For the majority of people a 1080p60 with a high bitrate and 10+ bit color space will look absolutely perfect. Some can pixel peep and tell, but more people still struggle seeing when the aspect ratio is wrong on their TV.
I mean, if someone can’t tell when a circle is an oval, it’s the person that is the problem
Last I heard that’s close to 50% of the consumers.
All we want is a clear picture and no ads.
Did you say you want really clear ads? We got just that!
TV manufacturers salivated at the idea of TV resolution, hoping desperately to turn the TV market into something like the PC market, in that you have to upgrade every 5ish years to stay on top of technology and use the latest stuff to artificially increase sales beyond what their already abysmal build qualities provide them.
I’m glad the plan is failing spectacularly.
Hopefully this forces them to think more about quality and start focusing on TVs that actually last now… You know, like we used to have 30 years ago.
I have an fairly high end TV and honestly I don’t know what the point is because there is virtually no content that’s available for it.
Pretty much none of the streaming services go beyond 4K and often they’re at 1080p and I have to upscale to 4K. Consoles also don’t go above that 4k and again often in fact don’t even hit that.
start focusing on TVs that actually last now…
That only makes their “people need to refresh their sets for our bottom line” even worse for them.
BTW, 30 years ago TVs were expensive and still failed. There was a viable TV repair industry because it was worth spending the money to repair and easier to repair.
Anecdotally, my Plasma and my LCDs have been more problem free than when my family had CRT TVs back in the day.
Yeah, exactly. TVs were better back then. they were more durable (The Wiimote accidents would never send a CRT to the dump), and actually repairable.
and they lasted decades. Hell, I’ve seen people find CRT TVs found abandoned in fields for years and bring them back with minimal effort.
as long as the tube/neck of a CRT is intact, it will run/be repairable.
I still have a ~30 year old tube tv that has never needed anything, it still works… But I’ve been through at least 4 HDTVs.
Pfff, they’ve just turned to adware-laden boxes. Next they’ll make up some BS about requiring the device to be Internet connected so you can’t disable ads too easily.
That’s a big part of enshitification: maximizing profit at the sacrifice of product quality. All of those pro-capitalist folk want you to believe the market will correct itself. The problem is when the entire market is dominated by this mentality and anyone (doing anything different) tries to enter that market is snuffed out immediately. None of the major brands will stray from this model because they are completely and hopelessly servant to the shareholder, and all that matters to them is maximizing profits at any cost. Yay enshitification!
Yep, and that added complexity to make a dumb TV smart, just means theres more parts that are likely to die and make ethe TV not work.
Its bullshit that the only way to get large dumb TVs anymore is to roll the dice on a Scepter… Which, given how they procure their screens, could either give you a great TV or a shit TV.
That’s because the answer isn’t higher resolutions, it was legally enforcing h.265 to be open source. Now the solution is AV1, but video codecs shouldn’t be locked down like that.
To act like that was ever in favor of “protecting the sciences” is a fucking joke.
Umm… ok, but that’s not really related to this article…
Everyone ditching H265 in favor af AV1 universally doesn’t make TVs sell any more or any more expensive.
No, my point was that people don’t need higher resolution TV’s, they need good transcodes that don’t look like shit.
Streaming services run at bitrates/codecs that look like dookie compared to bd rips even on my shitty $100 sceptre 1080p Amazon special TV.
Who the fuck is gonna buy an 8K oled panel when no ones willing to conveniently provide content that looks good on it, or even content that pushes their current TV to its fullest extant?
Its not like anyone can afford a GPU that renders modern games at a playable framerate to that either.
Ah, ok, that’s fair. I agree that codec/bitrate choice has made a lot of ostensibly ‘4k’ content look like crap, so why have 8k when many providers/internet connections won’t even cover the requisite detail to drive 4k in streaming.
Fuck.
Now instead of each new generation of TVs being slightly higher in resolution some god damn business tech executive is going to focus on some god damn bullshit to try and change or add which is going be absolutely fucking ridiculous or pointless and annoying like AI television shit or TV gaming or fuck my life. Smart TVs are bad enough but they can’t help themselves they need to change or add shit all the fucking time to “INNOVATE!!!” and show stockholder value.
Resolution was something easy and time consuming but we can’t rely on that keeping them from fucking TV up any more.
4k is a little much for me.
Do you use 27-inch monitors?
If I can make out what everything is, it’s good enough
I do, and I prefer 2560x1440
Yeahhhhh 8K is going to be pretty far off considering we still get 1080p “enhanced” trash with YoutubeTV for sports games. It looks like ass on my good, 4K TV. I can’t imagine that on an 8K display.
Though some sports - like the Unrivaled games on HBO - are of a higher quality, you just don’t get that everywhere.
And that’s just sports. Couple that with the fact that some people still have data caps, and I just don’t see widespread adoption any time soon.
At a certain point yours eyes can’t tell much difference. It is like music, people would obsess over tweaking their stereo systems to the point where I doubt you could physically tell the difference, it was mostly imagined.
Huge tvs also require big rooms to make the viewing angle work. Not everyone has a room they work in. Apartments are especially too small for huge tvs.
The coathanger experiment should have been the coffin lid on all the audiophile/overpriced super ultra premium cable bullshit.
I never knew about this but it’s hilarious: https://www.soundguys.com/cable-myths-reviving-the-coathanger-test-23553/
What’s interesting to me is that film is roughly, perceptually around 8K. However, very very few people have cinema-sized screens in their home, so what’s the point if it’s “only” even 80 inches?
I think giant 8K monitors are still useful for productivity, but only for a small number of people. I personally like having multiple monitors over one big one.
I cannot fathom why, but people do not seem capable of understanding resolution, screen size and viewing distance as important factors that interplay with each other.
8k is absolutely pointless on a 49" TV that is several metres away. However, I will take 4k over 1080 on even a 24" computer screen every time.
That is just me though, your preferences and vision may be different to mine. Same with the monitors. You like multiple screens, I prefer a single larger screen.
A just drop this here…
4K vs 8K on a 49" screen across the room is going to have much less of a noticeable difference than 4K vs 1080p on a 24" screen a foot or two away (dancing around the boundary of retina).
I think an 8K 42" would make a great single monitor for productivity, I just can’t imagine driving 8K at idle is very efficient if there aren’t software/firmware solutions to recognize non-moving screens.
The only real innovation after 1080p for TV was HDR, sound stuff, 60-120hz, and upscaling to 4k.
You missed the 3D which came and went because nothing really supported it.
Only time I used 3D on my TV was playing Black Ops split-screen, where both players got the full screen, which was pretty neat.
Getting rid of my tv was the best thing I did for myself. That’s the future. Removing and reducing all screen time.
For me, the opposite was true. Ever since I injured my knees last year, putting a 75 inch TV in my bedroom has improved my quality of life.
I know people will probably say “oh just fix your knees” and think that sentiment is helping, but I tend to not take my medical advice from technology communities and instead listen to doctors. It makes me sound rude, but it’s true that medical advice should be given by medical professionals for the best outcome possible.
I really do love having a nice big TV in my bedroom.
Trust me this is not a technology community. If anything this is an anti-technology company more so than any other community that I’ve ever been a part of.
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We didnt have one for a long time.
Then we got one for free. So we use it for movies and some gaming together, but we dont have any streaming subscriptions.
I agree it’d be better to not have. But im into old console gaming so I like to have a couple tvs.
Its good to balance it with reading and exercising of course! But movie nights are fun.
I love that for you
I had an upgrade plan for my PC that involved a step up to a 4k monitor, but when the time came, it was hard enough just finding a 4k monitor with decent specs that I stopped to really think about whether I would really benefit from it. I already knew I didn’t need it, but I realized that I wouldn’t even really gain anything from it. I already used the UI scaling with the one 4k monitor I had at work, so that was a wash. And for games, I didn’t really have any times when I wished the resolution was higher than the 1440p I was already using, but I did have times when I wished it would generate the frames faster or more consistently.
Part of the change was a new GPU to handle 4k better (they were supposed to justify each other), but I ended up just getting an ultrawide 1440p monitor instead.
I don’t think I’ll ever bother with higher than 4k for TV or 1440p for PC.
Well, when NFL broadcasts on 720 or 1080i, an 8k tv isn’t going to make that look better. Even a prime subscription only gets you 4k.
There’s no difference between 4k broadcast on 4k tv vs. 8k broadcast on 8k tv, unless your watching it with your nose touching the tv.
Except for you knowing the numbers and being able to brag to your friends about your 8k tv
Edit: read the article before please
It’s about time the electronics industry as a whole realises that innovation for the sake of innovation is rarely a good thing
Innovation is good. That being said, slapping “AI”, “Smart” or more pixels is the opposite of innovation. Innovation is something new, out of the box. 1080p > 4k > 8k is logical progression.
Look, we can’t have TVs that last 15 years anymore!
We need to keep people buying every year or two. Otherwise line not go up! Don’t you understand that this is about protecting The Economy?!
Boomers economic policy is like if Issac Newton saw an apple falling from a tree, and came to the conclusion it would always accelerate at the same speed no matter what, even though the ground with the entire ass planet behind it is right fucking there.
Numbers can not constantly go up, it’s just that’s what was happening their whole lives and they can’t accept that their childhoods was a blip and not how things always were and always will be.
They just can’t wrap their heads around it. They have such shit tier empathy they can’t comprehend that they’re an exception.
A large number of the problems we currently face and will in the future come down to boomers being worse than their predecessors at grasping, understanding, and accepting their own impermanence and unimportance on the grand stage of reality.
Most of them need to have a series of existential crises or maybe read some fucking Satre so they can stop with the Me generation bullshit. It’s wild that the first generation to do LSD in mass is somehow the one that needs to experience ego death the most
It’s wild that the first generation to do LSD in mass
I want to say hippies were less than 1% of that generation, but for some reason I think it was recorded as 2-3% which would be a gross over-estimate.
But for every hippie you think of sticking daisies in rifles, there was 100 spitting on Black kids for going to the school they were legally required to go to.
It would be like if in 2080 they think we’re all catboys with blue hair and 37 facial piercings.
Sure, those people exist as a fringe demographic, but they’re not the norm.
Bmost hippies had more issues with peers their own age than their parents age, that part of the folk tale gets left out tho, because the people who want us to think they were hippies and “grew out of it” were the ones beating hippies for being different.
All they were ever trying to do was lie to younger generations in the hopes they’d confirm to decades old social norms. Like, it’s weird how many people still don’t understand the boomers just lie about shit instinctively. They grew up in a world filled with lead and are literally incapable of caring about logical inconsistencies. They want younger generations to think they were cool, so they just fucking lied about what they were like as a generation.
If you ever run into a real deal old hippie some day, ask them what the majority of people their age was like back then.
To be fair Boomers didn’t create this economic policy. Their parents elected Nixon, who broke the Bretton Woods agreement “temporarily”, and then we adopted Keynesian macroeconomic policy afterwards to justify it.
Inb4 someone regurgitates a defense of this “boomer” policy and proves that it’s not just them and never was. It’s always been the rich and their loyal servants.
It’s not even innovation, per say. It’s just Big Number Go Up.
Nobody seems to want to make a TV that makes watching TV more pleasant. They just want to turn these things into giant bespoke advertising billboards in your living room.
Show me the TV manufacturer who includes an onboard ad blocker. That’s some fucking innovation.
The galaxy brain move is buying an old dumb tv for a pittance and use it for watching Jellyfin/Plex/stream from a browser with uBlock Origin/DNS filtering – all running on some relative’s “obsolete” smart toaster from last year that they happily gift you because “the new version’s bagel mode IS LIT – pun intended – but it needs the 128 gb DDR7 ram of the new model, can barely toast on the old one any more”.
You can’t really find a dumb TV anymore. I might see how big of a monkey I can find when I’m ready to upgrade, but I doubt I’ll find one big enough and cheap enough.
I hooked my computer up to the HDMI and have used that as my primary interface.
It’s not perfect, but it screens out 95% of bullshit
That doesn’t, unless you’ve blocked your TV from network access, because they use ACR - Automated Content Recognition - that literally scans what is being displayed over your hdmi port and then sells it off to advertisers.
I think you missed the part where the TV doesn’t have access to the network.
And wait, no you’re thinking of a different thread. This thread mentioned no such thing.
They can connect to open WiFi spots and just ignore the fact that you didn’t connect it.
Just don’t give the TV your wifi password, boom dumb TV.
That won’t save you anymore. My boss bought a smallish smart TV in contravention of my explicit instructions for use as a CCTV monitor because it was “cheap.” It nags you on power up with a popup whining about not being able to access the internet, and if you don’t feed it your Wifi password it will subsequently display that same popup every 30 minutes or so requiring you to dismiss it again. And again. And again. Apparently the play is to just annoy you into caving and letting it access your network.
Instead I packed it up and returned it. Fuck that.
If you are at a business you should have an access point or router that is capable of blocking specific devices from WAN access. But I would create a new segmented network, block that network from WAN access entirely, put it on its own VLAN, and then connect the TV to that network.
I’d assume it nags whenever it can’t connect to the home server, and just says “network”.
So when they go out of business any remaining units will nag forever.
You can use your router or access point tools to check what address it’s trying to resolve and then set up a redirect to a device that can respond with a fake response.
FireWire got killed too soon.
Too right, brother
Wha?
AFAIK FireWire is part of the Thunderbolt protocol, you can get FireWire 800 to Thunderbolt adapters. Apple even used to sell one.
Apple killed Firewire 4 years before Lightning came along.
??? My 2012 MacBook Pro had FireWire, that’s the year Lightning came out…
Apple announced it was moving away from Firewire in 2008
My current Macbook (M2 Air from 2022) can sync with my 4th gen iPod over FireWire if I have the right adapters.
it was way too ahead of its time.
We traded 3D tv’s, which are amazing if you watch the right stuff, for 8k…
8k is great, but we need media in 8k to go with it.
There’s no 8k content, and only recently do standard connectors support 8k at high refresh rates.
There’s barely any actual 4K content you can consume.
There is a lot 4K to consume now. That was the reality 5 years ago (even 4K exists more than 10). I would say 4K is becoming slowly the new FHD, but very very slowly.
The problem is that there is a lot low quality 4K, because of bandwidth, size etc.
I feel like most streaming platforms plan lock it and still compress it to crap though.
There’s barely any actual 4K content you can consume.
Honestly a little surprised the IMAX guys didn’t start churning out 4k+ content given that they’ve been in the business forever.
But I guess “IMAX in your living room” isn’t as sexy when the screen is 60" rather than 60’
You don’t even need IMAX for 4K; ordinary 35mm film can normal scan to a nice 4K video. Films shot on the 65mm IMAX cameras would probably make good 8K content, but most of that was educational films, not what most people apparently want to watch all the time.
The digital IMAX projections were actually a step backwards in resolution.
IMAX is a mess. They can’t even figure out a consistent aspect ratio, so most of the content shot on IMAX is cropped after delivery.
Films shot on the 65mm IMAX cameras would probably make good 8K content, but most of that was educational films, not what most people apparently want to watch all the time.
Sure. But the cameras exist. You can use them for other stuff.
Hateful Eight was filmed in 70mm, and while it wasn’t Tarantino’s best work it certainly looked nice.
65mm is a gulf from 15/65 though. Much harder to shoot in IMAX format.
IMAX film is equivalent to 12K. Their digital laser projectors are only 4K.
Films shot on the 65mm IMAX cameras would probably make good 8K content
So there’s still hope that they might release The Last Buffalo in 8k 3D sometime in the future? Got it. :)
They don’t want IMAX in your living room, they want IMAX in the IMAX theater, where you pay a premium for their service.
IMAX is 4K or less content. Its edge is special projection that can look good and brighter on huge screens.
Only imax film prints are significantly better than anything else
People really need to understand a lot of what “smart” TVs do is upscale the “4k” signal to something actually resembling real 4k.
Like how some 4k torrents are 3GB, and then a 1080p of the same movie is 20gb.
It’s “worse” resolution, but it looks miles better because it’s upscaling real 1080 to 4k instead of taking existing shitty 4k and trying to make it look better without just juicing the resolution.
So we don’t need 8k.content for 8k.tvs to be an incentive. We need real 4k media, then 8ks TV would show a real improvement.
Yeah, you’re talking about bitrate. A lot of the 4k content is encoded using more efficient codecs, but if it’s sourced from the streaming services the bitrate is so abysmal it’s usually a tossup between the 1080p or 4k stream. At least the 4k usually has hdr these days which is appreciable.
Yeah most of the time I don’t give a fuck about 4k. It’s HDR I’m after.
Yeah. A 1080p Bluray clocks in around 20GB. A 4K bluray is 60-80GB.
If you’re downloading something smaller it’s probably lower quality
There’s barely any actual 4K content you can consume
I feel like that’s not true. But you’ve gotta try. If you’re streaming it, chances are it’s not really any better. 4K Bluray (or rips of them…) though? Yeah it’s good. And since film actually has 8K+ resolution old movies can be rescanned into high resolution if the original film exists.
Supposedly Sony Pictures Core is one streaming service that can push nearly 4K Bluray bitrates… but you’ve gotta have really good internet. Like pulling 50-80GB in the span of a movie runtime.
You’re probably aware of this since you mentioned bitrate, but a lot of 4K streaming services use bitrates that are too low to capture much more detail at 4K compared to a lower resolution. A lot of games will recommend/effectively require upscaling (DLSS/FSR/XeSS) to achieve good performance at 4K. All of this is still maybe better than 1440p, but it shows 4K is still kind of hard to make full use of.
I wish they didn’t feel the need to fake it with upscaling. In my experience upscaling looks like shit every time, whether it’s a video or game. Most of the time a good 1080p video with good bit rate will look way better than a 4k upscale.
For video, bitrate is definitely king. 4K high bitrate just gets insanely large. I opt for 1080p bluray quality when available over 4K usually. I looked into AI upscaling for video recently and it can be pretty good, but it’s a technology that changes fast so I’d rather store the original resolution and upscale in real time later (if at all).
For games, I find even FSR2 upscaling from 1440p to 2160p is excellent as long as it’s implemented properly (i.e. scaling the 3D world and not the UI), and FSR3/4 even better.
Witcher 3 is the bane of my existence at 4K. Even with DLSS it runs like ass on my 5070 ti.
Not true on paper but true in practice. Most people don’t buy/use Blurays (or any other physical media) anymore to the point that retailers aren’t even bothering to stock them on the shelves these days. Their days are certainly numbered and then all we’ll be left with is low quality 4k streaming.
I’ve got a nice 4k mini LED tv with a 4k Blu-ray player and there’s plenty of excellent 4k content but it’s a niche market because most people aren’t using physical media for movies. 4k streaming is garbage compared to UHD Blu-ray.
Preach. I got gifted a 4k bluray player and was absolutely blown away by how good it looks compared to streaming.
Which makes sense because even 1080p streaming is garbage compared to blu-ray.
There’s barely any actual 4K content you can consume.
Ironically there actually is if you bother pirating content because that’s the only crowd that will share full 4k Dolby Vision + Dolby Atmos/DTS-X BluRay rips.
Aside from that though, even 4k gaming is a struggle because GPU vendors went into the deep end of frame generation, which also coincidentally is the same mistake lots of TV OEMs already made.
