Bonus:
The key is, subsistence farming is not small scale. It’s why subsistence farming is often described as extensive farming as opposed to modern intensive farming. Natural yields suck and very very quickly degrade land. About the only real intensive agriculture historically is rice paddies where you’d have large amounts of labor planting and tending individual rice plants for a very large yield by area and to a much lesser extent but still significant terraced potato farms. Everything else used tons of land.
About the only real intensive agriculture historically is rice paddies
Amazonian, Aztec/Maya and some northern American pre colonial people practiced intensive agriculture to support large cities. Crops included corn, beans, squash, cacao, hot peppers, manioc, pineapple, potato, sweet potato, and a lot more.
The general formula is
land × labor = yields
In the west, it was mostly large land and small labor (amount of people, not work per person) in the east, it was mostly large amount of labor and small amount of land. The formula is still in effect, we just enriched the land with synthetic fertilizers and replaced manual labour with mechanized labor in the form of tractors and harvesters and chemical labor in the form of pesticides.
Hm, the Edenicity guy makes the opposite case here that small scale farming is actually quite viable (in the context of the viability of cities being self sufficient by growing their own food in urban areas) due to much increased yields compared to industrial scale farming based on studies referenced by David R. Montgomery, and it seems fairly compelling.
In terms of food production it’s absolutely viable. It’s not economically viable though because farming has extremely low margins that can only be made up at scale.
Also, most modern machinery isn’t useful on a small scale, though there are some exceptions. So small scale farming will be quite labor intensive. So the OP here is kinda right that most people don’t want to put that much labor into it.
This is why I think small-scale robotics is going to be important to future small-scale farming, but we haven’t quite gotten there yet.
At a small scale you can take advantage of advanced irrigation, physical pest barriers, advanced fertilization, and even human or AI based individual plant diagnosis and weeding.
With what money. Cause your not making any selling that stuff and you’re going g to spend the majority of your time tending it leaving out external sources of income. My parents have 5 aces and are currently doing their fourth round attempt at something like this. It doesn’t usually last more than a couple of years before the effort isn’t worth it anymore.
Thank you for that video - it gave me a few interesting articles and a new book for my reading list 😁
And one of the points in that video is there’s a huge difference in the carbon footprints of different types of urban agriculture - actual urban farms make efficient use of resources, whereas home gardens and community gardens don’t.
And even then, those urban farms are not “self sufficient” the way prepper fantasies like this meme promise - they rely on external inputs like fertilizer and building material and irrigation.
Which is, yeah. I love competently designed urban farms. I love competently designed home gardens. The image in my post is neither.
The image in my post is selling a rugged individualist, manifest destiny, pioneers breaking sod in the prairie image of homesteading - the lone smallholder supporting himself and his family solely through the production of his land - which has rarely been true and, when it was, really sucked for the people stuck doing it.
Small scale farming is viable. Rugged individualism is crap.
I’m totally on-board with calling out the rugged ultra self-sufficient individualism, I just didn’t want people to come away with the idea that industrial scale farming is the only viable way to farm based on her second tweet. But you’re absolutely right that home garden’s aren’t the best use of resources though. I’d actually forgotten that section of the video, and only remembered the latter part that I linked to until watching it all the way through again just now.
Glad you also enjoyed the vid! He makes some cool stuff ^^
This seems like an opportunity to cite ‘The Martian’ and estimated crop area of potatoes per person required.
Yes please
Keeping a useless ass lawn is the most American fucking thing lmao
Bigger than the pasture but you gotta mow it lmao.
Lawns are useful as a free area where you can do all kinds of activities like sports, social gatherings, religious ceremonies, an area to build large things, and also just hang out and look at all your plants.
I mean, yeah, but it’s also a pretty central part of this yard plan, so the yard is kind of functioning as a pathway here. If you imagine a bunch of lil paths going in various directions instead of plain grass it doesn’t seem unreasonable.
Yeah I think if you got rid of the lawn and just had narrow paths with everything densely planted with “useful plants” then it would feel less like a homestead and more like a jungle.
What’s wrong with some greenery to frolick around in?
It’s fine but you can’t really play sports or have a picnic or a barbecue or set up a slip n slide or many other fun activities that lawns are good for!
Also a dense jungle of food-bearing plants like tomatoes is highly susceptible to disease. Tomatoes need a lot of airflow to keep their leaves dry so they don’t develop powdery mildew.
if you’re subsistence farming you won’t have time for slip n slides
Maybe if you’re using 18th century farming technology. In the modern day we have things like drip irrigation and tractors. Even a 1940s tractor is more than enough for a 1 acre plot.
that increases your operating costs enormously though.
Plant clover. Doesn’t need mowing and puts nitrogen into the soil.
Idk what kind of wimpy clover you’ve got, but the kind around here grows as tall as the grass. Definitely need to mow.
oh no, ground cover that’s more than half an inch is so scary
Here’s one that tops out at 6 inches.
What kind of wimpy grass do you have? The stuff near me will grow over a foot if you let it
Not if you eat it.
How high do you like stuff before you think you need to mow it? Real question.
Mines all mint. It’s wonderful lol
there’s like 300 plants called “clover”, the kind in my yard will get to ass-height if i let it.
Sometimes when people say “you don’t need to mow” they mean “you don’t need to mow except once or twice a season” lol
My lawn is clover for the bees
I always wonder about these. My parents had 120 acres when I was a kid, and we raised corn, veg, 2 cows, and sooooo many chickens.
There’s no way you’re feeding cattle on less than a hundred acres, even if you dedicate most of it to pasture. We had to supplement our cow and calf (because you have to have a cow with a calf to keep milk production) with bales of alfalfa/hay every week and they still managed to keep 40 of those acres nice and trimmed.
However, you can definitely get a tremendous amount of corn out of a few acres - more than you can easily eat yourself. Chickens are an amazing use of space, you have 30-40 of them and give them the run of the place and you’ll have eggs for days and a chicken for the pot every month (depending on how your replacement rate runs, we had about 20 hatch and survive every spring).
You have to rotate your growing production regularly to make sure the soil gets what it needs, and it’s so much freaking work. A saying when I was a kid was “If you’re bored, there’s always a fence that needs mending”…
The best part was when the foods I liked were in season, because we had loads of them. The worst part was when I got soooo tired of canning :D
I’d do it again, but I’d prefer a close knit neighborhood so that I could trade things. All of our neighbors raised the same sorts of things we did… well, and/or meth… so we still had to go to the grocery store every week. Just not for squash, potatoes, corn, blueberries, etc.
yeah i think people don’t understand the scale needed to support a family’s worth of cow versus a family’s worth of corn or wheat or rice
I think you’re absolutely right. I suspect people, in general, don’t really have much grasp of ag. There’s mega industrial, and they understand that. There’s backyard/community, and they get that, but livestock? That’s probably outside the exp of probably 70% of industrialized nation people.
The cornerstone needs to be potatoes. There’s a reason so many cultures use potatoes as their stable crop. Highly nutritious, stores very long, more pest resistant then grains, doesn’t need paddies like rice.
I’d agree with that.
The acreage per cow is very dependent on where you are. I have a friend with a mother who just wanted to raise cows in her retirement (and reap the sweet tax breaks of having a ‘ranch’), and they support roughly 1 cow per acre with slight supplementation of food cubes during the winter. Go out to someplace that’s famous for cattle like west texas, and suddenly it’s a lot less,but they have so much range out there that they can let the cows go nuts.
what the fuck kind of super space efficient micro-farm has dedicated LAWN space‽‽
Right?! In a survival situation you’d be better off using that space for more food or maybe setting up solar panels to power essential equipment - check out gearscouts.com to compare power stations with the best wh/$ value if youre serious about prepping.
That farm could almost make 1 sandwich.
If you haven’t seen it:
I can’t find it now, but I’ve seen a great video of a fella with maybe a quarter acre with a smallish house but it’s entirely devoted to food. There are fruit trees and berry bushes around the outside, accessible to all from the sidewalk. Small corn and potato patches, plenty of of other fruits and veggies. I remember him grabbing some artichoke and a basket of random veg for the day’s meal.
Just a very dense garden. It was a great video tour, I wish I could find it.
Probably not what you were thinking of, but this is a project to plant quarter-acre food forests all across Africa - both to provide for people and prevent desertification.
That’s fantastic; I love it.
now this is solarpunk
Milking and threshing sound way more fun than yet another Zoom meeting.
But I want more like 10 acres of arable land and 20-30 acres of forest.
And I’d never do this in a suburb because the soil there is usually crap. They scrape the topsoil off and put back just enough to grow grass.
Milking and threshing sound way more fun than yet another Zoom meeting.
Whenever I think I can’t stand yet another video meeting, I think back on the (very brief) time I spent working on a farm. It was fun for a day or two, but after like 5 days I was ready to do whatever it took to get away from there. I got respect for farm workers, it isn’t easy!
I’ve worked a small homestead before and miss it terribly.
When my anglo friends went to summer camp, my family always sent me to pick stuff. My siblings and I got to keep the money at least, but yeah. Farm work is freaking hard, even when you’re used to it. Esp when paid by the bucket (still one of the most common metrics)
There are only 0.5 acres of arable land and 5 acres of solid land per person on the planet. (or 2k and 20k m^2 respectively) So you may, if you use that land to feed and provide lumber to at least 20 people.
Gladly.
Is airable land also waterable even though it’s in the air?
Gotta do vertical farming with that sorta space
Not with the price of energy these days! I can just about grow enough to feed my axolotl on a diet of fresh worms.
No you gotta have kids and make them do all the work. We have giant hamster wheel turbines that we use for our kids for “exercise time” before bed time. Best way to get those wiggles out and also power your grid. The best part is, the kids are so tired afterwards, they sleep right thru you playing your boombox all night
I invite anyone who dreams of self sufficiency to start by planting exactly 1 row of chard. I tried it once after it was mentioned in an article in a gardening magazine. The article recommended, if you want to produce literally all your vegetables yourself that you plant 8 rows of chard.
The article didn’t lie, chard is ridiculously space efficient, easy for beginners and continuously produces leaves for harvest. I had maybe 6 big, healthy plants and was sick of chard just 1 week later. I just let them shoot and flower as they now owned that dirt.
how many stalks of wheat is a reasonably year’s supply in the modern era? 126 stalks of corn would easily be enough for a family that also has other food sources
that also has other food sources
No idea how reliable this is but suggests that 1/2 to 1 meter squared if crop is needed for a loaf of bread: https://www.thenakedscientists.com/articles/questions/how-much-wheat-make-loaf-bread
No idea what the scale is in that picture, but it’d be a lot more efficient to grow potatoes or some similar riot veg if space is a concern.
This comment has a super rough scaling algorithm, and using it I’d eyeball the grain patches at 20x50 ft each, so 2000 sq ft or about 185 square meters, which, if the grain was wheat, would make between 185 and 740 loaves depending on yield.
Which is frankly more than I expected, though given how much effort it takes to process wheat into bread flour, I’d go with corn or potatoes 100%.
From what i know this is actually pretty bad set up with the garden because it destroys the soil
