It’s not about role modeling. It’s about learning and attention spans.
With that in mind, take them from the adults too lol. I know some adults who are chronically online
The adults already have a job. They’re fine.
The students can’t even read anymore because they’re dumb as rocks.
Same with adults. lol
Yeah, but explain that to the children, especially young ones.
I do teaching, and when I set rules about not using phones during class - I put mine to the pile too. You can present the most compelling argument ever, but there’s a much higher chance it’s gonna reach fifth graders if you actually practice what you preach, and show the example of self-discipline, otherwise it will feel dishonest or unfair to kids, because they’re kids.
There’s nothing new about children and adults being treated differently.
Their brains are literally not fully developed. Some facets of life they’re literally ill-equipped to handle and policies should reflect that.
If you’re a teenager reading this, consider.
There are a few adults who are saying that teens should have unrestricted access to the internet.
Look and you’ll see that most of them are getting money from you being on the net.
There are a few adults who are saying that teens should have unrestricted access to the internet.
I am. It saved my life
Their brains are literally not fully developed
The brain doesn’t stop developing till your thirties, source. According to this argument 30 year olds should also be subjected to banning.
Sure, we give the kids alcohol, let them drive, let them vote- wait we don’t!? What do you mean there’s always been these kinds of differences!?
I wonder if some of those critics are by an odd coincidence funded by phone related entities.
Using these as an excuse for arbritary additional restrictions doesn’t make your arguement stronger, it makes those restrictions morally suspect. This arguement means we need clearer frameworks on what is and isn’t a reasonable restriction on account of age to avoid the drinking age being a justification for erosion of rights
There’s ample evidence that social media and smartphone addiction affects developing brains significantly worse than it affects fully-developed brains.
Banning cell phone use in school is a good thing.
Critics don’t want to hear that young people whose brains aren’t fully developed yet have poorer impulse control than adults…
But young people whose brains aren’t fully developed yet have poorer impulse control than adults.
We don’t want to lose our rights because of shoddy neuroscience being misinterpreted for political gain
On the “different rules for adults and students” thing… if the adults model responsible cell phone use, i.e. never in the classrooms or hallways during school hours, never “ducking out” to their car or the teachers’ lounge just for B.S. doom scrolling or un-necessary calls, IMO that would be much stronger than just banning phones on-prem for kids and adults alike.
The real key: you should control your cell phone, it should not control you - same thing as so many other addiction problems. And, there will be addicts who genuinely are incapable of controlling it, and cold turkey tee-total zero usage has been shown to be the most effective answer for them - just like alcoholism, not drinking is nothing to be ashamed of, having a problem and drinking anyway is much much worse.
There’s ample evidence that drugs addiction affects developing brains significantly worse than it affects fully-developed brains.
Banning drugs use in school is a good thing.
Banning drugs use in school is a good thing.
You’re right. Nothing that isn’t perfect is worth doing.
I guess we should just wait to act until every student can’t focus on something for more than 30 seconds instead of 60. Definitely a better idea because, after all, just ignoring the problem always works.
Oh right cause the war on drugs totally worked. My point is that addressing the consequences won’t solve the problem, like those children’s won’t go home and be glued to their phones.
like those children’s won’t go home and be glued to their phones.
if they can put them down for 6 hours a day, that’s huge progress over saturating in it every waking hour.
It’s not about enforcing behavior. Not primarily. It’s about setting a precedent of what is important.
There’s a huge difference between “They didn’t let me drink underage but I did it anyway and became an alcoholic.” and “They explicitly let me drink and I became an alcoholic.”
The former AUTOMATICALLY comes with increased caution from even the people who break the rules. And more importantly, it completely removes the “I didn’t know” from the equation. Personal acceptance of the consequences of one’s actions is the first step to fixing it later, but with no rules, it’s easy to get bogged down in “Nobody stopped me. It’s THEIR fault.”
I’m not saying it’s a bad thing but it’s like keeping an eye on your alcoholic friend for 6 hours then just leaving and letting him help himself on the drinks cabinet. It shifts the blame from the problem to the victim. Yeah it’s a good start but these children are already addicted at very young ages. Also it’s not like this problem is only affecting kids, adults are affected as well.
We took away all their other options, then complain they’re always on their phones. It’s cruel
I understand your point.
And it’s absurd, as I illustrated.
This take is giving: 🙈
“If we don’t see it, it’s not happening and yay we saved the kids!”
Maybe that’s an issue with social media and the other apps on children’s phones, and not the phones themselves. So maybe it requires a combination of regulation on social media, plus better awareness from parents, instead of a blanket ban on a technology tangentially related to the problem.
It’s all made up to justify control
No, it isn’t.
Make friends with a few schoolteachers and listen to their stories.
My kid goes to school where they recently instituted this strategy.
It feels like I’ve seen a marked improvement in their social behaviors.
Between smartphones and the COVID years, this generation has had it rough for social development…
Yeah! Kids shouldn’t have different rules than adults! Same rules for all ages!
Sincerely,
The Pedophiles
And the tobacco industry. And the gamling industry.
And the mining industry
Yeah wtf? TONS of things have a set of rules for adults and kids, that’s literally what being a minor means… how is this a bad thing? Adults aren’t kids, kids aren’t adults… why should they be treated the same?
The pedophiles are the ones making these rules. (Source: the Epstein files) isolation enables abuse, and these policies aren’t being made in a vacuum but as part of a comprehensive attack on access to information and connection
Sounds good, we should let kids drink and smoke pot then right. You can drive a car at any age, any age person can buy cigarettes. No more age restrictions on games and movies…
Staff at schools are adults, many of which are responsible for the lives of other living humans. The critics must all have the maturity of school children.
I said this before: I know schools that do not have cell phone bans yet the students simply don’t use them. Its called engagement and respect, and teaching kids appropriate use.
I think considering laws like this says more about a broken education system (or lack of parenting) than a cell phone problem.
Well, we have to fill our prisons somehow.
What better way than a new felony Use of Instagram law. School Resource Officers may even get to use their tasers on children more often, resulting in free training at no taxpayer expense!
Schools are now places where children are legall required to go and have no rights while they’re there. Gross abuses of children can be done with nothing more than the most vague and unproven suggestion that it’s for “safety” or “education”
respect
Really goes to show that discrimination and ageism can be resolved just like that. We treat peers like peers and listen to them, not silently dictate what they should/shouldnt do. This post is in essence a giant slippery slope.
Don’t be silly, we simply need to ban phones for adults and we’d solve a BUNCH of other problems too…
Like being dissidents aginst the government, for example
we should let kids drink and smoke pot then right
In a lot of cases, showing them how to drink and smoke pot in moderation would be healthier than the outright bans which they circumvent and then go binge when they can get away with it.
I actually would argue this is a fair comparison though. Phones are for contact with others unlike the other things you mentioned they can also be very helpful in an emergency. A teacher will want to contact their family to let them know they are safe just the same as a student would. I think that’s where the real issue is. We have so many school shootings and parents want to be able to connect with their children in those situations. It may be distracting for learning but at the end of the day as a parent the school shootings are alarming and no one is doing anything about it and this makes it seem scarier from that perspective. No one is even addressing that part of it
As a parent I’d rather have my child not districted by a phone in an emergency. My child will be safest in those situations if the staff contact the authorities and the kids are focused on following their instructions. In both situations, phone or no phone, there’s nothing I can do until the situation is over.
Edit: and using the threat of school shootings yo ruin school for most children when so few schools will ever be in that situation is absurd. Those parents should put more of their energy into gun control and thr availability and affordability of mental health treatment.
Yeah the authorities in texas showed how great of a job they do right?
It’s not the threat of a shooting that’s ruining it it’s the actual shootings dude
Yeah you’re right, kids with cell phones in class would have solved all of that.
I never said it would solve it but until it’s solved I would rather not also give up access to communication with my child in an emergency.
Dude, we’re talkin’ Texas - kids with AR-15s in class would solve the shooter problem Texas style.
The fact that anything can, with enough baseless and politically motivated fear mongering, be added To that list with no consideration for civil liberties is a massive problem.
Not sure if you realize this but its well established in the US that kids in schools don’t have those.
That’s a huge problem
You sound like you think people have significant ‘control’ over ‘kids’ buying and consuming cannabis, alcohol, and cigarettes, etc. … Kids already consume cannabis and alcohol and cigarettes etc. even though you pretend you ‘don’t let them’ (threaten them) and harrass them. Prohibition from alcohol to cannabis, for example, has not reduced consumption, but rather reduced supply, increased prices, and decreased quality. Repression tells consumers you hide value on the other side of your unilateral decree. On the other hand, instead of a facsist authoritarian totalitarian approach of repression, in comparison, an approach with education, legalization and decriminalization has reduced prevalence of consumption of drugs, including amongst kids; for example, Portugal has decriminalized all drugs (in ~2001); they offer drug consumers education and treatment instead of incarceration and difficult to verify products from difficult to verify producers and sellers in dark places. But the big billionaire homicidal dealers (Merck, Pfizer, United Health Care, etc.) have a lot of monetary incentive of polluting media messaging with muddy murky moral panics like the ones you just put your discursive hands in today. That being said, kids should indeed get education on things like the importance of paying attention in lectures, doing their homework on schedule, secure use of technology, blockading attempts of the feudalist advertising industry of manipulating their opinions, blockading big tech from literally spying on them and selling their opinions and bodies left and right, etc. Fun fact: that problem (cell phone use in course rooms where course work (e.g. lectures and note writing) should occur) has also been having widespread occurence among ‘adult’ students in university courses.
When a school principal sits across a meeting table with me and starts spouting “we have absolute zero tolerance for _______ here, that just does not happen on MY campus.” I know that further logical, reasoned, evidence based conversation is pointless, at this point it’s about bargaining and threats - what do they want from me, what unpleasantness can convince them that I can do to them? Anything “for the kids” is just a lie, and a joke to them.
Texan here, working for a school district where these types of laws have already been implemented: I’m pretty sure it’s about controlling narratives, not improving education.
Kids use their phones to fact-check teachers, record teachers improperly addressing students, record fights, and verifiably report on very real issues within the school. I haven’t seen any educational benefits from banning cell phones, only that it’s been easier to sweep stories under the rug and to refute concerning complaints from children in need.
i suspected it as much. teens have been recording inappropiate behaviour by school admistrations. any statutory rape, relationship they dont want that to hit neews. before cellphones, i caught 1-2 professors/instructers using outdated or misinformed facts in bio. this probably where its good to fact check
Fuck that. If you can’t stop schools from getting shot up, banning phones is the wrong move.
Phone use can be “banned” while allowing them to have phones on their person for emergencies.
Just banning them being out.
That’s already school policy in every school, and has been for literally decades now.
You don’t need a law for that.
STOP ARGUING. DO AS I SAY.
NO, YOU CAN’T HAVE A PROTECTIVE BALLROOM!!Exactly, people are at gunpoint, and yet this post is filled with slippery-slope propaganda. Its classic Lemmy, too unrestrained to realise discrimination applies everywhere.
Yes, we have different rules for kids and adults. Does anyone want to argue that we shouldn’t? Really? Let’s hear it.
I take it the argument that kids need their phones to be safe at school has been completely debunked? Otherwise, they’d use that one, like parents have since this whole fiasco started.
To anyone old enough to remember when schools didn’t allow personal phones, because they didn’t exist, the idea that they should be allowed is ludicrous. Same for allowing food, or chit-chat, or kids to get up and wander around the class during instruction, or all the other stupid shit that goes on now in schools, from what I’ve read.
Adults are more responsible than children. Responsibility comes with privileges.
Adults are more responsible than children. Responsibility comes with privileges.
uhhh you must not be in the states…
Hopefully only smart phones. I don’t care what the school says, my kid will have a flip phone or something so they can contact me and take pics and video. Like everyday a new grooming case comes out and they want less surveillance?
Now you see why they want bans. Phone cameras filming abuses of power is one of the most powerful civil rights advances ever. These phone bans are designed to harm children
If this is the reason you want a cell phone, your efforts are misplaced. Most of these sort of sex offenders are parents, relatives, or friends of the family. Those are the people your kid would need to record.
You would be more likely to protect your child by making him wear a helmet along with his seatbelt or feeding him food that doesn’t suck.
Teachers fall into the same category, you doof.
Funny how that doesn’t apply to literally anything else
I couldn’t agree more.
It’s high time we stop discriminating against elementary school aged kids. There’s no good reason why they shouldn’t be allowed to drive themselves to school, or to their after school job.
Stop ageism and enable independent transportation and employment for all ages!
You say that but ebikes providing independent transportation for young people is so threatening to adults it’s being banned
I mean any 90 year old almost blind grandma/-pa is also allowed to drive so that is only fair.
If the kids don’t have their phone how will they broadcast the next school shooting to their followers or ask ChatGPT what the best hiding spot is nearby?
sooooo apply the same rules to the adults? here’s my old man yells at cloud moment but you don’t need your cell phone in school. I got through my entire schooling without one, teachers didn’t have one. if there was an emergency or you needed to make a call well that’s what the front office was for.
I mean hell in high school kids just had pagers and if a teacher caught you looking at it during class they’d just take it away.
Things can literally go back to this with zero negative consequences. The only parents that are upset about this are the ones with deeply co-dependent relationships with their kids. My wife is a teacher and when her school briefly had kids put their phones in pouches, a lot of her students told her they felt relief from feeling like they have to check their phone constantly. This ban will help with teacher burnout too. Teachers spend a ridiculous amount of time trying to get their students to put their phones away. It should have been put into law years ago. Also, the teachers don’t have time to check their phone during class, so the comment about role modeling is complete bullshit.
a lot of her students told her they felt relief from feeling like they have to check their phone constantly.
There is something deeply messed up about this. I see people do that and I cannot understand it at all. Or getting a text, like it will be there an hour from now or even tomorrow when I get around to reading it.
I bring this up because just today I saw people trying to teach seniors (over 55 years old) how to let go checking on their phones all the time.
Seems like a human condition problem, so how do we help people learn not to feel this way?
Also: I know some schools that allow cell phones, they are just another tool after all. The kids don’t really use them much because they are expected to be present for class, not wasting time on the phone. It helps A LOT that their class sizes range from 8 to 12 kids. Partnering kids with each other, and constant engagement during class seams to really help.
