You must log in or # to comment.
We’ve known this was a potential issue since the 60’s. The 1860’s.
As of the 90’s, scientists were saying that increased CO2 presence in the atmosphere could lead to global warming. The 1890’s.
Yeah… Gets pretty old pretty quick hearing my older relatives scepticism around climate change while our seasons get visibly more extreme year over year.
Heatwaves of >30C were literally unheard in my area when I was younger, yet now they occur multiple times in a single summer.
And same with the cold snaps in the winter. It was rare when I was younger, and now it also happens multiple times a winter.
Its like people see all this and yet still can’t put two and two together that maybe this is the climate change scientists have been crazily screaming into the apathetic void about for the last half a century.
And worse still, some will say “its natural for the climate to change over time”. Which is true… OVER CENTURIES of geological time!! These extreme climate changes over the matter of a couple of decades are not the same as the natural shifts in climate over time!
My well-educated dad used to deny climate change as late as maybe 10 years ago. Recently he always goes real quiet whenever the topic comes up, and doesn’t raise it himself anymore. I wish it would feel good as a late win.
Same here. I used to talk politics with my family, but over the past two years it’s slowly brought up less and less and they’re not nearly as enthusiastic as they were before. It’s hard to feel good about that when everything is objectively worse.
A relative of mine lives in the north. He was so excited for winter, he was gonna finally compete in a dog sled race (well, assist another competitor, which he knew was a gateway for him). He had this whole roadtrip planned to Idaho for it and based his entire winter around making it happen.
Now, if you don’t follow the weather in Idaho (I know I didn’t), you might not know they canceled several dog sled races this year due to lack of snow. All across the country apparently a bunch got cancelled.
Guy is still repping his Maga pride, even after pointing out Trump’s coal fetish is directly responsible for his winter being ruined, it doesn’t click.
A 30C heatwave happened once per century before the year 2000. There was one in 1976 and they talked about that one for decades. Then after 2000 it became normal and now we just had one in spring.
Of course many folks jump up you just have to adapt to the changing weather. Yes, we’re adapting. Events get canceled because of heat or thunder storms. Schools and public instances are holding out their hands for more tax money for cooling. Turns out, that was not the adapting they had in mind.
In the 80s while growing up, 30°C in Vienna, Austria was a real heatwave.
We’ve hit 40°C before summer even officially started this year.
I still think about Bernie Sanders’ debate with Hillary where they were asked the top threat to America. His response wasn’t terrorism or drugs or crime. It was Global Warming.
He pointed out that global warming was causing a lot of worldwide problems related to resource scarcity. I found it interesting and wonder how much worse it has gotten since 2016.
Him becoming a US president would have been something
It saddens me that we were robbed of this man’s presidency, but I do think he made such an impact that we’re already seeing his model copied at various levels. Mahmdani being the biggest recent win.
So fucking selfish man…
Do you people not even consider that billionaires got to buy another yacht? Or another island? You dirty communists just want to stop these billionaires from owning a 65th yacht just so you can what? Not sweat to death? … fucking selfish people…
I think this kind of replay only works in favor of turning off any productive conversations
While I understand the importance of having productive conversations I was just making a dumb joke hoping to make someone laugh at a shitty situation. I wasn’t really looking to have a conversation about whether we should keep kicking the can down the road.
It’s not this guy’s responsibility to foster productive conversations around Global Warming.
In a very real sense I’d say this sort of thing belongs in Leopards Ate My Face.
There are a lot of these people who are all of a sudden “Oh, this was not just doomsaying on the part of some radical scientists, this is a real thing.” Now that they’re actually experiencing the consequences of the last 40 years of complete and total inaction, they are expressing their regret. And, I’m sorry but you all voted for this. You all actively decided to ignore the problem because it was not affecting you at the time. And you didn’t really think it would ever actually affect you. And now that it is, you’re sad about it. And a lot of these people were even mocking people like Greta Thunberg for her anger at the complete indifference to the global climate crisis we were headed towards. And, to that and them, I say fuck you! We all tried to warn you and you simply ignored us. And now we are all in the same sinking boat together. And for my money, you deserve any and all hardships that you experience due to this climate crisis.
Gore won his election and the supreme court took it away from us. You can’t blame the voters completely, at least in the USA.
And then you all shrugged and said, “this is fine”
Agree, welcome to the fucking conversation pal, too bad you had to be bitch slapped across the face before you realized it was heading right for you all this time.
I personally have been prepping, bought property in areas that will fare better, hopefully, trying to be more independent with food and focusing on community. Looking into solar to get off grid. And the biggest, not having kids because I didn’t want to doom anyone to this purposefully. The signs were all there, some of us paid attention.
But also I would be overjoyed to see people go this far in their understanding of the issue. Covid really made me lose faith in the ability of people to understand and accept the reality around them.
And a lot of these people were even mocking people like Greta Thunberg for her anger at the complete indifference to the global climate crisis we were headed towards
These are the types of people who will never admit that this was wrong. Even if they eventually admit that climate change is real, they will never apologize for that behavior.
One of the frustrating things is people acting like they were engaging this discussion in good faith decades ago. They’ve gotten away with being extraordinarily selfish for most of their lives, and now turn around and go oops.
This had already been explained to them and they refused to listen when the whole world depended on it.
Is this guy better than someone still denying it now? Sure, whatever. We’re still allowed to be mad at them for the damage they’ve done, like a vandal who suddenly stops and apologizes.
The petrol psyops really did a number on humanity
vandalism is based tho, graffiti is the highest form of art
“Only now is it clicking???” They literally said they believed in it! This thread is a perfect example of why so much of the fediverse is fucking insufferable. This is not a climate change denier, you fucking morons. So determined to find enemies absolutely everywhere that when someone says something as innocuous as “several years ago I hadn’t noticed the physical changes yet,” hundreds of people are upvoting unproductive, misdirected, snide mockery.
You fucking moron, so determined to find enemies absolutely everywhere. Unlike me.
I thought I was going insane reading through these comments until yours, hard agree. People here legit just want to direct their anger at anyone saying anything.
Yeah, I have no sympathy. If you can’t handle me flaming you for being a sleepwalking dipshit then you haven’t fucking learned anything, you’re just jumping on the zeitgeist because you’re a fucking parrot.
I’ve had nightmares about climate change since I was about 10 years old. I’m 32 now. I have been watching everyone around me sleepwalk into this as if nothing matters, now I’m expected to feel bad for this fucking monkey because they’ve suddenly woken up?
No, fuck that and fuck them — this type of person is the reason fascism is winning around the world.
Well, I maybe have good news for this person… AMOC collapse is an anticipated effect of global warming and it would paradoxically make it much, much colder in Ireland. As in “Ice Age” colder.
When?
That’s the trillion-Euro question, and the answer so far is “between 15 years and never,” but some researchers have said they are seeing early signs of the current weakening. It’s a controversial topic in climate research, but it’s one of lose “low probability, high impact” events that can’t be safely ignored.
I’m convinced it’s “when, not if” given our collective inaction
Two days before the day after tmrw.
Take a scientist’s estimate and watch as a select few in power with no self-preservation instinct divide that number in half.
It does not conclude it would make it much, much colder. It concludes the collapse would reduce the addition of heat from AMOC to the area but does not seem to include heat addition from anything else, like global warming itself. AMOC collapse may just offset heating from elsewhere. It is not confidently known what will happen. But we’ll likely get to find out first hand.
That’s pretty pedantic. If AMOC stops supplying heat, of course Western Europe will get colder. We don’t know exactly by how much or what other effects are in play by then, but it stands to reason Western Europe will get much colder than if they still had AMOC
It doesn’t stand to reason, the climate is too complex to make such assumptions. The only thing you know is AMOC won’t add heat, but that will change all kind of climate conditions as temperature impact climate significantly, so it isn’t confidently known what exactly will happen, overall.
This graph should be the easiest to understand explanation anybody needs.
A friend of mine went to Ireland one summer about 20ish years ago. Never once did it get above 20 degrees and it rained most days. Someone I know in Mexico grew up in a town where the architecture is designed around rain. The buildings downtown all have roofs overhanging the sidewalks because it used to rain most days, so they designed things to shelter pedestrians. The place also had an airport, but it was unusable most of the time because it was too foggy / rainy. These days it only rains occasionally and can be mid-30s for several months of the year.
There are a lot of places where people used to need heating in the winter, but the summers were brief but pleasant. Now, in a lot of places the winters are still brutal, but now summer days get so hot that air conditioning is also a necessity.
But, what worries me most is farming. Farmers need predictable seasons. If they know the summer will be warmer and dryer they can sometimes switch to different crops. That doesn’t work if there’s unpredictable weeks-long rain when it’s time to harvest.
Humanity is resilient, and humans will survive. But, being a living human in 2226 might be awful. Enjoying the outdoors might just not be something people can’t do anymore. All the natural ecosystems of the world might have collapsed, and people just eat nacho-flavoured protein paste and dream about what it was like to eat a raspberry.
South Park mirrors this. Since its a show which acts as social commentary and pokes fun at current events, they did Al Gore dirty and made fun of him for supposedly believing in imaginary climate change (man bear pig). 10 years later, they made episodes saying he was right.
There is also a futurama episode about global warming.
Whoever called it a “climate warming” should be shot in the head. Because yes, yes it is warming in general, but the choice to call it that was terrible. It’s summer, temperature is below 20C today, my neighbors are saying “where the fuck is climate warming? those idiots said it will be hot!”
It should be called climate destabilization, focusing not on hot/cold but on extreme weather.
That’s why they changed it to “climate change”.
Yea but then some mouth-breather goes “the climate has always changed iver time!” while ignoring the fact that it often came with extinction events, and also happened over a much longer time than a handful of generations.
Nothing you call it will ever satisfy the people who need Climate Change to be wrong to preserve their pride.
The fact is that they are just regurgitating what they were told, so they will never take a real stance or think about it. At least the poster in the image is finally breaking out of the trance, even if it is 40 years later than he should have.
They’ve just been lied to again and again and don’t understand the science. I’ve actually managed to change a few people’s minds by pointing out 4 facts that if true mean climate change is real.
- CO2 reflects infrared energy
- CO2 gets trapped in our atmosphere
- Humans have released millions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere
- It’s getting hotter and hotter.
I generally challenge them to disprove these facts and offer to help them with sources validating them if they’d like. I think understanding the way CO2 works to reflect heat is the thing that usually convinces them, because they just don’t understand how greenhouse gasses could make it hotter.
“Global warming” is the accurate term. So that is what they called it. Science is not now nor has it ever been about branding and populism. The world is, as a whole, becoming warmer and that is leading to the complete destabilization of climate systems across the globe. But the fact is that it is incredibly hard to predict the total outcome of global warming and climate change. So making predictions becomes a very dangerous game. And I would like to add that when they saw that the phrase “global warming” was not getting enough attention they changed it to “climate change” to try to be more accurate in a way that people would understand better (see the dipshit congressman who brought a snowball on to the Congressional floor to “prove that global warming was fake”). But then that backfired too because climate change doesn’t sound quite so dangerous. So most people felt completely comfortable in totally ignoring it.
There’s also the problem of the consequences of global warming and climate change are future problems that people don’t believe they have to worry about right now. There’s a very real “fix it in the future” attitude that has become prevalent in society. And the problem with that is, of course, we can’t fix it in the future. Because once the destabilization of the global climate system starts, there is virtually nothing we can do to stop it. We may be able to mitigate some of the effects. But not the long-term destruction of the environment that we have become so accustomed to living in.
I wish it was 20C it’s 37 here and it’s unbearable. It definitely is hot, of course it’s not hot everywhere.
It’s not inaccurate per se to say global warming because on a planetary level that is what’s happening. The planet is getting hotter. But it is going to be cool if it’s very windy or after a storm, that’s to be expected.
This is why it’s frustrating. It’s not a lie, it’s not wrong, it just fuels anti-climate-change crowd.
During last 30 days my region had:
- above 30C
- below 20C
- thunderstorms
- strong winds
But because it’s summer, the “below 20C” is the one people usually focus on. “If there is global warming, how come summers are colder?”
In fact ever since COVID my region had much colder summers…
Yeah it’s not helped by the fact that there’s no real consensus in climate science about what will happen. I’ve seen models that run from global desertification to an ice age.
That disparity is because there is more than one runaway trigger involved and which one hits first decides the way we go.
I’m not saying that a thing’s label doesn’t matter, but there are a couple important facts to keep in mind:
- A label is not enough space to fully communicate any idea.
- A person’s willingness to disagree is not rational.
If I could pretend to be a conservative, uh… pedophile for a moment, what might I say about “climate destabilization”?
- That’s not going to happen; that’s ridiculous.
- We go through seasons and extreme weather all the time—what’s “stable” about that?
- You’re some alarmist tree-hugger just trying to scare people, aren’t you?
- If destabilization is so bad, companies would never let it happen. Why would they when they need the planet too?
- “Destabilization”, brought to you by the same irrational, ruled-by-fear people who can’t handle an unloaded gun being in the same room as them—heh heh!
- What does destabilization mean, anyway? Like, one more hurricane a year? Just don’t live in Florida.
- “Oh no! The climate is destabilizing!”—meanwhile in reality, birds are chirping, nothing has changed.
- Everything “destabilizes”; man makes plans, God laughs.
- We all have ACs and heaters now anyway, so what’s the problem exactly?
All of these bullet points come from the same place: what you’re suggesting, that climate change is a problem, is both a lot of difficult effort to solve and very scary to think about. So, emotionally, they just refuse to. It’s easier to refuse to. You don’t have to live anxiously if you refuse to.
There are a large number of complicated and diverse sociological reasons why climate change isn’t taken seriously, and making the label scarier would only really be effective if it represented an across-the-board rhetorical tactic to scare the public into action. That means posters, flyers, ads on television, tv programs and movies, fiction and non-fiction, politicians who will not shut up about it, constant news about the worst-case scenarios and what people watching need to do right now to stop it, companies who pollute being depicted as evil and villainous and a threat to us right now and legally blocked from being allowed to advertise for themselves (e.g. tobacco companies).
Climate change needs strong, inciting propaganda, and for the last 50 years has had very piss-poor propaganda, mostly because money doesn’t want it to.
The only problem I see with your explanation is that it seems to boil down to defeatism:
- emotional people are more numerous than rational people
- emotional people cannot be convinced, any argument will get shot down
- politicians in any democratic society will follow majority opinion
So… why bother? It’s a fight minority cannot win and majority does not consider to be worthwhile or even real.
Also - I honestly hate the american meaning of word “conservative”. Conservative should be someone who wants the law of his country to stay as it is, not be changed. Republicans are not conservatives, they are radicals. Conservative is someone who responds to idea like for example “gay marriage” with logic “if this was legal when I was a kid, it should be legal now and in the future”.
In my country when you say “organization of pedophiles” we either think Catholics or Americans…
emotional people cannot be convinced,
I’m actually not saying this.
To be effective at convincing people, you need to get to the core of what is driving their beliefs.
A pessimist, for instance, cannot see a beautiful sunset. Not until they can learn how to see love.
It may be that their life is falling apart right now, and they feel abandoned by what were their friends, and that this isolation makes the sunset feel trivial and stupid to care about when they have real problems to solve.
It may be that they are irritated by crowds and so dislike going outside, and they reject the beautiful sunset because to accept that they cannot see it would make them grieve.
I gave us a solution for action around climate change: strong propaganda. A fight-forward message in a cultural climate that believes in its ability to win. These are things we can build, I’m just describing the nature of the problem.
Conservative should be someone who wants the law of his country to stay as it is, not be changed. Republicans are not conservatives, they are radicals.
Well, Republicans are fascists.
And, a lot of American Conservatives would think that they are exactly what you say a conservative should be. I mean, gay marriage wasn’t legal when they were kids, they think they want to regress to the society of when it was, to conserve those laws—but this is because they are stupid, dumb animals that must be corralled like sheep toward the future.
I don’t have a lot of sympathy for any politic in any country that fears change as a concept. It’s honestly anti-intellectual.
they are stupid, dumb animals that must be corralled like sheep toward the future
Hm, this is what Nazis and Communists both said about my countrymen. The idea that fearing change is anti-intellectual… hmm… anti-abortion laws are changes too, introducing mass surveillance is also a change. Not every change is as good as you imply.
Change as a concept, not any individual change.
You’re really going to have to work with me to not read every comment in the most uncharitable way possible. Nothing about that first comment was “defeatist”, that’s a battle in your mind only.
If you don’t believe in the power to build, then you believe in regression de facto. You don’t get points for being pro gay marriage if you’re also anti-immigration.
Where I am, we’ve been getting pretty heavy rain during 100F/37C heat, and it’s kind of unnerving how quickly it dries up.
How to win over the masses, though? Most people know about climate change, they’ll say it’s terrible and something should be done, but aren’t ready to make any personal sacrifices to do something about it. How do we get them to give up eating meat or taking planes
By changing our economic system so that external costs are internalized.
Yeah. I hate that people think this can be fixed with a few idividual changes. We will need to change our entire way of thinking or nature will make us change.
I didn’t mean a few individual changes. A few vegetarians traveling by bicycle aren’t going to make a difference. But you can’t only change economic incentives without changing consumption patterns. We will also need to move to plant based diets, reduce tourism, save water, etcetera.
That’s where I see most resistance now. It’s not people who don’t believe in climate change, but people who acknowledge the problem until they have to sacrifice some luxury they enjoy. Then it’s always somebody else who has to change first
The moment you mention anything that could help you get people suddenly pretending that they give a shit about the poor.
Here is a random idea though. x10 energy fees with the first 6000kWh of electricity free (or very cheap) per year. No reductions for gas and oil. The poor were already not using much energy, if you actually care about them, this will actually reduce their energy bills.
Its hardly a new model either, phone data works the same kind of way, just monthly rather than annually.
End meat subsidies. Then it’ll be too expensive.
What personal sacrifices are you making?
I stopped eating meat or flying planes completely. I have accepted that not flying limits my career opportunities. In my home, I electrified heating and cooking. I am saving for an EV but my current car is still doing fine. I hardly use my car, do my daily commute by bike. I go to protests against aviation, against fossil fuels and for the climate. I donate to climate causes. I teach my kids to consider the environment and climate in almost everything we do. I probably forget a lot of other small things, I am extremely climate conscious.
But this is just me. It’s like voting. No individual is going to make any difference here. If loads of people do the same, maybe. The real resistance is about taxes, consumption, meat eating, flying. People must be forced to do more or it will only be more expensive later
Do you have a smartphone? Do you use social media, cloud services, streaming services, A.I. services?
What the fuck
I am willing to give all of that up, but you’re literally that “yet you participate in society” meme. This isn’t about me
What are you getting at?
I’m just saying, I know a hypocrite when I see one.
You’re on lemmy right now, do you need a mirror or is your head already so far up your own ass you can see the hypocrite from the inside?
I never proclaimed to be holier than thou.
What an ass argument.
“Helping a starving orphan is pointles, because you are not helping every starving orphan”
You, as many others, are missing the point. It’s so easy to point fingers at everyone else and think that you are saving the environment by cutting down on meat and fossil fuels, while forgetting the invisible sinners. Most people don’t give their digital life a second thought because the environmental impact isn’t always obvious.
And all of you biting my head of for stating this is just hilarious.
You’re just wrong. First of all, I am making a lot of personal sacrifices. You can’t lob the hypocrite accusation at me, it’s laughable.
But more importantly, this isn’t about individual choices but overcoming resistance to collective action. We should all move to a plant based diet, we should all stop flying for vacation, we should all pay way more taxes to reduce climate damage, but people aren’t ready to accept that yet. They’ll say climate change is bad and should be stopped, but the minute a politician proposes anything meaningful, they’ll be out of a job.
And when you point out it’s going to be costly and people aren’t ready for that yet, some douchebag on the internet calls you a hypocrite
“this isn’t about individual choices”
Why are you doing it then?
i miss snow
Just said this to my elderly neighbour this evening. Even my eldest kids have seen fuck all snow in their lifetime. We once woke my daughter in the middle of the night for snow is how rare it’s gotten here.
I remember walking around in 30cm / a foot of snow as a kid.
