• Rose@slrpnk.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    66
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    4 days ago

    I didn’t know that this is the perfect way to enjoy memes. Posted to Twitter, screenshotted, discussed further in Tumblr, printed out, faxed, scanned, and then posted to Lemmy.

  • ace_of_based@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    28
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    4 days ago

    Some dorks in this thread are the perfect example of who potential protesters need to ignore.

    I brought up “truckers blocking highways and important intersections” to my very good (but desperately clueless) friend. Violence free, requires few bodies, historically effective.

    He said “but what about the people they inconvenience?”

    I’m like dude. Inconvenience to power is. the. point.

    I love him but he’s a fool, guy thinks protests are people smiling and holding clever signs.

    Sad thing is he’s representative of a lot of people.

    They’ll be happy when things are better but idgaf about asking their advice. They don’t read history, the closest theyll get to a protest is the news coverage, and they’ll never be satisfied with less than some impossible dream of a “immaculate conception protestation”

    So like, fuck em

    • TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      11
      ·
      4 days ago

      Not to sound elitist, but most people are ill-informed from what I observed. They mean well, but they form their views and opinions from sources that aren’t great. It doesn’t help either that we are inundated by pleasures from all sorts of media, which distracts us from paying attention to what matters more.

  • Zagorath@aussie.zone
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    48
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    4 days ago

    I can understand that people don’t like riots.

    What really shits me is when people are opposed to completely non-violent disruptive protests. Street marches, die-ins, gluing yourself to statues, throwing non-destructive liquids onto monuments, etc. If you put your mild inconvenience or sense of propriety ahead of a cause, that’s clearly not a cause you believe in, so stop blaming the protestors for your lack of support.

    • Zoboomafoo@slrpnk.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      37
      ·
      edit-2
      4 days ago

      Not all protest is good protest. Criticizing the form of protests is valid.

      Block a random highway and all you’re going to do is get people mad at your cause for making them late for work. Those people could be future allies that are getting driven away.

      What’s a more effective protest, people holding signs handing out cookies, or people holding signs squirting passersby with water pistols?

      • bane_killgrind@slrpnk.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        31
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        4 days ago

        The point of protests is to make the issue more palatable to deal with than the protests.

        Being completely demure and effecting nobody is a bad protest. Make the consequences measurable.

        • Gigasser@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          10
          ·
          4 days ago

          I often think that when people talk about peaceful protest, they use the broadness and ambiguity of the word “”“peaceful”“” to clamp down on any actual protest. The civil rights movement was non-violent, and if non-violence is your standard for peaceful, than it’s peaceful. Conservatives however see anything illegal happening in a protest, and even though there was lack of violence, will say “they did something illegal, therefore it isn’t peaceful”. Civil disobedience, that is illegally not following an unjust law, must be practiced for non-violent protest to be effective. Over the years conservatives have managed to make it seem as if the civil rights movement won by just passively picketing buildings.

          By the way, It’s a matter of semantics sure, but sometimes, semantics can be very important, especially if you want to make a very specific point.

        • HighFructoseLowStand@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          5
          ·
          4 days ago

          Pissing people off does not make your cause palatable. Especially when there is no obvious correlation between what you’re doing to piss them off and the goal you mean to achieve.

              • Croquette@sh.itjust.works
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                3 days ago

                By Inconveniencing people, there is a fighting chance to break the status quo.

                Inconvenience force people to take a stance for or against, and a movement can start.

                History has shown that over and over, and any person arguing against that is simply ill informed.

                Thus my comment that you wear your name well. The junk food of a stand.

                • HighFructoseLowStand@lemm.ee
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  3 days ago

                  Ruining a piece of art does not force people to do something about Global Warming. The reason everyone shits on activist types is because these stunts are clearly cries for attention and the supposed cause is just an excuse for college kids whose parents gave them money instead of love.

        • Zoboomafoo@slrpnk.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          20
          ·
          4 days ago

          I’m not saying effect nobody, I’m saying that the right people need to be effected. Effect the wrong people and you just make enemies.

          • bane_killgrind@slrpnk.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            22
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            4 days ago

            Sorry when you can get criminally charged for trespass, the “right people” can buy themselves a big moat of real estate to insulate from protests. Sometimes the people they work with, services, and customers need to be inconvenienced.

            If you can’t empathise with people protesting, and you just get angry at them, maybe do some self reflection on why you can’t look at the bigger picture and not take things personally.

            • Zoboomafoo@slrpnk.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              12
              ·
              4 days ago

              Sometimes the people they work with, services, and customers need to be inconvenienced.

              Thats what I’m advocating for. Targeted disruption is necessary. Indiscriminate disruption is harmful to a cause.

              If your cause is so just that random people automatically empathize with your protestors as soon as they are aware of the protestors, no matter how much the protestors make their day worse, then what’s the point of disruption?

              Clearly they’re just waiting to be made aware of your cause, just say hi and they’ll join you. You’ve already won, go forth and make changes with your broad support of the population.

              • bane_killgrind@slrpnk.net
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                11
                ·
                4 days ago

                Ok let me expand that list

                the people they work with, services, and customers, their neighbors, the people in their voting district, the people in their country, the people in trading partner countries need to be inconvenienced

                Sometimes you need to put pressure progressively up the chain into more wide reaching efforts. It’s not like a highway blockade is day 1, other things were tried and ignored.

              • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                11
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                4 days ago

                what’s the point of disruption?

                To force people ignoring the issue to engage with it. People who are fine with status quo and ignoring the issue now have to deal with it. Either they’re going to be people who agree to some degree with the protestors and will be more voices saying “just give them what they want FFS so this distribution can end” or they oppose the protestors at which point why would the protestors be upset that they have been disrupted?

              • Zagorath@aussie.zone
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                11
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                4 days ago

                You do realise that you’re literally being the person that’s being made fun of in the OP, right? Do you think the suffragettes, the anti-apartheid campaigners, or American civil rights campaigners never impacted anyone other than those with direct power to fix things? As Martin Luther King Jr said:

                I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizens Councilor or the Ku Klux Klanner but the White moderate who is more devoted to ‘order’ than to justice.

                • Zoboomafoo@slrpnk.net
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  arrow-down
                  10
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  4 days ago

                  People love trotting that quote out, don’t they? They hide behind it, defending their ineffective protests and their unwillingness to improve. Any criticism and here we go, it’s time to blame “the White moderate”.

                  They think that gay rights started and ended with the Stonewall riots, ignoring how veterans of the Civil Rights movement taught the gays when and how to protest effectively. Protesting is a skill, and ignorance of that skill harms the cause.

          • Jax@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            6
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            4 days ago

            Sorry, no.

            Our enemies have been consolidating power and influence for over 40 years. We do not have the time to nicely convince everyone that ‘our side has cookies’

            It is either get with it or get the fuck out of the way. Anyone with a brain recognizes that fact.

            • Zoboomafoo@slrpnk.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              8
              ·
              edit-2
              4 days ago

              So you think squirting people with water pistols is more effective? It was an either/or question.

              Or maybe a different, historical hypothesis?

              You’re a Roman Senator, trying to gain support for election. Do you

              a) give bread to plebians with your name carved into the crust or

              b) have your personal guard beat anyone that doesn’t promise to vote for you?

              • bane_killgrind@slrpnk.net
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                7
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                4 days ago

                Historically uhhh b

                Voter intimidation was such a problem that it led to the invention of the secret ballot.

                So yes, violence is more effective.

                Inconveniences like being stuck in traffic are not violence. Grow up.

                • Croquette@sh.itjust.works
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  5
                  ·
                  3 days ago

                  Butbutntu turnrurntjrbbut but I will be stuck in traffic!?! Did you think about me when making your comment?

      • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        ·
        4 days ago

        What’s a more effective protest, people holding signs handing out cookies, or people holding signs squirting passersby with water pistols?

        Really depends on how hot it is outside

  • If you feel:

    ☑️ So empty

    ☑️ So used up

    ☑️ So let down

    ☑️ So angry

    ☑️ So ripped off

    ☑️ So stepped on

    ☑️ So filthy

    ☑️ So dirty

    ☑️ So fucked up

    ☑️ So walked on

    ☑️ So painful

    ☑️ So pissed off

    You’re not the only one, so let’s start a riot!

    • farngis_mcgiles@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      4 days ago

      People are dying from treatable or preventable illness, suffering from homelessness, and suffering from food insecurity. These are all forms of violence.

  • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    29
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    4 days ago

    During the lifetime of great revolutionaries, the oppressing classes constantly hounded them, received their theories with the most savage malice, the most furious hatred and the most unscrupulous campaigns of lies and slander. After their death, attempts are made to convert them into harmless icons, to canonize them, so to say, and to hallow their names to a certain extent for the “consolation” of the oppressed classes and with the object of duping the latter, while at the same time robbing the revolutionary theory of its substance, blunting its revolutionary edge and vulgarizing it.

    • BeNotAfraid@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      17
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      4 days ago

      Well Yeah, have you seen the Bob Marley Biopic? Whitewashing is precisely why his music is seen as stoner-feel-good-vibes and not the fiery protest music it was. He’s closer to the Black Panthers then he ever was to Cheech and Chong. But that’s not the reality they want you to accept.

      • merc@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        4 days ago

        Whitewashing is precisely why his music is seen as stoner-feel-good-vibes and not the fiery protest music it was.

        Well, I’d say that has more to do with music sensibility. His music used slow tempo, heavy and steady beats, was bass-driven, and melodic vocals. That isn’t angry music for a western audience. Going back centuries, angry western music is fast paced, unsteady rhythms, big changes in volume, discordant sounds and lots of high frequencies.

        It’s not whitewashing. It would be very hard to make an angry protest song set to a waltz beat too. The medium is the message, and the medium of steady droning beats is calmness not anger.

        • BeNotAfraid@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          3 days ago

          That sure sounds convincing for made up nonsense based on your preconceived feelings about nothing substantive at all. Fortunately, I actually have a Bachelors (hons) in Music. A sizeable amount of which involved sitting through 4 years of lectures on Music and Western Civilization, covering roughly 4000 years of Western Musical History. So, I can speak fairly competently with a fair amount of detail about this. A Waltz is dance, when I say that, I mean it belongs to the genre of “dance music.” As in, that was what it’s function was originally. As a dance when you think of a waltz you’re probably thinking of ballroom dancing, which would be the Viennese Waltz. Which is where people without a formal education in music history think the Western Art Music, or WAM (see “High Art”, “Aristocratic”, “Snob”, “Wealthy Elite”) hegemony of White, Germanic, Male cultural dominance begins. This is in no small part because traditional Western Musical Canon has been heavily and selectively codified to be such. East of Germany and Britain gets the worst shake in The Classical Period, in my personal opinion. Opera is huge and obviously, Italy is massively important to the tradition. However, Opera is taught as it’s own separate thing, because the tradition of Opera spans Pre-Medieval Music, through The Enlightenment, Classical Period, Romanticism, Modernism, Post-Modernism and beyond. It is both “Music” and “Theatre” but it is not “Musical Theatre.” Musical Theatre is a true American art-form, emerging from Vaudeville. (4000 years is a long fuckin’ time and I never get to flex on people like this, anyway, back on track). In terms of WAM a layperson’s idea of a Waltz is, conceptually, Chamber Music. It’s all hoity toity ball gowns and bowties and German Tradition, German Tradition, German Tradition. It goes to show you how successful the homogenisation (exclusion of the history and influence of Mediterranean, Balkan, Celtic and Briton music. Despite their obvious connections) of European musical history actually was. Probably one of the most visible cliche’s people get exposed to in media is the “grand ballroom meme.” Think protagonist opening up the Ballroom Doors during a waltz and couples dance in perfect circular unison, maybe they all suddenly stop for comedic effect. Or, camped above the festivities, maybe there’s a sweeping overhead shot showing the Dancing in Unison and it’s always Swan Lake, or The Nutcracker, which were never danced to at a ball like that, ever because they are Ballets performed by Orchestras and NOT chamber music by a fucking viennese String ensembel.

          Half of the instruments in those pieces didn’t fucking exist at the time. That’s because movie and film producers know fuck all about musical history which is why people have these misconceptions. In actuality The Waltz, or as it is known in and throughout Europe for many hundreds of years prior “Volte” (lots of variation of spelling), or “slide dance” is a type of dance in 3/4 time with emphasis on certain beats accentuated, or shortened. (N.B. You acttually confuse Beat, Time Signature, Rhythm and Tempo in your comment. By referring to aspects of each of them incorrectly, but this is a history lesson. Not a lesson on music fundamentals). There are tonnes of examples of waltzes which are sinister, macabre or that conjure feelings of anger and despair in the Tradition of Western Art Music. Jean Sibelius’ Waltz Triste, Saint-Saens Danse Macabre. Fuck, if you Google “Angry Waltz”, you get some dude’s school composition project call “Angry Waltz” which is actually not a bad example. If you want to step out of Art Music for a look into folk Music, Norwegian Folk Music has 3/4 dances, waltzes, called Springar which are dances with region specific stress patterns. I know you’ve never listened to someone perform using a Hardingfele, but Springar are not slow and folk dancing can be very fast paced and are inherently a-harmonic at times. Very harsh to listen to if you’ve never been immersed in that musical space. We can even talk about The Waltz as protest music. Look no further than Shostakovich, basically everything he wrote under Stalinism put his life in mortal danger. He would outright flout what Stalin imposed on Composers and the wider Soviet Artistic community. Sometimes he would comply maliciously, just to walk the thin line with Stalin’s ego. If not for his massive cultural import and popularity (he was a genius) he would have been murdered and he knew this. Being an authoritarian government, any art Stalin did not like was grounds for immediate execution of them and their families, or forced labour, or banishment and starvation. Waltz No. 2 from Suite for Jazz Orchestra 2, I know you will know and I want to impress upon you. That the sheer, ungodly weight, of the fear Dmitri Shostakovich lived with everyday under Stalin was absolutely dwarfed by the planetary mass of the balls it took to write music like this under Stalinism. This is slow, nuanced and deeply defiant, most importantly it was protest music under the guise of Nationalism.

          Expanding on this, I think you have no fucking concept of what protest music is. Bob Dylan’s Desolation Row is Protest Music, Jimmy Hendrix covering The Star Spangled Banner is protest music. For fuck’s sake my guy Listen to the WORDS of what is being said in these songs. Have you heard For What it’s Worth by Buffalo Springfield lately? It sounds like it was written about America Yesterday. Literally, listen to that song in the context of the Trump regime and Luigi Mangione. I don’t understand why Buffalo Springfield isn’t being blasted EVERYWHERE in the USA right now. Joni Mitchell’s Big Yellow Taxi is protest music, Green Day’s American Idiot is Protest Music.

          His music used slow tempo, heavy and steady beats, was bass-driven, and melodic vocals.

          Swap vocal for strings and you’ve just described Prokofiev’s Dance of the Knights to a tee. Does that Sound Angry and Western enough to meet your standard of protest music? It isn’t protest music.

          It’s not whitewashing.

          It is Whitewashing, it is absolutely egregious whitewashing. Bob Marley was an extremely important political figure, Legend and the Bob Marley Biopic are designed to appeal to white audiences. This is taken from the wikipedia page:

          "Despite its generally positive reception, Legend has been criticized for being a deliberately inoffensive selection of Marley’s less political music, shorn of any radicalism that might damage sales.[25] In 2014 in the Phoenix New Times, David Accomazzo wrote “Dave Robinson, who constructed the tracklist for Legend, [said that] the tracklist for Legend deliberately was designed to appeal to white audiences. Island Records had viewed Marley as a political revolutionary, and Robinson saw this perspective as damaging to Marley’s bottom line. So he constructed a greatest-hits album that showed just one face of the Marley prism, the side he deemed most sellable to the suburbs. […] If you’re looking for mass-market appeal to secular-progressive America, you don’t include songs that invoke collective guilt over the slave trade, nor do you address the inconvenient truth that the bucolic Jamaican lifestyle of reggae, sandy beaches, and marijuana embraced by millions of college freshmen, exists only because of the brutal slave trade. […] the songs on Legend offer just a brief glimpse into his music. The definitive album of the most important reggae singer of all time is a hodgepodge collection of love songs, feel-good sentiment, and mere hints of the fiery activist whose politics drew bullets in the '70s.”[26] Vivien Goldman wrote in 2015, “when he does get played on the radio now, it’s the mellow songs, not the angry songs, that get heard – the ones that have been compiled on albums such as Legend.”

          The Medium is The Message

          YOU are full of crap

          Going back centuries, angry western music is fast paced, unsteady rhythms, big changes in volume, discordant sounds and lots of high frequencies.

          You have no fucking idea what you’re saying, you’re just stating what you think might be true based on how you feel and you just described The Build up and Drop to Bangarang by Skrillex.

          Well, I’d say that has more to do with music sensibility. His music used slow tempo, heavy and steady beats, was bass-driven, and melodic vocals.

          Translation: “I have never heard, or engaged with, any of Bob Marley, The Wailers, or Peter Tosh’s music, outside of The Legend track list verbatim and I did not understand the lyrics of those I did hear.”

          That isn’t angry music for a western audience.

          Reggae IS Western Music, resulting from the SLAVE TRADE you absolute TIT! Have you never listened to reggae?

          It’d be nice if someone gets something out of reading this, I really enjoyed thinking about music academically for a while and I hope no one ever listens to this person as an authority about any aspect of musical history, the slave trade, musical theory ever again.

          TL;DR In short literally, nothing you said was correct and it was so egregiously, offensively wrong, that I was inspired to write this. As a dude with an education and 4ft long dreadlocks, up yours.

          • merc@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            4 days ago

            Wow, man, you sound so angry! I can feel the anger from here! It’s coming off you like… like… like the slow and steady, groovy sound of a reggae tune!

            • BeNotAfraid@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              3 days ago

              Well, I actually quite enjoy discussing Musicology in detail. I would be remit in pretending it isn’t satisfying to dress you down like that. True, most academics usually get offended when someone who’s never opened a book about a subject, make wildly inaccurate statements about their field of study and tell them their wrong. It’s more about about making sure anyone who stumbles upon this thread never mistakes your confidently incorrect statements as evidence to support a broader narrative based on lies, manufactured by the cultural hegemony of white, corporate, post-capitalist America. You’re free to go back to being wrong now.

  • Liz@midwest.social
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    13
    ·
    4 days ago

    “Why Civil Resistance Works” is a good book about why civil disobedience is the most effective means of resisting a regime. It’s not an easy read, but it’s still great info.

  • Tartas1995@discuss.tchncs.de
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    13
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    4 days ago

    Until now, whenever I point out that any and all societies are fundamentals based on the capacity of violence, people got uncomfortable and/or denied it.

    Sweeties, people got murdered so that you could have a democracy* because that gives the power to the people** as they have the most capacity of violence, so they need to be appeased.

    Sidenote: the eu, the UN and so on are also existing to appease enough of us to reduce violence as it is a shared interest.

  • Tattorack@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    15
    arrow-down
    5
    ·
    4 days ago

    I don’t mind riots, so long as it’s targeted in some way, and not just the random breaking down of privately owned small businesses (which hurts no-one at the top).

    • merc@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      13
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      4 days ago

      Riots are grenades. You don’t get to precisely target what gets broken and what doesn’t.

    • RedditRefugee69@lemmynsfw.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      4 days ago

      A certain percentage of any group doesn’t give a fuck about the movement and just likes being assholes.

      Either rioters police their own or they will be judged as equal to the worst of them, because that’s all people will be shown on TV.

    • jnod4@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      4 days ago

      Hahaha mandem thinks there’s still going to be small businesses in the future