• Pennomi@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    145
    ·
    3 days ago

    We’ve gotten so good at faking most lighting effects that honestly RTX isn’t a huge win except in certain types of scenes.

    • redfellow@sopuli.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      34
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      3 days ago

      The difference is pretty big when there are lots of reflective surfaces, and especially when light sources move (prebaked shadows rarely do, and even when, it’s hardly realistic).

      A big thing is that developers use less effort and the end result looks better. That’s progress. You could argue it’s kind of like when web developers finally were able to stop supporting IE9 - it wasn’t big for end users, but holy hell did the job get more enjoyable, faster and also cheaper.

      • Klear@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        16
        ·
        3 days ago

        Cyberpunk and Control are both great examples - both games are full of reflective surfaces and it shows. Getting a glimpse of my own reflection in a dark office is awesome, as is tracking enemy positions from cover using such reflections.

        • DaTingGoBrrr@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          3 days ago

          I have only ever seen Cyberpunk in 2k res, ultra graphics, ultra widescreen, ray-tracing and good fps at a friend’s house and it does indeed look nice. But in my opinion there are too many reflective surfaces. It’s like they are overdoing the reflectiveness on every object just because they can. They could have done a better job at making it look realistic.

          • faythofdragons@slrpnk.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            10
            ·
            3 days ago

            For any other game, I’d agree, but cyberpunk being full of chrome is an aesthetic that predates the video games by a fair margin, haha.

            • DaTingGoBrrr@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              4
              ·
              2 days ago

              My problem is more with wet surfaces and the likes. Walking around the city it feels like every little water puddle is mirror and a spoon can also reflect way too much. I don’t mind shining chrome body parts.

          • Klear@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            ·
            edit-2
            3 days ago

            Oh, they are definitely intentionally overdoing it since 90% of said reflective surfaces are ads, often reflecting other ads in there. The game is such an assault of advertising that I’ve found myself minding the advertisements in RL public spaces a lot more less.

    • count_dongulus@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      27
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      3 days ago

      But, it takes a lot of work by designers to get the fake lighting to look natural. Raytracing would help avoid that toil if the game is forced RT.

      • ☂️-@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        2 days ago

        thats the same logic behind the really high hardware requirements nowadays.

        studios just wanting to save time and cut corners, and you have to offset that with really expensive cards.

    • Cethin@lemmy.zip
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      3 days ago

      The issues come if you know how they’re faking them. Sure, SSR can look good sometimes, but if you know what it is it becomes really obvious. Meanwhile raytraced reflections can look great always, with the cost of performance usually. It’s sometimes worth it, especially when done intelligently.

    • murvel@feddit.nu
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      6
      ·
      3 days ago

      Not true. Screen space reflections consistently fails to produce accurate reflections.

      • Blackmist@feddit.uk
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        8
        ·
        edit-2
        3 days ago

        Screenspace isn’t the only way to draw reflections without RT. It’s simply the fastest one.

        Most gamers aren’t going to notice, and I can count on one hand the number of games that actually used reflections for anything gameplay related.

        • murvel@feddit.nu
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          3 days ago

          What I’m talking about is drawing accurate reflections and I don’t know any other technique that produces the same accuracy as RT

          • rtxn@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            3 days ago

            Depends on how you define “accurate”. Even full ray tracing is just an approximation based on relatively few light rays (on an order of magnitude that doesn’t even begin to approach reality) that is deemed to be close enough where increasing the simulation complexity doesn’t meaningfully improve visual fidelity, interpolated and passed through a denoising algorithm. You can do close enough with a clever application of light probes, screenspace effects, or using a second camera to render the scene onto a surface (at an appropriate resolution).

            • AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              2 days ago

              That’s true, but after a few frames RT (especially with nvidia’s ray reconstruction) will usually converge to ‘visually indistinguishable from reference’ while light probes and such will really never converge. I think that’s a pretty significant difference.

          • Blackmist@feddit.uk
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            3 days ago

            Reflection probes are one way. Basically a camera drawing a simpler version of the scene from a point into a cubemap. Decent for oddly shaped objects, although if you want a lot of them then you’d bake them and lose any real time changes. A common optimisation is to update them less than once a frame.

            If you have one big flat plane like the sea, you can draw the world from underneath and just use that. GTA V does that (like ten years ago without RT), along with the mirrors inside. You could make that look better by rendering them in higher resolution.

            https://www.adriancourreges.com/blog/2015/11/02/gta-v-graphics-study-part-2/

            Where RT is visibly better is with large odd shaped objects, or enormous amounts of them. I can’t say it’s worth the framerate hit if it takes you below 60fps though.

            • AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              2 days ago

              I haven’t personally played a game that uses more than one dynamic reflection probe at a time. They are pretty expensive, especially if you want them to look high resolution and want the shading in them to look accurate.

      • AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        2 days ago

        There are cases where screen space can resolve a scene perfectly. Rare cases. That also happen to break down if the user can interact with the scene in any way.