted…
This is essentially the logic first they came for the communists… I was not a communist…
The modern regime know not to push it too far, generally that’s just bad business but they always need some marginalized group to oppress for the performative purposes to remind the plebs who got the monopoly on violence. And gen pop accepts it as “ohh well, they do it to black people etc, at least it won’t me, carry one”
At the core us and Chinese pedons behave the same with the same excuses for why their daddy is good, other daddy is bad.
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Lmao yes, have you not been spending much time on here? The second biggest instance is run by tankies
Let’s just say I roll with the stricter, more traditional definition of “tankie” not the current definition which is much closer to “people I disagree with”
Yes, I’ll take my downvote now sir.
Then you can go and browse through it and see how their moderators and admins ban and censor people who call out their genocide denial. I’m aware of the euphemism treadmill but I really do mean what I say.
What about your genocide denial?
I’m of the firm belief that everyone denies genocide, they are just selective about which ones they choose to deny and which ones they choose to be Very Very Upset about online.
Uhhh, I don’t know what genocides you think I’m in the closet about lol, anyone who thinks Israel hasn’t been committing genocide is insane and the US has been disgustingly complicit in it. It’s not hard to see
anyone who thinks Israel hasn’t been committing genocide is insane
Completely agree 100%
The difference is that while you focus all your outrage on Israel’s genocide other genocides, both figuratively and literally, still exist.
Why do you choose to ignore/deny/de-prioritize those ones? Serious question.
Yes, been that way from the start and is made by them.
Mostly no (I hope), we’re just laughing at americans literally not being able to read anything soaked with propaganda and switching from one source to another.
Ccp apologists can suck Winnies dick
we’re just laughing at americans literally not being able to read anything soaked with propaganda
All Americans? Everything they read?
RedNote ToS includes provisions that require you to post "correct views on history, nationality, state, or culture
Tankies got all their canned responses with links to do their every chance they get. I wonder if there is a central repository for this
I think they just post the same stuff over and over. It’s like quoting Bible verses - they’re trying to prove it to themselves.
I wonder if there is a central repository for this
Perhaps in a little red book.
RedNote ToS includes provisions that require you to post “correct views on history, nationality, state, or culture”.
Damn that private company implementing Terms of Service to limit discourse to historically accurate topics of conversation. Now I’ll never get Wuhan Lableak blurbs and weird religious propaganda injected into my video feed.
I guess if you believe Taiwan should be “returned” to the mainland, Uhghurs deserve to be “re-educated” and enslaved, and that China is the natural and rightful pre-eminant global power…
I mean, what gives the US the right to encircle Taiwan with its Navy? Why were we so fervent in defending the right of Afghani teenager girls to obtain an education, but so cavalier in denying it to Uighur girls threatened by the same Islamic radicalism just on the other side of the Afghan/China border? How do we have US Senators and CENTCOM chiefs debating the best method for severing Chinese exports from the international markets, while asserting the threat of Chinese global supremacy?
It’s all upsidedown and backwards in America-World. If you want to talk about Chinese global hegemony, consider the methods at their disposal. To quote Dr Lubinda Haabazoka, Director of the University of Zambia Graduate School of Business and former President of the Economics Association of Zambia
Every time China visits we get a hospital, every time Britain visits we get a lecture.
Found the China zealot. Do you get paid or is this just for the love of the party?
I stack my Renminbi in one closet and my SorosBux in another.
But what do you do with the ZuckBucks?
I keep them in my back pocke… glances down at non-existent legs OH NO!
Sound like you don’t have a leg to stand on. Maybe MuskBucks are the answer here.
It’s “correct views on history, nationality, state, or culture” as according to the CCP. Imagine an American company with that clause, but those “correct views” were as according to the US government. You would be against that, yeah? Imagine getting your comment removed because you question the US’s authority
You’re just describing Reddit.
Yeah I love how reddit banned /r/Sino
Oh wait, they didn’t. They actually allow their users to criticize their government
I’m curious what that has to do with kowtowing to the US government. I think I provided a pretty good example of proof that Reddit doesn’t moderate based on what their government says is true
I think I provided a pretty good example of proof
:-/
that pic of the woman saying Dumb NWORD , followed up by a rebuttal Dumb Cracker (the latter was taken down by admins) tells you all you need to know about elon musk
I mean it is funny, but there’s a chasm between government censorship and whatever xitter is doing.
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Consequences of a social network being authoritarian are limited to the platform and, therefore, not a big deal. Whatever effects it has, leaving is simple. Authoritarian government regulates all public spaces. The consequences are life ending, and leaving (emigrating) is often one of the most difficult journeys a person will take on.
The insults are not required. Whatever creed you think you’re defending, not a good look sweetie.
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That’s not a tip, love. That’s a leading question. Making a 100 bait comments an hour is easier than constructing one coherent one, I’d still recommend the latter. More satisfying 😛
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I don’t get it?
And this here is the exact reason im on lemmy.
Lemmy.ml: Comment removed for rule 1. Banned from all communities.
I knew someone would mention it but on lemmy if youre banned from one instance you can just use the other 200 instances
Aye of course, just poking fun that it’s not always free from the same bullshit here too!
Don’t pretend we’re free to post literally anythere here, either. There’s rules.
Its kind of a choose which rules you want. You have to agree with the hivemind but you can choose which one. At least this exposes the communities to each other to mix ideas. While i hate .ml they do have some stuff that is good.
different instances have different rules,there are instances that are more homophobic and others that are more lgbtq. instances can choose to federate or not with other instances, however those instances that most disagree with will still exist.
Should we be making a large effort to spread the word of better options to people? I feel like the discoverability of social networks (like this one) has gone way down, and a lot of people would like somewhere to doomscroll that isn’t shit, but just aren’t aware of other places/apps.
Certainly may not help that setting up LemmyWorld on my phone involved a pinned website app, something I’m guessing a lot of people haven’t done before.
Were you an early adopter of Lemmy? I’ve been using it since the API changes on Reddit broke Reddit is fun, and Connect for Lemmy was a drop in replacement off the play store
Well, that’s how “biased free speech” works.
I mean you should do it but not out of spite, or to be hurtful, but to give people the freedom to choose.
And to do that, they need to know what their government was up to.
But he wasn’t banned. even had 120,000 likes.
In Rednote, Could try to support 李文亮，阮晓寰，彭立发，魏京生，刘晓波，王志安，赵紫阳，胡耀邦，陆以恒，郝海东 etc look what happened.
Even support to Ukraine and use Flag of Ukraine.
-10000000 social credit score
There has been a widespread misconception that China operates a nationwide and unitary social credit “score” based on individuals’ behavior, leading to punishments if the score is too low. Media reports in the West have sometimes exaggerated or inaccurately described this concept.
Don’t live in English world,
上海市第一中级人民法院 (From Shanghai First Intermediate People’s Court):
被限制消费的对象不得有以下行为：
1.乘坐交通工具时，选择飞机、列车软卧、轮船二等以上舱位；
2.在星级以上宾馆、酒店、夜总会、高尔夫球场等场所进行高消费；
3.购买不动产或者新建、扩建、高档装修房屋；
4.租赁高档写字楼、宾馆、公寓等场所办公；
5.购买非经营必需车辆；
6.旅游、度假；
7.子女就读高收费私立学校；
8支付高额保费购买保险理财产品；
9.乘坐G字头动车组列车全部座位、其他动车组列车一等以上座位等其他非生活和工作必需的消费行为。
deepl:
The subject of the spending restriction must not engage in the following behaviors:
-
Choosing airplanes, soft sleepers on trains, or second-class or higher cabins on ships when taking transportation;
-
High consumption in hotels, guest houses, nightclubs, golf courses and other places with star rating or above;
-
Purchasing real estate or building new, expanded or high-grade renovated houses;
-
Renting offices in high-grade office buildings, hotels, apartments and other places;
-
Purchase of non-business-essential cars;
-
Tourism, vacation;
-
Children studying in high-fee private schools;
8 Paying high premiums for insurance and financial products;
- Taking all the seats of G trains, first-class or higher seats of other trains, and other consumption behaviors that are not necessary for life and work.
https://www.a-court.gov.cn/xxfb/no1court_412/docs/202305/d_3946003.html
-
Twitter’s CEO just violated their own TOS because he’s a butt hurt little baby about people finding out he only tells lies.
There is nothing in China that will ever harm you as much as the American Government does. Ever.
But keep giving your info to the NSA, I’m sure they’re good people with good intentions. Surely.
Westerners acting like they give a shit about the Uyghurs while they spent the last 20+ years bombing the ME and supporting a genocide against the Palestinians is just the tip of their hypocrisy.
Here’s a crazy thought: maybe all genocides are bad.
I bet you scream all lives matter at blm protestors.
All genocides are bad
“Wow you must be some sort of racist”
???
All lives matter.
All dogs go to heaven
“He started a sentence with ‘all’!”
I’m not American, but I am very much a Westerner.
I can protest my government’s shitty politics. I can vote in politicians that amplify the message. I can donate to politicians in other jurisdictions than mine that have good politics. MPs and MEPs that represent me and people who think like me have taken brave stances, have thrown wrenches, have done what they could. One day, just like we stopped South African Apartheid, we WILL stop Israeli Apartheid, and you can shove your cynicism up yours.
Are Chinese citizens allowed to do ANY of that?
You know this guy is gonna say they are allowed to, and choose not to because they love their government sooo much. Kind of like how the people of Germany loved Hitler so much that 99.3% of them voted for him in his last election.
well then they’re complicit rather than just censored
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Never knew denying reality was cherry flavoured.
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I would be really interested in seeing this research you are talking about and anything to corroborate your personal anecdote.
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You’re making a lot of assumptions about me, all I asked for is evidence to back your claims. I don’t know shit about China. Your story just reads to me like a “and then everybody clapped” kind of situation where we write off the chinese as racist and unwilling to fight their oppressors because of how racist they are, and terminate all further thought because we read a compelling story about some guy that did a college report one time and was approached by five mainland chinese that just happened to all be in the same class with him and have all this secret knowledge that nobody is allowed to talk about even though its true and everybody knows it’s happening and everybody agrees with it.
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Aren’t you the guy i explained to that racists refer to the Chinese as yellow?
ok, but are the Chinese colored skin?
that’s what I’m confused about.
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All that research and you still don’t even know how to spell a lot correctly.
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Troll account whines about troll account
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You do understand that daddy sam being evil empire doesn’t excuse chinaman from being an oppressive regime?
You understand that your bully acting like they care about how another bully treats their victims might be… perturbing though right?
Like obviously neither bully is justified. But the hypocrisy of it all might feel like rubbing salt in the wound.
Even more so when that wound is actually your dead friends and family… from all the bombs…
US regime is special in that way they are like the good liberal, they got the money and the guilt.
But at national level it work: I do genocide but I also criticize others for doing genocide
