I never will understand how somebody gets into any facet of medicine (e.g. nurse, doctor, pharmacist) and find it okay to deny anybody healthcare solely based on how the person lives. Like dude, there are better ways to make money and be a bigot at the same time. Insurance CEO comes to mind. Cannon fodder as well.
What if the patient is a health care CEO who is known for denying health care to others?
Make sure to leave out the patient name and occupation when filling out the healthcare paperwork to see if they are covered for whatever procedures they need.
Hippocratic Oath. So you turn off their life support obviously
I would still help them, I may stab right after tho.
Oh I’m sorry, I can’t seem to find the vein. Gosh, have you been drinking enough fluids?
Same answer to both; cowardly traditionalist afraid to speak their minds.
From traditional/conservative families which value the status of being a doctor, not the “helping patients” part. Prejudiced.
On a similar vein, I don’t understand doctors who are young earth creationists. Your whole job is understanding biology.
The absolute gall they have to call it a “lifestyle” like people choose to live that way one day
It’s not a fucking lifestyle, LGBTQ+ people just are and they exist
They don’t choose to suddenly be that way one day, they have been that way their entire life and discover that about themselves
"Ah, but they choose to act on it! You see, my old preacher struggled with gay thoughts all the time because of Satan. He told us so nearly every Sunday. But did he act on them? No! He was straight, just as god intended.
So those people having gay thoughts are CHOOSING to be gay when they could pray and get a wife and have children like the lord said."
-Some dipshit I know
“He resisted his homosexual urges, and remained faithful to his heterosexual wife until the very day he shot himself.”
“You know what I’m talking about; the homosexual fantasies the devil constantly sends into everyone’s heads since they became teenagers. Those ones. … What do you mean ‘no’?”
Tangentially related, or at least it made me think of it.
Orson Scott Card said this:
Ender’s childhood is based, albeit loosely, on my own; his relationship with Peter and Valentine is based, not on my actual relationship with my older brother and sister, but rather on the way I conceived those relationships to be when I was Ender’s age. Ender’s revised understanding of Peter late in life parallels in emotion the same revision I went through in my teens as I discovered… my childish view of my older brother was hopelessly wrong
For those that don’t know, Peter abused the hell out of Ender. Not a huge spoiler. Another time he said this:
The dark secret of homosexual society … is how many homosexuals first entered into that world through a disturbing seduction or rape or molestation or abuse
Then he went on to write several of the same character. Either homosexual or asexual who takes a wife in order to raise children. But it’s literally never about the woman. Anton was mostly open about his sexuality but married a woman. Ender had no sexual urges (there was a lot of underage homo-adjacent stuff and some sister stuff, but not necessarily gay) until he married. And did he marry her for her? Nope. The first thing he thinks of is how her 6 kids need him. Ansset is gay and married a woman. It’s pretty obvious he believes a lot of folks are gay because they were abused and it’s pretty obvious he was abused. And he believes those men should get married and raise children because that’s the highest calling.
I’m not usually a “homophobic means closeted homosexual” but I’m of the firm belief that Card is so far in the closet he’s finding Christmas presents.
He also wrote Wyrm (teenage girl is biologically destined to be impregnated by worm monster, that’s literally what the entire book is about) and Harts Hope (our hero has to rape a teenage princess in front of her entire kingdom for reasons, this turns her evil and she becomes the main antagonist.)
Card’s fucked up a lot more than “closet gay.”
I act on all the homosexual urges I have. They just happen to be zero. If you have homosexual urges it’s likely because you’re gay. I’m not really sure why this concept is so hard especially for the ultra religious….
Or they’re bi. I grew up ultra religious and the choice explanation made more sense to me because I had both homo and hetero urges, and I assumed it was the same for everyone (I thought of people who claimed otherwise as self-righteous). In my mind at the time homosexual urges were just part of people’s sinful nature they had to overcome. The whole thing only seems so incoherent from an outside perspective, which I was fortunately able to arrive at after experiencing the world more.
Yeah I bet that was confusing. Being brought up that homosexuality was a choice and you had feelings for both would have been difficult at best, especially before you had a chance to really see how it all worked.
Something like this is what encouraged my wife’s conservative grandmother to reconsider her thoughts on the topic. She heard about a gay teen who committed suicide and asked “if it was a choice, why wouldn’t they just choose not to be gay instead of killing themselves?”
“if it was a choice, why wouldn’t they just choose not to be gay instead of killing themselves?”
Props to gramma. A lot of conservative people honestly just would dismiss it with the backwards logic; “so stupid of them to kill themselves when they could’ve just chosen not to be gay”.
I’m unsure whether they actually believe it themselves, though.
As I said to my parents when they said something similar:
Not everyone is a 0 or 6 on the Kinsey scale. Plenty of people have some amount of choice. But not everyone is a 3, either. Most people have a preference. And some people are a 0 or 6. Just because one person with “gay temptations” successfully lived as a heterosexual doesn’t mean everyone can. The world is more complicated than that.
Here’s the thing, whether or not it’s a “lifestyle” shouldn’t even enter into the equation. Healthcare workers are supposed to treat everyone the same, regardless of what the patient has done or how they live. If you can’t deal with that, don’t go into healthcare.
Well, it’s a bit of both. The ostracized nature of ‘different’ people has spawned several sub-cultures that most ‘different’ people fall in to to some degree or another.
Not that anything is wrong with either being different or living differently. Hegemonic monocultures are so… fucking… BORING.
I’ve even seen it flipped around by the people who invented the term in the first place. “They call it a lifestyle, but that’s a euphemism for gross behavior”. Well, not those exact words. “Euphemism” has too many syllables for their education level.
Not suddenly, but gradually
Very much not true for all. Some realise things over time, but most were born like they are. Some also do choose things, but it’s a very small percentage and that in no way makes it any less important to accept and support.
They gradually do not choose to be themselves? I don’t understand.
M137 understood what I meant.
I believe that people are born with the same primitive instincts as everyone else, (survive and reproduce) but they gradually begin to develop their own feelings and sense of being. Some natural, some by trauma, etc, overcoming the expectations of your parents being the biggest hurdle.
I’m just simply saying that people aren’t born knowing they’re a part of that community until they’ve come to a realization or a spark.
Just my opinion. Just how I observed a family member and his experiences. Sadly, no one accepted him and he’s gone now. But I read his journals about how he felt, came to being, etc afterwards. Just wanted to understand.
“I refuse to treat left handed people. It’s a lifestyle I don’t agree with.”
This was or maybe even still is a thing. My grandpa was forced to wear a sock on his left hand when learning to write as a child. He would be hit if he didn’t.
Human beings were obviously a terrible idea.
In the beginning, the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move.
I still think Jennifer Love Hewitt was a great idea.
Woah…
Forgot about her
Back then he would be hit either way I wish I could go back to being a kid and approach adults discipling me with my current knowledge.
I’d ask for beatings and pretend to get pleasure from them. I bet suddenly you get no more beatings.
Stupid sexy Flanders…
“Is this career path okay with discrimination? Because I have groups I want to die.”
It is important to consider both sides on any issue. Thank you for keeping things Fair and Balanced.
/s
I don’t trust anything about this… meme? I don’t know what we call context-less clips of other people’s comments that get circulated.
Whatever it is, it is trying to sound positive but it’s implying some false narratives. It’s implying that this is a common or new issue that professors are always dealing with, that there’s some common wave of pushback against treating LGBTQ patients. If you’re studying to be a doctor or healthcare professional, most likely you already don’t give half a fuck about someone’s gender identity or sexuality unless it impacts their treatment. (Yes there are some bigoted healthcare professionals out there, but they’re not the norm.)
The narrative here is making it seem like poor, naive students are now suddenly worried about how they’re going to deal with all these trans and gay people flooding the healthcare industry.
If it’s not subtly trying to introduce a false narrative like this, it’s serving that purpose all the same and should be buried and not circulated any further.
As someone who attends a medical school attached to a religious university, I can tell you this is a mindset that exists quite commonly in the medical field. Many of these people get careers in the multitudes of Catholic hospitals that abuse religious freedom laws to deny certain kinds of healthcare and face absolutely no repercussions for their persistent bigotry.
Medical malpractice is a huge issue for LGBT people - especially trans people who require specific care and are therefore much easier to spot. It’s honestly a big issue in the sciences in general, and it’s definitely not a new issue, but more likely against specific groups. Women are much more likely to have to be their own advocates to get proper care, often being denied pain medication, told that they’re just making up their symptoms, or having their agency denied or choice of treatment being deferred to their husbands (generally when it comes to things that might affect sex, such as surgeries to constrict the vagina after giving birth or having their uterus removed due to medical issues).
And it’s not just that trans people often have to understand HRT at a doctorate level in order to fight for their right to the proper care and treatment that they deserve. I have read plenty of stories of trans people being denied care by bigoted healthcare workers - even a case of a woman in New York who only found out she had an aggressive form of cancer after the technician who diagnosed her tests called her to ask her how her chemo was going. Her doctor simply never told her the diagnosis and the only reason that she’s still alive is because of that technician who made sure that she got proper treatment after the shock of hearing that she didn’t even know that she had cancer.
Bias affects medicine all the way up the chain, from how nurses treat you to what gets taught in schools and even what fields get research funding. I taught my therapist pretty much everything he knows about transgender people, for example - because he’s older and they didn’t teach about trans people. And I have no qualifications in the field other than being trans and therefore having to teach myself to ensure I get proper care. Many doctors don’t know about trans specific medical care despite HRT starting to be researched in the 1920s in Germany (and only reappearing at the end of the 20th century after the Nazis burnt all the research). The medical field is taught based on the white body of a specific weight, which leaves out the differences in care that black people and people above or below that weight require. We only really started looking into what exactly female ejaculate is in the past 30 years or so. AIDS research was denied funding by the US government for at least a year while roughly 120 Americans died of AIDS every day, during which time all bottled medication was pulled from stores and the safety seal was developed and implemented over the course of 3 months because somebody poisoned a couple of bottles of Advil with cyanide.
It’s not a new issue, but it’s become more prevalent in recent years as people like the student above have become emboldened by recent events - like the rulings that say that doctors don’t have to treat certain people if it would “violate their religious beliefs.”
I mean, this is correct. You take the oath, you have to live up to it. You will be treating people you don’t agree with, and you have to square up with that, or your rep will take a dive.
What I always find funny about this is, back when I used to do IT, if I refused to do something for someone who had bible verses on their office wall or a cross necklace I would be the one fired.
In many countries it’s illegal to refuse treatment so you would literally have to find a new career
But of course in the Christian-sharia-law state of Tennessee, doctors can refuse patients if they don’t fit their values or whatever. A woman was refused prenatal care because she wasn’t married.
This type of stuff is extremely concerning to me. My ability to get life saving medical treatment is based on the whimsy of some superficial judgment some random doctor makes about me? There is no way this can be legal.
Hey now take comfort in the fact that their lives are in the hands of God. Pfft nah it’s in the hands of anyone willing to shank them for being a sanctimonious self righteous profligate. Frankly speaking if someone nearly died or dies because of such a scenario where they denied IDK sutures or some shit for religious reasons they wholly deserve to be processed through a morgue incinerator while still alive.
it’s also against their Hippocratic oath.
A friend of mine is a devout Muslim from a very conservative family and a doctor: he believes that his faith has no place in his job and therefore treats all his patients equally.
I think fundamentalists of all religions should take a leaf out of his book.
Please give him my gratitude for his level of professionalism. I mean it. We need more people like your doctor friend in the world today.
His faith demands he treat all patients equally:
“whoever saves a life, it will be as if they saved all of humanity” Qur’an 5:32
Nor can he impose his beliefs on others:
“Let there be no compulsion in religion” Qur’an 2:256
Someone being LGBT doesn’t mean McDonald’s is allowed to refuse them service, or ESSO is allowed to refuse to sell them gas, or a gym can refuse them membership. Why the fuck do you think a doctor should be allowed to refuse them treatment for a disease?
Someone being LGBT doesn’t mean McDonald’s is allowed to refuse them service, or ESSO is allowed to refuse to sell them gas, or a gym can refuse them membership.
Patience, patience … the GOP is working on this as well.
Technically they aren’t. By their plan, someone who is LGBT couldn’t be refused service at McDonalds because they are to be arrested and thrown in jail on sight. Like, how would they have even gotten into McDonalds much less have the gall to ask for a Big Mac?..
Finally someone is doing something.
/s
Doesn’t this fall under the Hippocratic oath anyways? Or am I mistaken
The oath is a promise, not a law. People break promises all the time.
If you are POTUS you get to break the law all the time too.
Yes, but it’s an ethical promise, so they are saying healthcare professionals have shady ethics.
not mistaken, but certain roles like pharmacists, cashiers, nurses, dentists and lab techs dont take that oath. Many doctors now take alternate oaths too, not the original oath.
The Hippocratic oath doesn’t cover this at all and actually explicitly forbids abortion and euthanasia. It’s really quite antiquated which is why I wrote an oath for myself that I hold to.
There’s a lot of debate about the specific meanings of the text, but there are many Christian physicians that will latch onto those passages as an excuse to apply their own beliefs to patient care. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath
Interesting
Wasn’t there a bakery that won a case allowing them not to sell wedding cakes to gay couples?
No. The supreme court case you’re thinking of only ruled that the state commission acted unfairly towards the bakery, not necessarily that the bakery was right or wrong in their discrimination.
Yes…The Colorado Commission ruled against him but the Supreme Court said he didn’t have to let them eat cake.
What? They can totally do those things. They are private businesses who can reject whomever they want. Protected classes are only protected for things like housing, employment, and public things (school/utilities/etc.)
If that were true, the US would still have segregated lunch counters, grocery stores, and private buses. The Supreme Court may be getting us on the way there one day, but right now the only way that private businesses are allowed to discriminate against protected classes is to call the output work a “creative expression” like website design, floral arrangement, or cake decoration, and that’s from the 303 Creative case.
Besides, how would it make sense if a company could bar you as a customer for being gay, but be compelled to employ you?
There is no federal law that bans discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity in public accommodations, like restaurants, theaters and other businesses. However, state and local laws where you live may ban this kind of discrimination.
It’s called public accommodation, and it illegal to discriminate in public accommodations. Did you fall asleep in the part of history class where they talked about segregated lunch counters?
This would never fly in today’s era. Nor should it.
But about two decades ago I dated a gastroenterologist… I think she had around 13 years of schooling.
Anyways, her first day of med school, they made the entire class watch gay porn. Like vicious, graphic, excessively graphic gay porn.
With of course the professor saying if this makes you uncomfortable, you’d best find a new track. Because you ain’t going to make it, this is going to be your life: assholes, boils, pus, cancer, shit, piss, if you’re going to be a gastroenterologist you’re going to have your head up people’s asses your whole career…
Etc
And then there were those who got a rock-hard boner and wondered for a completely different reason if this career was for them.
Lol
Apparently this was not boner porn nor wap porn.
By the retelling, its was nailing balls to a step stool kind of porn.
Ah, I remember that one. 96 was a crazy year!
Germans itt be like… vanilla ball-nailing pr0n… yawn
Well, there’s always
Wtf 😂
This would never fly in today’s era. Nor should it.
I believe we already have individual states that allow health care providers to refuse care based on their religious beliefs.
So unfortunately, it seems to be flying alright.
Pretty sure they were speaking in reference to the anecdote they were about to relay.
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Wonder if there were any jars involved…that would be a pretty unfortunate situation.
Damn straight. Same thing for pharmacists or any other health official.
If medical professionals are punished for refusing to treat patients because of race, then the same goes for refusing to treat someone for “having different lifestyle”.
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Some think they know biology sooo well, and that LGBTs are anomalies not worthy of life
Hospital worker here. No amount of education can undo the dogma of right wing extremism. You wouldn’t think hateful bigots would be counted among nurses, doctors, etc since they literally spent years studying exactly why they should know better.
But then Fox or some preacher starts hating on trans folks and suddenly their medical knowledge about the community is just straight into the dumpster.
They need to be fired.
That line of thinking also breaks down once you consider that life itself is the OG anomaly, and that the evolution of complex life was fueled by a never ending torrent of anomalies.
Because of their religious beliefs. Someday as a nation we need to reconcile religious freedom with freedom from other peoples religious ideas. We generally just give religious people whatever they want, presumably to shut them up and make them go away-- but that doesnt work.
Excellent. And they can take the pharmacists who have “personal or religious beliefs” and get rid of them too. No one should need to ask some other citizen’s personal permission for a service I contracted with my own doctor and medical company.
There are even some drug store cashiers that will refuse to sell condoms. Americans need to learn that if it doesnt affect you personally, its not their place to pretend they are a stakeholder in anyone else’s life. Stay in your effing lane, American healthcare workers. No one cares what you dont like or what your personal sky-fairy tells you. Last I heard “freedom of religion” was actually more “freedom from the tyranny of religion” when it was implemented by the nations founders.
While they are at it, Americans should stay out of other peoples bedrooms too. If they arent part of the situation, they don’t get a vote. As long as its consensual between two adult humans, its no one elses business what they do in there. <eagle cry of freedom right here>
It is sad that this is apparently considered to be impressive or even noteworthy.
It immediately makes my “Manipulation Sense” tingle. They are making it sound like this is a common or reasonable question from their students. Or that this is some kind of new issue that doctors are dealing with.
So either there really is a new wave of young up-and-coming health professionals who are absolute dogshit morons for even asking this kind of question, or this is being circulated by someone deliberately trying to stir up shit, I just can’t figure out which direction they’re stirring. (Hint: it doesn’t have to have a direction, misinformation and public discourse sabotage consists of just amplifying all the wildest and most extreme takes on both sides of any issue to keep people from wanting to get involved or trust anything at all.)
I feel like there are a surprisingly large percentage of the population that just take most things at face value. It takes something painfully overt for someone to notice, and it’s usually only spotted on something trivial, like fifty thousand five star raving reviews for a beer coozie on amazon.
Astroturfing is real, and if you don’t think that a government would do it… Wow you have a lot of history to catch up on.
I actually think you’re right
