• Krauerking@lemy.lolEnglish
    1793·
    17 days ago

    "Before our white brothers arrived to make us civilized men, we didn’t have any kind of prison. Because of this, we had no delinquents. Without a prison, there can be no delinquents. We had no locks nor keys and therefore among us there were no thieves. When someone was so poor that he couldn’t afford a horse, a tent or a blanket, he would, in that case, receive it all as a gift. We were too uncivilized to give great importance to private property. We didn’t know any kind of money and consequently, the value of a human being was not determined by his wealth. We had no written laws laid down, no lawyers, no politicians, therefore we were not able to cheat and swindle one another. We were really in bad shape before the white men arrived and I don’t know how to explain how we were able to manage without these fundamental things that (so they tell us) are so necessary for a civilized society. "

    • John Fire Lame Deer
    • shawn1122@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      451·
      16 days ago

      A lot of indigineous thinking captured in one passage, particularly restorative justice.

      I was raised Christian but reading texts on Indigineous thought has been what has helped me realize what makes a good person.

      Too much in Abrahamic religions is about obedience and blind submission to authority which is why I often feel drawn to eastern religious thought also. Both Eastern religious thought and the indigineous worldview are more holistic in my view.

      I find Abrahamic religious teachings to be very exclusionary (hey if you beleive what we believe we’ll let you into heaven) Almost like a country club of sorts. Eastern and Indigineous philosophy (with the exception of the caste system warping into a rigid institutionalized social hierarchy due in part to Western influence) seem to be much more inclusionary.

      • Whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.worldEnglish
        18·
        16 days ago

        I find Abrahamic religious teachings to be very exclusionary (hey if you beleive what we beleive we’ll let you into heaven) Almost like a country club of sorts.

        So true. Thinking about it, Christian missionaries’ main job is less to sell Jesus, but more to sell FOMO.

        Like a timeshare salesperson, they’re not gonna talk much about the maintenance fees required (such as treating each other the way Jesus said to.) They’re also not gonna talk about how so many of the other share-owners are insufferable to be around and regularly break the agreed-upon rules. Oh, but they will hype up how, for the low, low price of asking Jesus for forgiveness and getting baptized, you, too, could reserve yourself an eternal home in Paradise!

      • Prathas@lemmy.zipEnglish
        2·
        15 days ago

        It’s spelled “indigenous,” FYI. The accent is on “`di-” and you don’t make an “ee” sound after the “n”; it just goes straight to “nus.”

  • Rusty@lemmy.caEnglish
    106·
    16 days ago

    I like the last words of chief Hatuey (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatuey) before the Christians burned him alive:

    [Hatuey], thinking a little, asked the religious man if Spaniards went to heaven. The religious man answered yes… The chief then said without further thought that he did not want to go there but to hell so as not to be where they were and where he would not see such cruel people. This is the name and honour that God and our faith have earned.

  • Tja@programming.devEnglish
    68·
    17 days ago

    Didn’t Gandhi say something similar?

    “I like your christ but not your Christians, they have so little in common with christ” (or something similar)

      • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        6·
        16 days ago

        I like the idea that Jesus spent the 20 years between debating rabbis and his own ministry going east on the silk road and learning Buddhism. I’ve always felt like base Christianity seems like Buddhist principles through a Jewish lens.

          • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            2·
            16 days ago

            It’s been a while since Sunday school, do they mention “time in the desert” other than the 40 days when the devil was screwing with him?

        • Whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.worldEnglish
          3·
          16 days ago

          I always wondered about his childhood. The bible practically goes from: Jesus born > Jesus is an adult, with very little in-between. It really bugged me as a kid - I couldn’t relate to an adult, let alone to one that’s supposed to be perfect. Also, how can a little girl be expected to care about bible stories when so many of them are just boring conversations between old men from ancient times? Sure, occasionally women appear. And sometimes there are animals. Noah’s Ark’s been milked to death in kids’ bible stories, probably because it’s one of the few stories in the book that’s capable of actually capturing kids’ attention.

          But anyway. Point is, since Jesus’s youth seems to barely have a record, you could well be onto something.

            • button_masher@lemmy.mlEnglish
              2·
              16 days ago

              Yay! There are dozens of us (probably more since I guess it has leaped out of cult status)

              Oh oh and I’m also open to recommendations if there’s some other movie that you feel is similar and worthy.

              Thank you and hope you have a nice time!

      • orbitz@lemmy.caEnglish
        1·
        15 days ago

        Misquote or not, it’s a worthwhile one. I’m not religious in the least, but always thought the ideal of love your neighbor was a pretty good one. Even if they make noise after late hours and annoy you for reasons not just cause they are from a different culture.

        Also yes I’m sure there are many quotes in the Bible that say otherwise but I think the idea of Christianity and new testament sort of surpassed many of those quotes. Not that many consider that, and I’m sure there’s new testament quotes that go against it but I’ll be honest I only was taught it in elementary and a bit middle school.

        We need to get along if we have so many people around, is the idea I imagine. Not that they could imagine the cities of today.

        Also Buddha’s teachings are quite nice too. They have their issues, don’t let their issues cause you distress but be helpful if you’re able to. Least that’s what I took of his teachings, also a good philosophy, least I think so. I did listen to a lot of Buddhist sermons and perhaps took some of them wrong but he appeared to be more live and let live, help others if they would like it, if not then no worries. If only all religions were similar to that.

  • CraigimusPR1M3@lemmy.mlEnglish
    21·
    16 days ago

    Some of my family just went to the Powwow in OK, and now i randomly come across my ancestry on lemmy, wtf…

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.worldEnglish
      31·
      16 days ago

      They don’t attend mass, they don’t read the Bible except to quote overused passages, and they watch pseudo-historical and religious films and art to strengthen their alleged Christian identity.

      Okay, but that’s still just The Bible With Extra Steps.

      “Oh, you didn’t get the deep lore of the original manuscript. You just watched the VeggieTales version” might hold more water if the book itself wasn’t choke full of allegories and parables and transcribed oral histories. FFS, Revelations is literally a guy (very likely high off his balls) having a crazy dream.

      You can’t come at this document and complain “They’re getting the message sixth hand rather than fifth hand”. Embellishing the story is central to the religion’s tradition. How else do we end up with Seventh Day Adventists and Mormons?

  • I Cast Fist@programming.devEnglish
    7·
    17 days ago

    The american natives of the great lakes region were considered some of the sharpest orators the missionaries have ever witnessed. A number of them also didn’t have rigid hierarchies and believed in the importance of individual freedom. The Dawn of Everything speaks a lot about some of their civic/social beliefs.

    Speaking of which, can anyone point me to resources on those early missionaries’ records on the natives?

  • electric_nan@lemmy.mlEnglish
    4·
    15 days ago

    “I have heard that you wish me to go to church. I would not then know whether I had to go to the church of the French, the Spanish, or the Americans, or to the church of the Methodists, the Quakers, or the Presbyterians. I tell you again, you must become one people, and then I may come and be one with you.”

    -Tecumseh

  • Pollo_Jack@lemmy.worldEnglish
    43·
    16 days ago

    Dude, if we just didn’t have Christian straight up utopia. Like, please rapture and leave the sane people behind.

        • python@lemmy.worldEnglish
          2·
          16 days ago

          I think religions could be cool as a system of “basic education” in terms of morality and philosophy, in the same way that schools teach you some basic scientific knowledge with the full intention that it is a simplified model that will be replaced if you decide to further study those topics in college.

          Problem is, the current way religions work doesn’t allow for anyone to grow out of those simplified beliefs 🤷