• Ricky Rigatoni@lemm.ee
    24·
    1 天前

    Windows: Has a complex and graceful shutdown process to make sure programs never close if there’s a problem with them and your computer just stalls on shutdown until you hold down the power button and completely void out the purpose of the graceful shutdown.

      • letsgo@lemm.eeEnglish
        1·
        9 小时前

        Ever? Too many times. When I think I’ve told Windows Update “yes, do all the shit, yes it’s fine, yes I’m sure, yes you can do it, yes I really want you to do it, yes I’m sure I really want you to, yes I’m sure I’m sure, yes for the umpteenth fucking time” and switched off my monitor to go home for the weekend, the number of times I’ve come in on a Monday morning just to find I have to click “yes” yet again then have to sit there watching it grind out its updates.

        I just wish they’d add a checkbox, off by default, that says “yes you can do it all, just stop asking stupid fucking questions” that I can click and go home. But for some reason Microwank insist I have to sit there watching that fucking update percentage creep up then endlessly sit at “100% all is done, please wait” for no reason whatsoever.

        Oh yeah and there always seem to be way more reboots needed when BitLocker is active. I’m sure 1 reboot is the norm with occasional 2’s. But with BL it’s usually 5-6 reboots.

        I used to work at a place where MS would raise tickets with us and I always wanted to give them the WU treatment. But professionalism always got in the way of “This ticket is 100% complete, you must close and reopen it to continue”.

    • oo1@lemmings.worldEnglish
      10·
      1 天前

      Windows: I refuse to shut down because of a, b , c

      Me: But I already clos. . .

      Windows: No you didnt’t, stop lying!

      Me : Well, I pressed the X and the window dissappeared.

      Windows: Lol, noob. Did you never even heard of a task managers?

    • Agent641@lemmy.world
      201·
      2 天前

      “Mmm, that didn’t work, try again later I guess? Just stop bothering me with your petty needs and get back to generating monetizable data that I can harvest.”

    • Magnus@lemmy.ca
      1212·
      2 天前

      Came here to say this. Windows goes full retard on everything it does. Graceful smh

      • MarauderIIC@dormi.zone
        4·
        15 小时前

        “this application is preventing you from shutting down. Go back and save your work: shut down, cancel”

        Clicks cancel

        Windows: shutting down!

  • Realitätsverlust@lemmy.zipEnglish
    812·
    2 天前

    Linux does give every application time to shut down correctly, but unlike windows, it won’t wait for ages until every process is down. Linux WILL shut down in a certain timeframe, whereas windows waits for years if necessary. In my old job, we all had to use windows and I had times where I clicked shut down, turned off my monitor, grabbed my stuff, left and in the next morning, the PC was still on because Notepad refused to just close lmao.

    • WIZARD POPE💫@lemmy.world
      28·
      2 天前

      That is what infuriates me so much. Instead of just killing the process after 5 mins of waiting it just cancels the shutdown. Like fuck off with that shit.

            • dai@lemmy.world
              3·
              1 天前

              Man I hope next time I press windows and type an application by name, or by executable.exe I get a spinning icon then a stack of unrelated web results that are probably malware.

          • InputZero@lemmy.world
            7·
            1 天前

            Then you might not want windows cause Windows forces updates on you whether you want them or not and break things. Linux will happily wait for you to forget for so long it breaks because the target API doesn’t accept your old ass code anymore. At least in Linux as long as I don’t forget I’m good. I sometimes forget

            • fuck_u_spez_in_particular@lemmy.world
              21·
              1 天前

              TBF there are ways to completely disable updates in Windows (I just did in my VM because it should literally only run 3 programs which are not working with wine)

  • Raltoid@lemmy.world
    2847·
    2 天前

    1. Linux normally does a nice shutdown as well, unless you force it.

    2. You can force it on windows if you really want.

    I’m so tired of linux memes posted/made by people who don’t know much about windows or linux.

    • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
      2·
      1 天前

      Yeah this is more of a situation where because more applications are built for windows you’re more likely to encounter poor quality application level software on windows than on Linux. Especially if you stay within the walled garden that most distros provide.

      People see a pattern with having a lot more problems with applications on windows than they do on linux and wrongly assume it’s because of the OS.

      It’s really silly since there’s plenty of real bullshit going on with windows people could meme about. There’s no need to make up shit about windows being bad at something it actually does ok with.

    • JcbAzPx@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1·
      1 天前

      Windows also has to worry about getting sued by another multinational conglomerate when some idiot loses the only copy if a super critical file because they were too lazy to save and forced their laptop to shutdown so they could pickup lunch.

        • criticon@lemmy.ca
          18·
          2 天前

          Some clarification of the command

          -r #restart

          -s #shutdown

          -t 00 #wait 0 seconds

          -f #forced

            • Laurel Raven@lemmy.zipEnglish
              6·
              2 天前

              I can’t speak for them if they’re joking or not but it’s something you can absolutely do. *.bat files (short for “batch”, as in a batch of commands to execute in sequence) are the script files for the Windows command line, and can be executed by double clicking on them

              • jmacapp@lemm.ee
                12·
                2 天前

                Thanks, I’m familiar with batch files. This just seems like a very bad way to perform a shutdown, especially when running a UI Desktop windowing system. And even if that shutdown command is fully supported from the GUI, I would guess you need to be admin to run it, which means you can run the bat file as admin, so if you can edit the file or modify the env in which it runs (e.g. PATH) it seems like it could be a security problem. And if you don’t need to be root to run the shutdown command, that seems like its own problem. I suppose Windows still has the “run as administrator” from the context menu so maybe that helps.

                • Sonicdemon86@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  4·
                  2 天前

                  As it is a simple command you don’t need to be an admin or run as administrator. Listen kids don’t run batch files if you don’t know where they came from or who made them.

                • Laurel Raven@lemmy.zipEnglish
                  2·
                  2 天前

                  You did say “I don’t use Windows” which sounded like you were saying you didn’t know if what they were saying was technically plausible or reasonable, and without knowing what you do or don’t know about Windows or DOS, figured I’d respond with the presumption that it’s possible you’re only really familiar with *NIX systems (which is not a judgement).

                  I find it kludgey and unnecessary to shut down that way, but it’s not exactly a bad idea, and it does not require admin rights.

                  And there’s no reason it wouldn’t be supported: when you run the file, it opens it in a terminal window, it’s exactly like if you manually opened it and typed it from a technical point of view.

                  And if someone malicious has the ability to edit a file on your desktop, they could do a lot more dangerous things, pretty much anything you could put in the batch file, more or less directly.

                  Really, the only issue here is that you’d always be force closing your programs when you shut down which increases the odds that eventually they might corrupt one of their files… Not a huge risk, but non-zero.

        • kewko@sh.itjust.works
          66·
          2 天前

          If -t is specified -f is assumed and redundant, but also it will try to do graceful l, but with a patience of a cranky toddler

          • aeiou_ckr@lemmy.world
            18·
            2 天前

            Not really. If -f (force) is removed windows will shutdown similar to pressing the shutdown button and will wait for your input regarding open programs. -f is needed to just just “do it” with no hesitation or response from the user.

            • kewko@sh.itjust.works
              44·
              2 天前

              Straight from the doc

              /t <xxx> Sets the time-out period before shutdown to xxx seconds. The valid range is 0-315360000 (10 years), with a default of 30. If the timeout period is greater than 0, the /f parameter is implied.

      • endeavor@sopuli.xyzEnglish
        4·
        2 天前

        Theres a button on the back of the psu that comes in handy a LOT with windows. Useless on linux unless you want to use that button for its intended purpose.

      • MadMadBunny@lemmy.ca
        4·
        2 天前

        Back in the day if I wanted to quit Windows the fastest way, I’d rename the c:/windows folder…

        Back to the DOS prompt faster than you could blink

      • Dave@lemmy.nz
        152·
        2 天前

        The process manager lets you kill any process.

        You can also click the do it anyway button when it’s waiting on shutdown, but I’ve had less consistent success with that.

      • madame_gaymes@programming.devEnglish
        32·
        2 天前

        There’s also a hardware way, works on practically any device. Phone, tablet, laptop, desktop, etc. Doesn’t matter what the OS is.

        Press and hold power button for anywhere between 5 - 15 seconds. The second half of this meme describes this method the best, methinks.

    • cmgvd3lw@discuss.tchncs.de
      282·
      2 天前

      Absolutely, if people agree or not, the core windows is still a pretty powerful operating system. Its sad that they are ruining it by adding crap into it.

    • Shanmugha@lemmy.world
      164·
      2 天前

      Oh, p-lease, can force it my ass, Linux has never failed to shutdown on me when using plain obvious GUI method. windows - can easily hang on forever as long as computer stays powered. The point of all the memes is exactly insane windows defaults, not the things that can or can’t be done by someone with enough knowledge

    • derpgon@programming.dev
      3·
      2 天前

      1. Linux programs either HAVE to be quick while receiving shutdown signal, otherwise the state will be fucked, work will be lost, and people will be mad, and program will stop being used.

      2. Clicking the Windows button to force shutdown will straight up kill the program and won’t care at all.

    • Apytele@sh.itjust.works
      7·
      2 天前

      It was simpler using Linux to just kill things unceremoniously, but my coworkers are also consistently amazed when Epic throws a temper tantrum (rare, but it happens) and I walk over and ctrl-alt-delete and tell it to sit down and shut the fuck up until it’s ready to reboot and act right.

  • chronicledmonocle@lemmy.world
    122·
    2 天前

    Linux gives processes a chance to gracefully close. However, it also will absolutely NOT allow a process to hang up the shutdown or restart procedure after a point. If you’re using systemd (which there is a good chance you are), it’ll count down. If the process hasn’t stopped in the time allotted, it gets Old Yellered.

  • dave@lemmy.wtf
    7·
    1 天前

    one of my favourite things when i switched to linux first was using the meta+Q hotkey to shutdown a program (this was with PopOS i think). with windows there is alt+F4 but some programs only use shift+alt+F4 which makes it a lot more confusing. on top of all that if youre using a laptop then its another keypress for the Fn key in some cases

  • astrsk@fedia.io
    64·
    2 天前

    If your app doesn’t respond to SIGTERM gracefully, you need to fix your app. The system did its job as documented.

  • hector@sh.itjust.works
    18·
    2 天前

    Linux is actually great if you need to implement graceful shutdown with signals – I love it all around :)))

      • Russ@bitforged.spaceEnglish
        1·
        15 小时前

        If you hit Ctrl Alt Delete very quickly in succession (I believe it’s 7 times in a row) it will bail out from a stop job and proceed with shutting down

        Learned that trick because I was so tired of seeing that occur ha. Along that research I swear I recall seeing that it’s a KDE/SDDM issue but I might be getting some wires crossed on that (and thus, don’t quote me/take my word on that 😅)

      • Azzu@lemm.ee
        121·
        2 天前

        systemd moment in the sense that someone not affiliated with systemd used systemd to write a stop job that doesn’t terminate quickly? Or that you willingly installed software that brought along a slow stop job with it?

        This is like so far away from systemd’s fault, idk, it must just be a meme right?

        • juipeltje@lemmy.world
          5·
          2 天前

          Pretty sure i’ve had this happen with services i didn’t even create, but yeah it was just a joke, i don’t care about init systems, but i don’t recall this ever happening when i was using runit.

          • Azzu@lemm.ee
            41·
            2 天前

            I don’t know runit. Maybe runit didn’t even have a way to delay or customize shutdown, maybe it always just waits 5 seconds and then forcibly terminates a process, resulting in you never noticing when a cleanup job was too slow. Maybe you just randomly never installed a particular program with a slow shutdown job while using runit. There’s a bunch of reasonable explanations and possibilities for why this difference exists, and they can all mean systemd is perfectly reasonable.

            • juipeltje@lemmy.world
              31·
              2 天前

              Alright man, fact remains i was just making a silly joke, you don’t have to be poettering’s pr team lol

              • Azzu@lemm.ee
                22·
                2 天前

                You’re the one who brought up runit and insinuated it doesn’t have this problem ¯_(ツ)_/¯

      • swab148@lemm.eeEnglish
        19·
        2 天前

        He wrote Pulseaudio, Avahi, and systemd before joining Microsoft, where he currently works.

            • acockworkorange@mander.xyz
              10·
              2 天前

              Great talk indeed. And I will quickly acknowledge that something had to be done, and that systemd had the courage to innovate and address the issues. I just wish it did so in a more transparent way to the end user.

              For instance: there’s a whole established system of dealing with logs in place. Why build a separate one just for your init system? Why binary? Why even integrate it with your init? I’m not saying storing everything on /var/log and using logrotate is ideal or even covers all use cases. But a log management system is its own thing.

              That’s just an example of how systemd didn’t jive with every other subsystem in a Unix like OS. It could have been done in a Unix way - small cohesive tools that are good at one job and can be combined to do more together.

              That’s where I think he missed the mark when dismissing the monolithic criticism by saying “it’s not a single binary so it’s not monolithic”. Its philosophy is monolithic.

              That said, I use systemd on my machines because that’s what my do uses and I don’t think it’s a reason to swap distros. For the same reason I use Linux and not a micro kernel. I.e. philosophy is important, but implementation is importanter.

              • BCsven@lemmy.ca
                5·
                2 天前

                While monolithic may not be the keep is simple rule aimed for in originally in Unix/Linux, I wonder if it even matters…is there something really gained by init systems that make a difference for the average Linux user?

          • silasmariner@programming.dev
            5·
            2 天前

            One task lifecycle management tool to bring them all, one tool to find them. One tool to rule them all and in the darkness bind them.

      • WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        3·
        2 天前

        to be honest if that happens its better to understand why that happens, instead of just pulling the plug. maybe a larger program (like firefox) is still exiting and in the middle of saving the session and closing databases. if you pull the plug, it’ll corrupt its data, it’ll forget your opened tabs and whatnot and you’ll be angry

    • DannyBoy@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      9·
      2 天前

      Not only do I get this on shutdown I get a job on startup that runs for a minute thirty that looks for a swap partition that I have deleted.

      • alt_xa_23@lemmy.world
        5·
        2 天前

        I’ve had that problem before, I think I had to mess around with my fstab and grub config to fix it.

      • BCsven@lemmy.ca
        3·
        2 天前

        As comments below you will need to check /etc/fstab and then run a mkgrub or mkgrub2 command with options like -o (you will have lookup the full string) and it will rewrite the info that the system is told at boot about drive partitions

    • Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works
      12·
      2 天前

      I’ve tried to turn a pc off to go to sleep, only to realize in the morning it’s still on because some program refused to close.

      Now when I see the prompt to force close, I just say yes.