Yes, people can sometimes tell how you are feeling by observing you. I get that it’s an uncomfortable idea, but it isn’t always just “a guess that makes them feel good”. It is possible to have an actual skill or talent for reading other people’s current mental state or emotions, just not if you’re a Lemmy user.
Excuse me but I am perfectly capable of telling when I’m being thrown out of a restaurant or orgy.
well the buffet at the orgy is always on point so just skip the restaurant next time is my advice.
People that are good at reading emotions are wrong about the reason/cause a significant portion of the time. Like noticing someone is uncomfortable doesn’t make the reason for being uncomfortable obvious.
There’s reading emotions and then there’s claiming you entirely feel other people’s emotions and are so confident in it that you insist the other person is lying about their feelings.
I’m going to preface this by saying that I don’t challenge people on their feelings, I just observe closely.
The line is kinda blurred since a ton of people are lying to themselves about their feelings, something I’m not immune from either. Anger is a common one that’s quite often a mask for fear or anxiety.
That’s fair, but I think it’s vital to frame it internally as you suspecting that there are deeper emotions at play here. At the end of the day the person in question is the ultimate authority on their emotions. A lot of so called empaths see all the deeper emotions that they want to see and more or less ignore what they don’t want or expect to see. Furthermore you’re likely rife with false positives.
Like I’m not discounting that people can observe deeper emotions, a good therapist is able to notice them and lead you to them. But people with hypervigilance often are the ones claiming that they’re “empaths” (ie see and instinctively feel other people’s emotions) and these traits can correlate with the behavior described above.
Everyone lies to themselves about something.
true enough, I was just going off the text of the meme rather than the popular notions around “empaths”
Reading emotional cues is a basic human sense. Otherwise we would not be naturally tribal. If you discovered you could read emotions past the age of 5, there is likely something atypical about you neurologically.
People can sometimes tell how they themselves feel by observing others while injecting wild assumptions born from severe anxiety where they imagine scenarios.
Meet one of my exes. he decided my agency didn’t count in any of the decisions he imposed on me.
He called it empathic. I called it abusive. He later called it anxiety. It was abusive.
basic communication using good old fashion sounds coming out of the mouth and forming words to clear the air like an adult capable of respect for another adult is heavily underrated.
Oh yeah, people that call themselves empaths tend to mostly just be narcissists in my experience. Other people having agency and feelings and their own internal life makes them so uncomfortable and they decide to call that “empathy” rather than what it is.
I’m saddened and grateful I’m not the only one here who associates the term with abusers.
Have you heard of this book and movement called “non violent communication”? It discusses the downfalls of ‘prediction’ and how to clearly speak personal needs and the value of having fair ground in relationships with a healthier way of communicating with the people you love.(because listening is love too)
Also worth reading the 10 forms of twisted thinking (prediction/mindreading is one of them) https://www.counselinglibrary.org/images/PDF_Documents/CBT_Handouts/10_Forms_of_Twisted_Thinking.pdf
5b - Mindreading “Reading” others’ thoughts
Description: Anxiety/sadness/anger,
Impact: assuming the worst
Replacement: Clear communication
yep it’s a great topic, someone in my family actually got their degree in that exact topic
Those that lack empathy hate that people are right about their hidden feelings. The reason for that is empathy is real and no amount of shade thrown on it negates that.
It’s always been my understanding that the term empath implies some sort of higher sense that not everyone is capable of. Similar to some extra sensory ability. Though I may be incorrect. I’ve never read anything jabbing at “empaths” as jabs at empathy as a concept.
Edit: Phone autocorrected “empaths” to “empathy”, oops.
I don’t immediately know another persons mood and temperament. I can however get a good read on it in a matter of minutes. If I’m around someone regularly I invariably identity if they lack of empathy by how cruel they react to anthers misfortune. Nothing extra sensory about it. Its just empathy.
I don’t think OP was making fun of that normal stuff
I’m pretty sure OP lacks any empathy at all. Its all magic to them.
I think they directed it at people who think they inow how you feel and insist their interpretation is correct even when told it isn’t. I’ve met some people like that.
As an example, people who claim you must be upset about something and telling you how your body language clearly says so even when you aren’t really upset etc. But that’s a sort of self-fulfilling prophesy because people do get upset that hah
A narcissist will insist that you are wrong about everything about them. No matter what you say they will always say you are wrong and its some other way. That is how I see this post. Some narcissist asshole playing some lame magic empathy ploy because they don’t believe in it in any way. I’ve had it used on me. I’ve learned to recognize it. I will never see things their way. They are always the victim. They never do any wrong because the feel they are right no matter what.
And I’m saying that’s not what I typically think people mean when they say they’re an empath. I mean they mean something more than that.
I’ve never met anyone who thought they were a scifi/fantasy empath.
And I’ve met plenty of people who can pick up on people’s moods and know that people who mock others’ misfortunes are cruel without calling themselves empaths.
For what it’s worth, that’s essentially how Wikipedia describes it:
Empath (/ˈɛmpæθ/; from Ancient Greek ἐμπάθεια (empátheia) ‘passion’) is a term for people who are claimed to have a higher than usual level of empathy.
In parapsychology, the mechanism for being an empath is said to be psychic channeling; psychics and mediums say that they channel the emotional states and experiences of other living beings, or the spirits of dead people, in the form of “emotional resonance.” Studies of such claims have found them to be the result of mundane empathy and charisma, with no actual supernatural capabilities involved.
Go away. I’m starting to think you are just trolling. Or you are one of those without it at all. Could be either but I’m done with this.
I have empathy. I am not trolling. Just having a discussion online. Tone doesn’t always come across well oger text. Just thought it was important to share that I really really don’t think people who say things like this are saying empathy is bad.
I feel like I’m completely detached from this social relation. I find self proclaimed “empaths” mostly just annoying or unconvincing. I don’t really have any hatred for them.
People misread my feelings all the time. Then again I’m autistic and default to a poker face like 90% of the time unless I exert effort to emote.
I find people who deny its existence to be people that don’t believe empathy is real due to their total lack of it.
You sounds like a conservative. “I don’t understand how someone doesn’t believe what I believe so they must be somehow intrinsically evil.”
EDIT: Also I don’t think anyone was saying they don’t believe empathy is real, but that self proclaimed “empaths” are usually full of shit.
Congrats you are the person in the meme.
No I’m not. The meme is a attack on the very concept of empaty for those wretched disabled souls who lack it. The lack of it is at the heart of every wrong commited in todays world. If we could identify these people and teach the foolish to ignore them we wouldn’t have the horror in china, Palistine and the US. Using the US miltary reporting on mental health diagnoses we know that twenty percent of the population lacks empathy and that twenty percnet, that minority is keeping the normal population from acheiveing wonders.
No its not an attack on empathy. Empathy isnt projecting your own thoughts onto people and believing wholeheartedly that you are correct. Its trying to put yourself in their shoes and understand how they are feeling. “Trying to understand” being the difference here. .
Emotional abuse is real too. This isn’t mindreading. It’s not prediction. It’s anticipation. And it’s emotionally discarding the people around you.
Empathy isn’t even part of what this is the moment you are throwing or feeling any shade.
Any empath who has familiarity enough with it will acknowledge that, like any other thing you see externally, mistakes can be made. With empathy, those can go pretty deep, too.
That said, I’d no more discard empathy than I would vision, and I’m not fool enough to discard a sense just because I’m not always right about how I interpret it.
I think that most people dislike having someone point out how they’re really feeling. At least initially
https://www.counselinglibrary.org/images/PDF_Documents/CBT_Handouts/10_Forms_of_Twisted_Thinking.pdf
Mind reading and prediction is often a sign of anxiety. It’s also listed as a way to violently communicate.
It’s common pattern in people who have been raised in an abusive environment who have been expected to anticipate everything about an abusive loved one who doesnt communicate openly and with respect.
As a result this can lead the person who is ‘mindreading’ (better description is anticipating) as removing agency around loved ones and it is a form of manipulation where discount a person from being able to give input.
So if you’re finding a lot of people are disliking something you’re doing(you’ve now admitted this, good for you! First step is always admittance! It’s a big step!) They are unhappy with how you are treating them as it is unfair and is a form of emotional abuse.
Just some references here in case you want to make an actual change for the better around the people you love.
I never said that I was the one doing it.
You offered your own prediction on what it is you think others dislike. That’s an assumption.
That’s not a prediction; it’s an observation.
You made the assumption here.
And we all should just trust you’re THE reliable narrator when making observations and playing messiah? Who asked you?
Have you ever tried not being a condescending cunt?
Asserting that peoples behaviors are intrinsically violent can also be a violent means of communication. Not that are shouldn’t respond to problematic behaviors - and there are circumstances that are as you describe.
No, you didn’t say it was always violent, but for a pattern of thinking and feeling that is so common, so useful, and so beneficial in so many ways, I don’t think there wholesale focus on how bad it is is warranted.
Obviously, as with most mentalities, there are benefits and detriments to it. But there are a lot of people that perform model synchronization by verifying the predictive capacity of the model they hold (whether or not they think of that progress consciously). It’s a means of getting on the same page. Sometimes it’s lovey-dovey. Sometimes it’s practical. Sometimes it’s controlling and problematic. But, by no means is it always, or even generally, violent.
Projecting personal dialogue onto others doesn’t make you a messiah.
If someone doesn’t like what you’re doing to them, and you know it’s making them uncomfortable and you even go as far as to tout it to shame them and give it an excuse “oh they don’t like having their thoughts said out loud”, you are doing what an abuser does. Minimize their victims. You don’t even allow them to defend themselves. This is abusive behaviour.
Asserting that peoples behaviors are intrinsically violent can also be a violent means of communication
Abusers also try to turn tables and call themselves a victim at the moment someone calls out their abusive behavior.
projecting personal dialogue into others doesn’t make you a messiah
Why would I think it does? do you not see that you are projecting that?
If someone doesn’t like what you’re doing to them, and you know it’s making them uncomfortable and you even go as far as to tout it to shame them and give it an excuse “oh they don’t like having their thoughts said out loud”, you are doing what an abuser does. Minimize their victims. You don’t even allow them to defend themselves. This is abusive behaviour.
I don’t think you’re fighting me here. …and I’m not interested in fighting you. I am not doing or saying what you think I am, and you have clearly placed me in the role of your abuser. I’m uninterested. …and if that is something you consider abusive, that’s on you.
Abusers also try to turn tables and call themselves a victim at the moment someone calls out their abusive behavior.
I am not claiming to be a victim, and I am uninterested in victimizing others (though I am interested in patterns of behavior in general, including trauma loops). My goal here is to converse and discuss interesting concepts.
I still think that what I actually said stands, regardless of your interpretation, which I disagree with.
It’s sad how terms get co-opted. I get it’s part of the progression of language, but it still sucks.
I soak up the feelings of those around me, but it’s not some hippie woo-woo thing. I don’t think it’s “special,” just uncontrollable empathy. I love watching game shows because I take in the excitement and happiness of the crowd/players. On the flip side, if I see someone crying, it’s hard to stay neutral, because I feel their pain without trying to.
Is it a normal human reaction? Absolutely. Do most people experience it as strongly as I do? I have no evidence either way. It could be more extreme for me, but it could also be normal - just boiling down to differences in emotional regulation.
Either way, I guess I’ll be using the old, unambiguous term “empathic.” It still works, after all, and doesn’t carry the baggage of the newer term.
I can’t watch awkward-situation comedy because of this. There are a lot of movies I’ve had to just either skip scenes or not watch entirely. Second hand embarrassment goes brrr
That’s why I watch it.
It’s like spicy food.
I love this.
Superbad was like that for me. I couldn’t enjoy it until like the 3rd time I watched it (because it’s my wife’s favorite movie). Napoleon Dynamite too
Oof, yeah, same. There’s too much cringe.
I also can’t stand fight scenes. They’re way too intense. The best I can do is zone out when they happen and at the end ask whoever’s watching with me, “Who won?”
Thst sounds pretty normal
Ah yes, reminded me of an ex. Also had severe anxiety. Which was why he broke it off. Also wanted to get back together to see if ‘he made the right choice’ because apparently I don’t count in any of the decisions he makes for me.
My answer was nope!
Mood I’m recently divorced from my husband because all he cared abt was himself
I think people on the spectrum when they finally understand their fellow human beings for even a moment just shock themselves and that’s how the term came about, lol.
“Empath” is a colloquial rather than clinical term, but it is useful. For people who grew up in an abusive household with unsafe parents, being hyper-attuned to their parent’s emotions was an important survival skill, as being able to make yourself scarce at appropriate times can save you a beating. People give off all sorts of cues to their emotional state, including facial microexpressions, vocal tonality, body language, etc., and children raised in these environments have honed their ability to inutit emotional states from scant external cues, usually without realizing that they’re even doing it. Unfortunately, most tend to disregard the “gut” feeling they get when doing it, because their abuse profile also typically includes emotional invalidation, which has taught them that their emotions are “wrong”. So the cruel irony is that most “Empaths” don’t trust their intuition, and tend to associate with abusive people like their parents, which feels comfortably like “home”.
I grew up in an environment like this and developed these skills. I certainly don’t consider myself an “empath,” but didn’t even realize I had these traits until I met my wife who was working on her Masters in clinical counseling.
Is empath some sort of dogwhistle? The only time I’ve seen the phrase “I’m an empath” was in between conservative misinformation on Facebook.
I’ve seen it with some crystal-healers and alt woo woo types.
I think they mean well… shrug
they seem much much less judgemental and hung up on dogma than the “bless your heart” and “I’ll pray for you” types.
YMMV
What they think it means: I have empathy with the struggles of others and can put myself in their shoes to try and understand them.
What it actually means: I’m an insufferable arse who refuses to acknowledge or respect another person’s point of view.
I associate it deeply with BPD style emotional abuse. Everyone who’s done that form of abuse to me has called themselves an empath. But inevitably, nope, it’s just hypervigilance and projection and don’t I dare correct them on how I’m feeling.
Incidentally I have a cptsd response where I often mask discomfort and fear so it’s especially things like me saying “no” and “I don’t want that” that get disbelieved by these “empaths”
Joke’s on you! I’m a Betazoid. Captain, I feel… Intense… Scrolling.
Half-Betazoid.
Removed by mod
There has to be a better name for that.
It’s like I have ESPN or something. My boobs can always tell when it’s going to rain.
🎶borderline personalityyyyyyyy🎶
And a healthy dose of HPD with severe messiah complex
Great, now I want to replay Disco Elysium
Does understanding basic emotions make you an empath
It seems like some people in the comments think so. Like they have a super ability to sense when someone is angry but looking very angry lol
Damnit, this meme knows how my mind works and now that my delusions have been consciously presented to me, perhaps I should fix myself.
That was a good one 🤣👍🏻
