Anyone holding this view can get in the sea
Equally moronic as saying the letter “e” is passive aggressive
It’s not that EVERY full stop is passive aggressive, it’s about interpreting tone.
So for example, when I text my parents and say, “Thank you for the invite, we’d be happy to come over for dinner next Monday!” and my dad replies, “Great.” That looks passive aggressive.
He doesn’t mean it that way, tone interpretation from short texts just isn’t something he’s fluent in like those of us who’ve been texting (or IMing back before texts) most of our lives.
If he had said “Great” that would be fine, as would “Great!” But “Great.” is interpreted as sarcastic and/or passive aggressive.
and my dad replies, “Great.” That looks passive aggressive
What about it makes it look passive aggressive? How would excluding punctuation make it not look passive aggressive?
The fact that ‘great’ by itself is not a full sentence, and a period indicates a declarative stop.
See example above.
It’s the explicit inclusion of period where ‘normally’ there wouldn’t be one. In texting or DMs it would normally be assumed that one-liners wouldn’t contain punctuation except to enhance effect, so the inclusion of the full stop is being read as a 😐 or exaggerated neutrality
It’s the explicit inclusion of period where ‘normally’ there wouldn’t be one.
But given the larger history of textual communication, full punctuation is normal. Texting isn’t charged per character so it’s not like there’s a benefit to leaving it out.
Texting isn’t charged per character anymore, and only in most places most of the time. And those habits may still persist in other places. My manner of ‘speech’ is very different in front of a keyboard vs on a phone, for instance.
Texting used to be done with a number pad, so going as far as adding a period used to be a statement. Obviously we all have keyboards now, but I’m sure some of that still translates over to today.
Fair point, for T9 typing I can see that. I wouldn’t expect millennials and zennials to have dealt with T9 much, though.
dude/ette
read some fukan poetry OK thanks
If poetry text
Is how you commune with friends
Passive aggressive.edit: fixed the formatting, and my keyboard unironically took my double-tap on space to add periods for me! 😅
and my keyboard unironically took my double-tap on space to add periods for me!
Markdown also permits a trailing backslash to be a linebreak, as an alternative to the two trailing spaces.
foo\ baryields
foo
barDoes Lemmy need the double space? This isn’t Reddit after all, and it’s the only Markdown implementation I’ve seen with that requirement for line breaks.
No, baron, I was just pointing out that there are lots of different rules depending on the medium and genre and participants. le sigh
I don’t know anything about texting then. I would have been happy they responded.
What about it makes it look passive aggressive?
Good question!
As I explained later in the post, “Great.” looks like sarcasm. My brain interprets it as having a sarcastic tone, and thus being passive aggressive.
(I am not alone in this, hence the very thing we’re commenting on.)
How would excluding punctuation make it not look passive aggressive?
You might as well ask why tone of voice changes the way we interpret things. Written short-form communication has evolved cultural norms that some people understand better than others, just like spoken communication. Chalk my tone interpretation up to an adolescence spent on IRC.
My point is that the full stop being passive aggressive is contextual. None of my uses of it here are intended to portray passive aggression or sarcasm, and if I wanted to do that I would not only change my sentence length and structure, but also my vocabulary.
But of course these norms aren’t as readily understood as actual tone of voice, which is why things like “/s” can be useful.
First off, thanks for humoring me.
As I explained later in the post, “Great.” looks like sarcasm. My brain interprets it as having a sarcastic tone, and thus being passive aggressive. (I am not alone in this, hence the very thing we’re commenting on.)
I get that it’s a common interpretation amongst a demographic.
You might as well ask why tone of voice changes the way we interpret things
Eh, vocal changes carry actual physical changes in the sound waves which non-hearing-impaired persons can perceive, so I don’t quite think it’s an apt comparison. But I understand your intent in doing so.
But of course these norms aren’t as readily understood as actual tone of voice, which is why things like “/s” can be useful.
Precisely why it seems odd to me to interpret the use of the basic of punctuation whose literary meaning hasn’t ever carried an absence of express indicator of emotional intent to be negative.
Again, thanks for engaging with me on it, even though I still don’t get it.
I think it is because short form texts like IMs/SMS/irc are more like spoken language than written language. And if somebody talks to you and ends a sentence with “period”, the meaning/feeling of the sentence changes.
It also depends so much on context. My dad texting “Great.” in that text would be different than me texting my work friend:
Them: Paul called out again
Me: great.
Yes. Correct. Accurate.
I can see how someone literally putting the word “period” at the of a sentence gives it a certain tone. But the meaning of a period is that the sentence is ended.
Wow. What a good question.
Thanks.
The fact that their dad was (possibly?) raised in an era when children were taught to read and write correctly is what makes it passive aggressive…
and just laziness inculcated by Internet/mobile/meme culture.
it’s about interpreting tone.
Kinda feels passive aggressive, idk man
That’s silly, and at the very least probably gonna cause unconscious bias to second language speakers, neurodivergent people & just anyone who doesn’t communicate via text as much as we do
That’s silly
I don’t know what to tell you, communication is complicated. A lot of this is subconscious.
and at the very least probably gonna cause unconscious bias to second language speakers, neurodivergent people & just anyone who doesn’t communicate via text as much as we do
I agree, which is why it’s important for us to understand context and to attempt to interpret what the other person says in the best light.
I didn’t think my dad was actually being sarcastic when he replied that way. His text conveyed a tone he didn’t intend, just like when my neurodivergent ass says something in a tone of voice harsher than I intend.
This is no different from spoken communication, except there we get additional clues about neurodivergence and/or linguistic familiarity.
I didn’t think my dad was actually being sarcastic when he replied that way. His text conveyed a tone he didn’t intend, just like when my neurodivergent ass says something in a tone of voice harsher than I intend.
Both of those are people inferring meaning that isn’t there. I would bet money you didn’t say stuff in a tone of voice harsher than you meant, they just didn’t like what you were saying and read way too much into it.
I disagree with your entire take.
The boomer triple period is even worse.
Thank you for the invite, we’d be happy to come over for dinner next Monday!
Great…
My dad does that a lot, and it’s so weird to me
If he does it when he is excited you might let him know about exclamation marks.
Maybe he is trying to be sarcastic.
Nope, just his normal way of talking.
Read an article a while back which explained why they probably do it, and while I don’t think it’s the one I read back than this one does a pretty good job.
TLDR: for older generations it’s a way of separating thoughts most likely leftover from postcards, whereas for the younger ones it looks like something is being (ominously) left out.
If you interpret “Great.” as “passive aggressive”, you are nuts. It simply is correct grammar, something kids seem to be unaware of nowadays.
The different context means it’s not a literary communication, but notation for casual speech.
More script or score than Strunk and White.
In that mode, punctuation is performative, and with a period after one word you should weigh heavily on a grim tone of voice, or perhaps sarcasm.
As an old fart and former editor, context is key: there are many modes of expression, and the rules vary.
It simply is correct grammar, something kids seem to be unaware of nowadays.
What a boomer take. I could just as well say that the “kids” seem to be more aware of the use of punctuation in text messaging and the implied emotion they convey
If you were aware of the use of punctuation, you would use it correctly, not like a kid that failed in school.
Ok boomer
Everyone in this thread that can’t understand how a period can be passive aggressive just reminds me of Sheldon from Big Bang Theory. They are so focused on what the rules strictly mean, that they can’t detect the nuance of how people actually communicate.
I don’t think the issue is his fluency in interpreting tone but you’re just interpreting it differently. In this case you’re misinterpreting it since he didn’t mean to be passive aggressive
I’m not saying that’s the interpretation I walked away with. Context is important. I knew my dad wasn’t being sarcastic, just read that way. It made me laugh, it made my wife laugh!
It’s like back when some people didn’t realize all caps meant yelling and they would go around with caps lock on until they had it explained to them.
In what way is that passive agressive? That is so weird. I simply ignore tone on the internet or texts. There is not any. Just words. They said great it means great. That’s it.
And I have been sending messages most of my life, and it is a simple rule: there is no tone in texts or messages.
Every time universal signs of people being passive aggressive is explained to me the person who thinks these tiny signs like the exact way someone interacts mean it is passive aggressive they are wrong.
All of the examples apply to either individuals or a specific subset of people. I have relatives who do one thing that is passive aggressive, but when everyone else does the same thing they are just interacting normally. Saying that the shit those relatives do is always a sign of being passive aggressive is not true, it is only in the context of those relatives and other people who might be passive aggressive in the same way.
So for example, when I text my parents and say, “Thank you for the invite, we’d be happy to come over for dinner next Monday!” and my dad replies, “Great.” That looks passive aggressive.
Ugh, that is reading way too fucking much into how someone types text. Maybe it reads that way because it stands out as different from the normal way he types, but if he always ends with a period it would look completely normal!
deleted by creator
Where periods?
You don’t have to use them
Just don’t go making stuff up about people’s intentions when they do
This is a stupid rule and I will continue to ignore it.
If you insist on interpreting my use of punctuation in a text as anything other than an effort to communicate clearly, I’m likely to start being passive aggressive at some point.
“Ah, an em-dash. You must be an AI.”
My editor once said this to me. I didn’t use AI. He said that I still should remove it to make my article sound less like AI
…but how should I interpret your passive aggressiveness if I should interpret your use of punctuation as no more than an effort to communicate clearly?
It’s fine, I don’t care
I’ll just do it the way everyone else wants to, I guess I don’t need to use periods, not like my opinion matters anyway
There’s actually a name for people who perceive proper punctuation as being passive aggressive. They’re called “morons.”
Edit: in the name of further research I asked my wife, who is a non-punctuation texter, what she thought about this. Here’s what I got.
Results of Conversation with Mrs. jubilationtcornpone
Me: “If someone sent you a message that had a period at the end, would you think they were angry with you?”
Her: “Like now? No. When I was younger? Yes.”
Me: “Why would you think that when you were younger?”
Her: “Hmmm. I don’t really know. I guess because women tend to read between the lines, even if there’s nothing there. And because people like to have something to complain about and little miscommunications are an easy target.”
Me: “Ok. So why doesn’t it bother you now?”
Her: “Probably because I met you and you always use punctuation. You know <mutual friends husband>? She knows when he’s mad at her just based on specific words he uses in texts or just the way he says something.”
Me: “So if you start using punctuation, I should be concerned?”
Her: “Like if I say “I’m fine.” With a period and everything?”
Me: “Yes.”
Her: “Yeah. That means I’m not fine.”
Me: “That’s a lot of pressure to put on a period.”
Her: “True.”
Me: “But you already know I’m going to infer nothing from that. I probably won’t even notice.”
Her: “Yeah. I know. That’s why l would just tell you.”
Me: “Fair enough.”
Her: “You’re just one of those people who says exactly what they mean. There’s no cryptic message or anything.”
Me: “That’s what I’m talking about!”
Her: “It is kind of nice actually.”
This was fascinating and amusing. If you and the Mrs start a podcast, let us know so we can subscribe.
No, they’re called people who know how to write, as the point of writing is to communicate ideas and emotions, not to be a pedant about ever changing rules.
The rule hasn’t changed.
There may be an informal convention among some people that using a period at the end of the last sentence in a text is passive aggressive, but it’s far from universal and far from being a rule.
Seems like it’s just as pedantic to expect people who have habitually used correct punctuation for decades to adopt this convention without ever being told and then blaming them for not abandoning an immensely useful part of written language for no apparent reason.
Idk, but this definitely isn’t new. I’m 31 and have been removing periods from texts for a decade to help convey tone. It’s like how women use (over use?) exclamation points in emails, because periods come across as aggressive and curt. The same is true in text, but instead of exclamation points, I’m able to just leave a sentence without punctuation so it doesn’t come across as angry, annoyed, or frank.
This has been well documented for a long time, but true media literacy dictates you try to ignore these rules in texts from Gen X and Boomers, otherwise they’re going to come across as very rude over text with their periods and ellipses.
You eventually restated my point. It’s a convention used among a portion of the population, documented in articles and studies, but not taught or a part of formal grammar.
At some point a set of fairly strict rules is important for a written language, as your point with Gen X and Boomers helps to illustrate, because it makes sure you can be understood by a broader audience when clarity is required. Punctuation is a fundamental part of that.
Omitting periods in text is a technilogical colloquialism. I’m not arguing that. But that doesn’t mean, as the poster that I first replied to implied, that people who omit periods from texts are the only ones who “know how to write”.
Over-use of exclamation points is another poor habit, since they can mark something that’s important regardless of it being a positive or negative. With quoted speech it could be something that’s either angry or joyful. Using them to convey a non-threatening tone shouldn’t be required. I get that it is in some cases, and I belive that indicates a problem with our overall literacy and a renewed misogyny in the workplace.
Whether this is a result of the medium of communication or a decline in literacy is up for debate, but word choice and context should do the bulk of conveying tone and relying on punctuation for that purpose understandably looks like an indicator of poor literacy.
At some point a set of fairly strict rules is important for a written language
Given that English has become the lingua franca without having a strict set of rules, reality would say otherwise. If a strict set of rules was that important then French would be the most commonly used language.
Over-use of exclamation points is another poor habit, since they can mark something that’s important regardless of it being a positive or negative. With quoted speech it could be something that’s either angry or joyful. Using them to convey a non-threatening tone shouldn’t be required. I get that it is in some cases, and I belive that indicates a problem with our overall literacy and a renewed misogyny in the workplace.
You realize that its just you who’s having problems? You are claiming that other people have literacy problems, when they communicate with each other just fine, and it’s you who are struggling to communicate effectively. They are not having problems with being misinterpreted, just you are.
Whether this is a result of the medium of communication or a decline in literacy is up for debate, but word choice and context should do the bulk of conveying tone and relying on punctuation for that purpose understandably looks like an indicator of poor literacy.
No, people insist on strict rules so that they don’t have to change or learn new things, and can blame other people when they communicate poorly. The English language constantly changes, and authors constantly break the “rules” that your elementary school teacher taught you to effectively communicate ideas. That has literally always been the case, from Shakespeare, through Cormack McCarthy, to the past several decades of online communication.
You seem to think a centralized style and grammar book like the French have is the only way to have strict set of grammatical rules.
An overwhelming number of English textbooks and stylebooks agree on the use of a period. We’re not talking about something esoteric here, it’s how you end a sentence. Omitting them is poor writing. Claiming artistic licence or understandability doesn’t change that in the vast majority of cases. I’m not calling those who omit them baby-killers or anything. It’s just poor writing that people have grown accustomed to seeing.
Writers like McCarthy, Twain, and Joyce have the chops to communicate exceptionally well despite breaking these rules, not just because they broke them. The people in the office next to yours mangling emails don’t.
And literacy rates are on the decline in the US. Take that however you will.
The rule hasn’t changed.
Can you point me to this institution that decides on the rules of the English language? What’s it’s address? Where does it publish these rules?
There may be an informal convention among some people that using a period at the end of the last sentence in a text is passive aggressive, but it’s far from universal and far from being a rule.
It is a natural result of reading both versions, noticing that one sounds more formal and has a sharp ending, and noticing that since you can write either one, if they’re ending it sharply they must be doing so intentionally. If you use the full availability of communication options available, it inherently sends that signal, if you follow rules for the sake of following rules though, then it limits that option so doesn’t send that signal.
Seems like it’s just as pedantic to expect people who have habitually used correct punctuation for decades to adopt this convention without ever being told and then blaming them for not abandoning an immensely useful part of written language for no apparent reason.
You had literally decades to adjust and change, this isn’t new, it’s been the case since at least the early 00s when cell phones and instant messengers became a thing.
Literally, read a fucking book.
You first.
YOU made the initial claim about this “new” meaning, onus is therefore on you to substantiate it.
For my defense, I’ll start with Elements of Style, the OECD, and any other English dictionary or grammar book.
Because if you really want to play “who has the best evidence for their case”, you’re gonna lose to several hundred years, and
millionsbillions of written documents.So you’ll point to a variety of different and conflicting sources?
The English language naturally evolves over time. You getting butthurt about improving your communication style accomplishes nothing.
Show me where those sources conflict on the use of a period.
Show me where they state that their rules are meant for informal communication.
You learned this shit at school. Did you think your teacher was making it up on the fly?
At school they teach you common rules of thumb for the English language, and formal writing styles for communicating in academic settings. Famously, and unlike French, the English language does not have hard set rules, and book writers constantly break the ones you’re taught in elementary school to more effectively communicate their ideas, or speak in a desired voice.
If somone struggles to understand what someone else means if they use proper punctuation, that sounds like illiteracy.
If someone struggles with understanding context, they are probably a sea beast.
Man, that must suck to be so incredibly insecure that you project your need for constant validation on to, quite literally, the most innocuous thing.
Yeah, I also don’t think it’s only about the full stop. It’s not like they’re using semicolons.
⸮Or even the percontation point. And I don’t see any interrobang‽
omg. i’ve heard of interrobang but never the percontation point. thank you for sharing that!
Suck. My. Dick.
This is the way. Fuck passive aggressive. Be aggressive aggressive.
I’m glad that full stops are now passive aggressive, because that’s been my intent all along.
OK.
K.
“K” works best without a period. It is literally the lowest effort acknowledgement possible while ensuring that you contribute absolutely nothing in return.
K
Yes, exactly like that!
Those rules are cringe, and you can safely tell them to suck your passive aggressive butthole.
I think it is honestly really pathetic that so many of you claim to love language and yet what you really love is having a rigid form of interaction that you can shame people for not perfectly following or reacting intuitively to.
Language is ALWAYS a negotiation, if you dismiss people that interpret your sentences without a period as passive-aggressive, YOU are the one that loses because you have undermined the basic premise of communicating with others in favor of the comforting idea that there are a perfect set of unchanging abstract rules that can be applied to communication that delineate a “correct” way to do things.
There are no rules to language, language is not decided by a committee, language is a living breathing thing that does not give a fuck about your condescending attempt to lock it in stone and direct it towards being used as a tool to shame others with.
You don’t get to decide what people react to and don’t react to in your language.
Yes! Preach! Same with new words. Every generation gets angry with the next generation using new words but you don’t get to decide how I use words. I will adhere to certain rules so we can keep understanding each other but all the members of the commission will have to be willing to rewrite the rules if the language has changed.
If people react poorly to correct grammar that’s on them not me.
Saving this for the next time I could you use scathing takedown.
As the other person says it’s the same with new words and people looking down on the next generation like theirs didn’t do the same. I love that language evolves, always something to learn. Better than shouting at clouds, which should be Lemmy’s tagline.
Thank you! It’s sad this comment is so far down. This has been one of the most confusing group of responses I’ve read on the fediverse so far. So many angry and unmovable people who sound like they don’t communicate with humans.
Oddly enough, I don’t claim to really love language for the sake of language, but it’s pretty useful in my day to day so I try to use it well. I like your post, so, in the spirit of negotiation let’s use the term baseline instead of rules.
The bulk of educational and informational works on the English language gives us a kind of baseline for our written language. When someone deviates from that baseline, most of the time we can still understand them because we can see how it differs and can infer their intent based on context and that baseline.
The dictionaries, style guides, and grammar texts that give us our baseline exist to facilitate written communication, not stifle it. They’re the result of hundreds of years of these kinds of negotiations, not just arbitrary choice as so many people claim. Good grammar isn’t just a cudgel to beat the creativity out of kids, it’s the benefit of centuries worth of experience and study. Just as new ideas shouldn’t be dismissed out of hand, we also shouldn’t disregard past practice simply on the basis of it’s age.
Baselines do change. But it’s a slow process, not every popular new deviation will stand the test of time, and many antique forms are still present in our modern language. Think of it like scientific progress. Some ideas are validated by experimentation, others are proven wrong. Our understanding of the universe is more complex now than centuries ago, but there are still numerous constants that have been proven time after time. Our language has grown more complex too, but that doesn’t mean that some very old ideas about how to communicate in writing aren’t still useful today.
But you’re very, very right about shame and reactions, and I’d be dishonest not to admit that. It’s too easy for armchair grammarians to treat language as if it exists in a logic vacuum separate from human emotion, and that’s simply not the case.
Omitting a period from a text isn’t a crime, I freely admit that I’m often a grumpy old asshole about this sort of thing when I shouldn’t be, and you’re 100% correct that people shouldn’t be shamed over it.
At the same time, the reverse is also true. Not every plea for punctuation and grammar is creative or ideological tyranny, and if some people react poorly to a text that omits punctuation, that’s not something the author has a say in either.
At any rate, I hope this comes of as intended, a genuine, if overly lengthy explanation from someone who supports the widespread use of punctuation, and not just Grandpa Simpson yelling at a cloud. =)
I agree so much and I love it. I love texting. I love adjusting my language and tone to fit the social setting I am in. Or break it on purpose. And it’s so incredible that just by texting a person you’ve just recently made contact with you can find out soo much about their social setting, life, their circles and beliefs and attitudes. The closer I get to people the more memes and stickers I use to communicate. And usually by their choice of memes and stickers tell me a lot about them too.
Language is amazeballs. I sincerely hope that when my daughter grows up she will be able to switch to the most insane gibberish that will sound like random ass code to me when talking to her friends. And hopefully switch back to be understandable when talking with me.
It’s been this way for a long time. 20 years ago I was told I came off as angry in my texts. It took me a sec, but I figured out it’s bc i put periods at the end of the last sentence.
That sounds like a good plan. See you there
-vs-
That sounds like a good plan. See you there.
That doesn’t sound angry to me, but I suppose things are subjective.
Nah. It’s not subjective. It’s the result of fucking imbeciles that don’t read.
That was meant to be angry because taking correct punctuation as some sort of slight is stupid as shit.
imbeciles that don’t read
…imbeciles who don’t read
Yes, you are correct. They are people and not things.
Nah. It’s not subjective. It’s the result of fucking imbeciles that don’t read.
But isn’t that what makes it subjective? Subjective means its meaning is “subject” to the reader’s interpretation. It isn’t objective, which is when the meaning exists outside such frames of reference.
That is, ending a text with a period isn’t a(n objective) rule that always means a particular tone. Instead, it’s a (subjective) understanding made by certain readers (who may be making assumptions that the texter didn’t intend.)
Yes, you’re correct if we want to get technical.
However, I have a difficult time believing that most people truly think that using sentence ending punctuation is default passive aggressive. If I wanted to, I could read “great.” and “great” both as passive aggressive. The default takeaway of a response shouldn’t be negative, it’s just an answer using a rule that indicates that I’ve stopped my reply.
A good reader looks for context clues to decipher meaning. In the end, if one is unsure then just ask for clarification. Starting with a default negative view indicates to me that there is something deeper going on with that person.
Agreed, I don’t see it as passive-aggressive, I see it as using proper punctuation. I’m an oldie, though, and most of the people I text know what I mean when I type. If someone were to react negatively to putting a period in a text, I’d implore them to talk to me about it instead of assuming motive that isn’t there. Then if that doesn’t help, well, guess we won’t be texting each other anymore. I don’t have the time or energy to play silly misinterpretation games with someone who can’t communicate like an adult.
Lmao, this thread is full of self righteous pendants who can’t communicate.
Learn how to write in the way your writing will be read, or don’t bother writing.
If you choose to read literate writing as passive aggressive, well then you can fuck right off.
And that would be my response to anyone behaving this way toward me. It’s wholly a you problem.
Good afternoon.
Lolol how is you living a life where people think that you’re an asshole, a me problem?
Actually no, if you come off like an asshole that is by definition a you problem :)
You threatening me??
I’m tired of people reading text from me, interpreting emotions that don’t exist, then getting mad at me for it.
I don’t like your sarcastic attitude
Lol
What do you mean by that
How dare you
First of all, how dare you! Second of all, what give you the right? And third of all, who do you think you are?
They’re ripcord, show some respect!
So “full stop” means a Period, right? A period is a period, PERIOD. That’s all it is. It ends a sentence, so you start a new one. It doesn’t contain any emotional ammunition. It certainly isnt passive aggressive, that’s just stupid.
What’s next? Are we going to start debating the tyranny of the comma, or the righteous indignation of the semi-colon?
Or maybe we should be debating the infiltration of our written communications by Big Emoji? They’re obviously behind all of this, trying to encourage more emoji use, to stuff their coffers with that sweet emoji revenue.
Calm the fuck down, people.
Looking at the responses. This post is ragebait lnao
Correcting people’s gammar has always been a surprisingly contentious issue.
Everything on the Internet is rage bait. Take your lame edgy take elsewhere. We’re here for the debate.
It’s really only a “full stop” when it’s the last or only sentence, not just any sentence with a period. It’s related to phones only adding the period if you hit space twice. So by default, single sentences never have it because you don’t continue typing. So actually putting it in is intentional for many people and they are in fact making a statement akin to “this is my final word on the matter”.
It’s the difference between
“Can you help me with this?” “No”
And
“Can you help me with this?” “No.”
That extra “.” after “No” wasn’t strictly necessary, so by including it on purpose, you’re making a statement. That’s the general thought process going on with people who find it passive aggressive.
You can also go back even further to T9 typing and texting shorthand and see that punctuation was largely ignored due to message size limitations and difficulties typing on a phone in general. It’s something that has evolved over time due to the medium. The main issue is people who have gone through this transition see it one way, and people who are used to more formal writing suddenly joining the internet see it another way. I would say it’s more like regional accents. Both are correct depending on context.
The only reason your phone doesn’t add the punctuation in for you like it does the automatic capitalization of the first letter is because it can’t tell when you’ve finished your complete thought.
I’ll never let lazy cunts tell me I’m being passive aggressive for using goddamn proper punctuation. I’ll be actively aggressive about that.
edit:
Can anybody in this thread who actively omits periods in texts specifically because of the negative connotations explain to me why they think that having that be a normal convention is actually good?
Like, why would anybody want an option to sign off their texts with a passive aggressive slant? I can’t wrap my head around it.
The firm believers in the whole “language is constantly evolving and has no rules” thing would probably not like it if future generations decided fuck using punctuation altogether. No commas, no questions marks, no paragraph breaks. It’s easier for them because they normally communicate in five dimensional haptic virtual reality where punctuation is an anachronistic holdover. How come you aren’t on board with their wacky language rules?
I don’t give a shit if you don’t use punctuation in texts or not, that’s entirely on you and I don’t judge people for using shortcuts, but fuck if I’m going to let someone tell me using a period to end my sentences indicates anything other than “I have finished my thought / I have finished speaking.”.
Because it can signal annoyance? It’s almost like having more possible meanings adds depth to conversation. The end of a text is already final enough, so a period doesn’t add any functionality that way unless you somehow believe someone got raptured mid sentence and still hit send.
It’s like if you asked someone, “How are you?” And they said “I’m fine” or “I’m fine.” or “I’m fine!” or “I’m fine?” or “I’m fine…”
It signals different connotations and tones for all five. Period is no longer default since they aren’t required, so they have taken on additional meaning
The end of a text is already final enough, so a period doesn’t add any functionality that way unless you somehow believe someone got raptured mid sentence and still hit send.
Sure it does. It disambiguates sentences from questions.
If you received a text that read “Buy bread”, there are multiple ways to interpret that. If I assume the lack of a period is a statement, then I would assume the person is instructing me to buy some bread at the store. But if there were a question mark at the end, the meaning changes - they are asking if they need to buy bread, or perhaps asking if I have already bought bread or am planning to buy bread.
Now, if you are familiar with the person on the other end of the text, you might already have the necessary context to parse it out without the need for formal punctuation, but if it’s someone you maybe don’t text very often or a complete stranger, wouldn’t it be nice to know for sure if they were making a statement or asking a question, definitively and clearly?
Adding an intentional period removes any doubt that it might have been a question. It eliminates the possibility that the person on the other end simply forgot to add a question mark while typing out a hasty text at the grocery store.
You might argue that period or no, the message got across just fine, and that assuming no punctuation is the same as having a period, but that’s not the point. The point is that the period does add functionality, it just isn’t functionality that you deem useful.
I certainly wouldn’t want to replace the effectiveness of proper punctuation in favor of having the period be reduced to a means of signing off my messages in a passive aggressive manner. I can do that all by myself, thank you very much.
You know they’re exactly the same thing right ? Only north americans use the term “period”.
Old English used stops liberally, they were used in place of commas and semi-colons as well, it was called a full stop at the end of the sentence.
Nope, you end a sentence with period. Period. That’s just basic punctuation, like starting a sentence with a capital letter.
Look, I explained how it developed and why it’s used that way. I also explained the difference between a “full stop” and a “period”. If your reading comprehension is that terrible, maybe don’t get involved in discussions about linguistics because it clearly went right over your simple minded little head.
I have excellent reading comprehension skills, and I understand everything you wrote, and I stand by my response.
And I said it without being a prick, too.
You really didnt
No, you were a prick who talked past them.
They very clearly and calmly explained the dynamics of both sides of this debate, and you responded by inanely reiterating your original point which they obviously already understood.
I’m not “talking past” anyone, I was simply reiterating my basic point, which is all that needs to be said. He can talk all he wants, and it still doesn’t change the basic fact that a sentence should always ends with a Period (or some other punctuation), no matter what common usage at the time.
And more importantly, the idea that a Period carries emotional baggage like Passive Aggression is silly, and self-indulgent. Nobody should have to think about you that much that they should worry whether you’ll be offended by a period. If you require that much emotional maintenance that it extends to punctuation, then you are just a giant pain in the ass to everyone around you, and you need to grow up and get a life.
Lmao, you keep acting like other people perceiving you as an asshole is a them problem when it is literally just a you problem.
It’s been 30 fucking years, learn how to text.
It does.
So “full stop” means a Period, right? A period is a period, PERIOD. That’s all it is. It ends a sentence, so you start a new one. It doesn’t contain any emotional ammunition. It certainly isnt passive aggressive, that’s just stupid.
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Spoiler: I agree with you.
Reading in emotions to text to such an extent that normal punctuation is seen as a negative is rather juvenile.
No need to yell 😖
I prefer using the rules we all established and should have learned as children to communicate via text, which includes ending a sentence with a period unless it’s an exclamation or a question.
What is a full stop in texting.
“.”
No need to be passive aggressive about it.
A period?
Yup.
We call it the hammer time. And by “we” I mean me, just now.
Correct. British English typically calls it a full stop
