• Digit@lemmy.wtfEnglish
        7·
        12 days ago

        There are a few gaps. Seems it’s not being as diligently updated as once was.

        There are even some old distros I failed to find on it.

        … Didn’t there used to be a text-searchable svg version of it?

        • tyler@programming.dev
          2·
          11 days ago

          Idk. I was making a joke though. A history of Linux chart is functionally useless for actually choosing a distro.

          • Digit@lemmy.wtfEnglish
            2·
            11 days ago

            A history of Linux chart is functionally useless for actually choosing a distro.

            I’ve used that many times to help me go distro surfing. Very handy for discovery.

            • tyler@programming.dev
              1·
              11 days ago

              For a new person it’s useless. For anyone distro surfing why wouldn’t you just use distro Watch?

              • Digit@lemmy.wtfEnglish
                1·
                11 days ago

                For a new person it’s useless. For anyone distro surfing why wouldn’t you just use distro Watch?

                I disagree. Not useless. Shows the lineage of distros. Facilitates broader awareness. Handy education. Very well accompanies the likes of distrowatch, at a long glance showing the forest past being lost in the trees and slowly trying to work it out. Expedites the new (or soon to be) user to better know their way around, and perhaps help them go towards whichever branch they prefer or away from any they garner a dislike for, saving time. See past the whataboutism false-dichotomy? Why not both?

                • tyler@programming.dev
                  1·
                  10 days ago

                  Huh? A new user is going to have trouble understanding the base difference between gnome and kde. Flooding them with information about the history of all these operating systems will do nothing except to scare them off even more.

      • tal@lemmy.todayEnglish
        1·
        12 days ago

        If you know how to edit a comma-separated-value text file and how to submit a PR on GitHub, you could make the image larger.

        • tyler@programming.dev
          1·
          11 days ago

          I just have to assume you’re a troll at this point. That graphic is not helpful at all to anyone except those that care about the history of Linux. For everyone else it’s useless. I was making a joke about how one of the distros I use isn’t on there. I don’t know the history of my distro and honestly do not care. Any noob also would not care.

      • [object Object]@lemmy.world
        11·
        11 days ago

        WebOS was made by Palm Inc., one of the earliest and quite successful manufacturer of ‘personal digital assistant’ devices, aka smartphones without the phone part (and later with that too). They originally developed and licensed their own OS, PalmOS, but needed an upgrade for multitasking and such. webOS was thus intended for those PDA devices, and Debian would of course be a ridiculous choice for the task.

        I have warm memories of PalmOS: i was snappy as heck with the 16 MHz CPU, but that’s largely because of the ‘single-tasking’ and quite limited app functionality.

  • FauxLiving@lemmy.world
    1211·
    12 days ago

    All you need to know is that, whatever you pick, you made the wrong choice and you will be roasted if you ever attempt to explain your decision.

    Unless you use Arch, then you have chosen correctly.

    • NostraDavid@programming.dev
      19·
      12 days ago

      You’re obviously not using NixOS. I clearly don’t even need to try to use such a subpar stateful system such as Arch, you absolute pleb.

      Am I out-jerking you already?

      I use NixOS, obviously.

    • MuckyWaffles@leminal.space
      911·
      11 days ago

      Arch is utterly inferior because of its use of the Systemd “init” system, which is a bloated mess that completely disregards the Unix philosophy of doing one thing and doing it well, and shouldn’t be forgotten for its sins and heresy. “Arch Linux” (Really Arch Gnu/Linux, or more preferably Arch Gnu+Linux (Unless you consider that Gnu runs on top of Linux, in which case it’s Linux+Gnu)) cannot be taken seriously as a minimal do it yourself distro when it hinges on an software that has ties with RedHat, which has had a history of forcing their woke Wayland Display Server (Even though Xorg worked just fine, suspicious much?), as well as their DEI onto the entire Linux space - where politics shouldn’t play any role. A WOKE company like RedHat has no place in the open source community. If you want to be a true and righteous Linux user, I recommend Either Void Linux+Gnu (What manly men like myself use) or Gentoo.

      Edit: this is satire, I clearly interact with these people far too often to have done this good of a job.

      • 5C5C5C@programming.dev
        19·
        12 days ago

        It says something about how sad of a state the world is in when I can’t tell if this is satire or not.

        • burntbacon@discuss.tchncs.de
          3·
          12 days ago

          I mean, it’s both good and bad. The amount of downvotes mean there is a large subset of folks who no longer recognize the twisting of stallman’s rant. They are new to linux, and not super-serious-no-casuals-allowed penguin lovers. It’s bad because I would love if everyone coming to linux could be as into it as I am. People who are invested into a thing take a much deeper look at things, and can appreciate it’s soft and jagged parts and then properly make recommendations on how to change things.

          • Digit@lemmy.wtfEnglish
            2·
            11 days ago

            There has been I have noticed a marked increase in argumentum populum, argumentum ad lapidem and argumentum ad novitatem, with the influx of new users (in recent years), who seem to be coming to “Linux” like it’s another platform; another groupthink team to switch to [“PC vs Mac”], rather than Linux just being a kernel that has a license that qualifies it as having a Free Software philosophy, and the free software (free as in freedom) being the reason to use it.

            Like they’re still caught in, not just the fallacies and identity-attachment mass-formation malady, but also a consumerism and a dependence paradigm, rather than embracing the freedom to learn, to empower themselves and each other.

            It’s daunting to think, many may not know they can look deeper into it, not merely just use the software, but also study it, and change it, and share their changes… like they don’t know how we got here.

            Freedom forgotten is freedom lost.

          • MuckyWaffles@leminal.space
            1·
            11 days ago

            Lmao, I just made this account, yeah. It’s not my first Lemmy account. I made an account on lemmy.world back in 2023 I think (lost the account), and a PieFed account earlier this year, which I hardly used. I thought I could use a fresh start. (And sorry for the ambiguous satire)

            • DreamButt@lemmy.worldEnglish
              2·
              10 days ago

              I don’t think that’s on you. Like the person above said it’s more to do with how the world is rn

      • FauxLiving@lemmy.world
        2·
        9 days ago

        Edit: this is satire, I clearly interact with these people far too often to have done this good of a job.

        Imagine if The Onion had to say this.

        Your target audience understood, the people downvoting probably are Ubuntu users anway.

      • Digit@lemmy.wtfEnglish
        31·
        12 days ago

        Arch is utterly inferior because of its use of the Systemd “init” system, which is a bloated mess that completely disregards the Unix philosophy of doing one thing and doing it well, and shouldn’t be forgotten for its sins and heresy.

        So… do arch without systemd. (And not listed there, because its live-installer iso comes with systemd, is parabola linux, which does let you install with any of many init systems).

        Or as you say, any of many other distros that offer init-freedom.

        Though I’m not entirely sure if I’m replying to an instance of poe’s law, intended to mock those of us who see things largely like you depicted. n_n Which is fun.

        PS,

        history of forcing their woke Wayland Display Server (Even though Xorg worked just fine, suspicious much?),

        Yes. Actively inhibiting development of Xorg. The tighter they squeeze the more of us slip through their fingers. Now there’s XLibre (a Xorg fork, to continue (otherwise actively inhibited) patching and developing), and even Pheonix (a from-scratch implementation of the X11 protocol written in zig! ~ give it a couple years). Exciting times.

        Frankly I’m not even keen on the idea of pulse audio either. Funny how all this “Lennartware”'s so contemptable… from Lennart Poettering, who then went to work for Microsoft. Funny eh? Funny how it’s almost like it’s following the same ruthless dastardly insidious method of unscrupulously building a monopoly, via “embrace, extend, extinguish”. Not a fan of pulseaudio, systemd, and wayland. Much prefer free software stays closer to being in human reach, so more of us can make use of the 4 freedoms of free software. So it’s not just “free software” in name only, but in practice too.

        • MuckyWaffles@leminal.space
          2·
          11 days ago

          Sorry, my comment was satire, though I do daily drive Void Linux (and very much enjoy runit, and I’m looking to try openrc). Also I’m not really anti wayland, but I do dislike the squeezing of xorg development, as you mentioned. I’m pretty excited for the Phoenix project, as I’m a big fan of Zig myself, and I’m thinking of contributing. XLibre, I worry may be a lost cause with how many bridges I feel it’s maintainer has burned with so many people, but he’s also very committed so we’ll see.

  • Snapz@lemmy.world
    8510·
    11 days ago

    OP is posting AI slop and plagiarizing other people’s work. Lead image seems a cyanide and happiness cartoon, but it’s a blatent ripoff, and they watermarked it with their own username to boot. And no communication out transparency around any of that as well

    • underscores@lemmy.zipEnglish
      111·
      11 days ago

      “not again” as a punchline is the level of creativity I’d expect from a slopper

    • EzTerry@lemmy.zipEnglish
      137·
      11 days ago

      I think there needs to be proof given when you accuse people of ai slop, this is not to say it’s not a slop mime of course it is: it’s I think people tend to forget why AI slop is not so great: the average person it trained on is not that great.

      Now sure if you find a Loading artist with the frames the same we know what it was lifted from vs it just being a mimic of style, sure AI or not we could say it’s a bit too close in style to be a independent derivative.

      But let’s be real you were not going to ever be paid for some off the top random meme the question is should op have bothered posting… Honestly likely not.

      • Snapz@lemmy.world
        61·
        11 days ago

        Maybe your intention with this comment was more noble, but it’s full of typos/autocorrect and odd tense (I wasnt going to be paid?) that make it very difficult to follow?

        But from what I can read, your position is that the burden of proof for fraud is on the audience and not the person creating the deceptive work? I don’t agree. And if I start a business, I need to hold trademark for my logo and patents for my novel designs and utilities - SO THAT I DEFEND MYSELF WHEN CHALLENGED.

        Why isn’t your assertion that OP should need to provide proof that their work is original OR openly label it as AI (theft). Again, in this case OP is working to pass this off as original work (as you can see by them literally taking extra time to watermark their counterfeit work).

    • tal@lemmy.todayEnglish
      37·
      11 days ago

      Lead image seems a cyanide and happiness cartoon,

      It doesn’t claim to be a Cyanide and Happiness cartoon anywhere in the cartoon.

    • apftwb@lemmy.world
      191·
      11 days ago

      Fuck this is getting hard.

      • Red shirt guy’s eyebrow is a bit weird

      • Ports on the laptop change every frame.

      • Scrollbars are a bit weird

      • Text in computer window doesn’t line up with grey windows in the vertical direction.

    • Naho_Zako@piefed.zipEnglish
      92·
      11 days ago

      Straight up stealing from the Cyanide and Happiness with the artstyle too. Sigh…

  • Jo Miran@lemmy.ml
    423·
    12 days ago

    There are four main flavors

    • Debian - For every day
    • Red Hat - For work
    • Arch - To tinker and learn
    • OpenSuSe - To German
      • Digit@lemmy.wtfEnglish
        3·
        12 days ago

        habe noch keine German influence gesehen

        haven’t seen any German influence yet.

        Got it.

      • Jo Miran@lemmy.ml
        24·
        12 days ago

        The popular Debian based distros are up to date. That said, core Debian stable is indeed boring, but sometimes boring and stable is what you need.

        • ZombieCyborgFromOuterSpace@piefed.caEnglish
          6·
          12 days ago

          I use Kubuntu LTS for that exact reason. Even though I am an experienced Linux user for over 20 years, I don’t have time to fuck around fixing my PC when something goes wrong. It’s stable and it works. And, yes I game on my PC and it’s doing just fine with my 3070 RTX NVidia card with the drivers provided by Ubuntu through their 3rd party driver system. No hassle, no crashing, just me using my computer doing the things I need to do.

        • parzival@lemmy.org
          32·
          12 days ago

          Its not even stable though😭 I spent 6 hours fixing my networking on my debian 13 stable server, after it randomly got 90 percent packet loss with no explanation

      • Baggie@lemmy.zip
        10·
        12 days ago

        Definitely a brick of an operating system, boring as hell, but reliable and has been that way since ancient times.

    • craftrabbit@lemmy.zip
      16·
      12 days ago

      Also the additional flavours of

      • Nix – whole OS determined by 1 file
      • Gentoo – Arch but it takes longer
      • Alpine – small and simple
      • Slackware? – for old people
      • Void?? – like Alpine but not small and simple
      • LFS??? – like Gentoo but takes longer
      • AOSP??? – not even really Linux anymore
      • ragas@lemmy.ml
        51·
        12 days ago

        Gentoo really has nothing to do with arch. Gentoo in my opinion is more like Debian with compiling and rolling release.

        And what about Fedora? Last I checked it was wildly popular.

        • craftrabbit@lemmy.zip
          6·
          12 days ago

          Gentoo is just frequently cited as the “next step up” from Arch and also funny.

          And Fedora is bucketed into the Red Hat flavour.

      • 0x0@lemmy.zip
        4·
        12 days ago

        Gentoo – Arch but it takes longer

        Supports full binary versions since december 2023.

        Slackware? – for old people

        Aka people who know what they’re doing and what they want, noted.

          • _stranger_@lemmy.world
            1·
            10 days ago

            Adding a binary package host allows Portage to install cryptographically signed, compiled packages. In many cases, adding a binary package host will greatly decrease the mean time to package installation and adds much benefit when running Gentoo on older, slower, or low power systems.

        • Digit@lemmy.wtfEnglish
          1·
          12 days ago

          the most BSD Linux

          Try CRUX.

          (Or KISS/Carbs, Side, Parch, Aeryn, Shebang, … and there are other new ones I’ve forgot the name of, that have either BSD userland or BSD style ports packaging systems).

          I don’t know which is “the most BSD Linux”, but I suspect “BSD people” may not be the most familiar with the distroverse, having their own things to tend to.

          • tal@lemmy.todayEnglish
            1·
            11 days ago

            …having their own things to tend to.

            “NetBSD!” “No, OpenBSD!” “No, FreeBSD!”

      • NostraDavid@programming.dev
        2·
        12 days ago

        Nix – whole OS determined by 1 file

        * Can be determined by 1 file. Or one file and a .lock file. Or even more files. Your pick, really.

  • squaresinger@lemmy.world
    35·
    12 days ago

    Choice is good when you can make an informed choice. Choice is bad if you are forced to make a decisions where you have no idea of the consequences.

  • supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz
    383·
    11 days ago

    Edit it is so perfectly fitting for the Linux community to respond with mostly criticisms and negations to these flowcharts I shared without a single negative commenter actually suggesting a different similar helpful resource for newbies to Linux who feel overwhelmed or adding something productive and helpful to the conversation.

    Do better y’all.

    You can’t condescend these resources and pretend with a handwave like there are better ones out there, you gotta prove it. If you are going to pick apart these charts then you gotta make a new chart or link me to a better one, I don’t care about your condescending minor criticisms of the specifics of the flowcharts, that is irrelevant input unless you are going to edit a flowchart and make a new one or add something else productive.

    I feel like I am inside a meme making fun of Linux users right now lol.

    https://piefed.blahaj.zone/post/347408

    https://lemmy.ca/post/53099450

    • krashmo@lemmy.world
      66·
      12 days ago

      I appreciate the effort put into this but if answering yes to “are you new to Linux?” leads to the follow up question “apt or rpm?” then there’s a problem.

      • tal@lemmy.todayEnglish
        618·
        12 days ago

        Exactly. One is a package format and/or local package utility, and the other is a frontend to do downloads and updates for that local package utility.

        Should be “rpm or dpkg” — assuming that we’re excluding the other options — and then if someone chooses RPM, you can start talking about the frontend:

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPM_Package_Manager

        Front ends

        Several front-ends to RPM ease the process of obtaining and installing RPMs from repositories and help in resolving their dependencies. These include:

        • yum used in Fedora Linux, CentOS 5 and above, Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 and above, Scientific Linux, Yellow Dog Linux and Oracle Linux
        • DNF, introduced in Fedora Linux 18 (default since 22), Red Hat Enterprise Linux 8, AlmaLinux 8, and CentOS Linux 8.
        • up2date used in Red Hat Enterprise Linux, CentOS 3 and 4, and Oracle Linux
        • Zypper used in Mer (and thus Sailfish OS), MeeGo,[16] openSUSE and SUSE Linux Enterprise
        • urpmi used in Mandriva Linux, ROSA Linux and Mageia
        • apt-rpm, a port of Debian’s Advanced Packaging Tool (APT) used in Ark Linux,[17] PCLinuxOS and ALT Linux
        • Smart Package Manager, used in Unity Linux, available for many distributions including Fedora Linux.
        • rpmquery, a command-line utility available in (for example) Red Hat Enterprise Linux
        • libzypp, for Sailfish OS

        Then for dpkg, you can choose from among aptitude, apt, apt-get/apt-query/etc, graphical frontend options like synaptic that one may want to use in parallel with the TUI-based frontends, etc.

        • krashmo@lemmy.world
          50·
          12 days ago

          Sure, but my point was that someone new to Linux can only answer that question with “what the fuck are those”

        • tyler@programming.dev
          20·
          12 days ago

          You’ve completely missed the point. If you’re new to Linux you have no clue what those are and shouldn’t care.

      • sik0fewl@piefed.caEnglish
        1·
        12 days ago

        Been there, done that. Eventually got fed up with having to wait 30 minutes to several hours to install (build) something just to try it out, not like it and then delete it.

      • Digit@lemmy.wtfEnglish
        5·
        12 days ago

        gentoo for small computing power?? no offense, but that’s bonkers 😹

        Why?

        Surely if you’ve low computing power, you want to make the best of it… Gentoo can help with that.

        Tight compile flags, choosing USE flags carefully to be minimal and snug to meet needs, can make a very very lean efficient-running crisp-feeling system for when you’re using it.

        Or, if your concern is more about the package install time, just use the official binhost [the -g option on emerge commands is your friend], and minimise USE flag changes, and then it’s as fast as any other distro with precompiled binary packages.

        • 0x0@lemmy.zip
          11·
          11 days ago

          With the caveat that you’d better cross-compile for the target (low resources) environment unless you’re cold and it’s a long weekend.

    • ZoteTheMighty@lemmy.zip
      101·
      12 days ago

      Lots of pro-Ubuntu propaganda in those flow charts. At this point, Ubuntu of any flavor shouldn’t be recommended to anyone. There are always better alternatives.

      • felbane@lemmy.world
        2·
        12 days ago

        I was going to say something similar. Ubuntu as a server in 202x is… well it’s certainly a choice you could make…

    • Digit@lemmy.wtfEnglish
      21·
      12 days ago

      LOL.

      That’s so broken and biased.

      NixOS btw.

      No kidding.

  • rarsamx@lemmy.ca
    311·
    12 days ago

    Worst when the newcomers chose Arch because they’ve heard is very configurable.

    Then complain that Linux is hard.

    • Mr.Chewy@lemmy.world
      6·
      12 days ago

      I kinda have the reverse problem.

      I started with arch and when I was making a beginner friendly linux laptop for my parents, I chose Mint and later switched to Zorin, and wanted to make everything as windows like as possible.

      My problem that I felt like wrestling and constantly having to look what is in my system etc etc. Felt really frustrating and like I knew way less than I thought.

      So IMO, distro hoppers are way more knowledgeable than many Arch users, merely from knowing how to wrestle with the system, where in contrast, all I do is install what I want and when I want to do something, I already know exactly and precisely what to look into.

  • BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world
    344·
    12 days ago

    There are many correct distro choices (except Ubuntu), but the only correct desktop environment is KDE Plasma.

    If Cosmic keeps evolving, it could win me over.

    • cRazi_man@europe.pub
      24·
      12 days ago

      People go about it backwards when recommending/choosing. Beginners should be encouraged pick the desktop environment first (my KDE preference excluded the universal recommendation of Mint). Then the next decision should be stability vs fast updates (potential instability); and then ease of finding support for the inevitable problems they run into (beginners might find it easiest to find support for Debian based distros). Then you’ll have a handful of options left and it really makes no difference which of those are picked.

      That being said, I had constant problems when I was starting and the distro with which I managed to get there best start was OpenSUSE Tumbleweed. Yet my most downvoted comment ever on Lemmy is suggesting Tumbleweed to beginners.

      • melfie@lemy.lol
        2·
        12 days ago

        I think starting with the DE is solid advice. I remember using Ubuntu with Unity many, many moons ago and being put off by the DE, which ultimately delayed my move to desktop Linux. Then I tried Kubuntu and was like, ah, I didn’t know it could be this good. Finally, I tried Mint with Cinnamon and was hooked.

  • Tenderizer@aussie.zoneEnglish
    28·
    11 days ago

    You think choosing your Linux distro is bad, imagine having to choose your electricity, water, internet, phone, banking, and insurance provider as well as your local councillor, workplace, school, career, entertainment, childcare, car, house, food, etc.

    This “love choice, hate choosing” is a really valuable thing to understand.

    • fne8w2ah@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1·
      10 days ago

      That’s why much more effort should be used to promote, towards the regular masses, Linux distros such as Linux Mint and Zorin that are built to purposely accommodate Windows(and Mac)-refugees into guiding them into the wider Linux ecosystem.

      • Tenderizer@aussie.zoneEnglish
        2·
        10 days ago

        Problem is that Mint and Zorin don’t take security as seriously as they should, and so I’m worried about the risks that would pose.

        Plus Zorin is a bit problematic for other reasons.

          • Tenderizer@aussie.zoneEnglish
            1·
            9 days ago

            They charge money for a free OS, but they don’t use that money to provide more than installation support. They don’t offer troubleshooting support or upstream improvements.

  • Renat@szmer.info
    261·
    12 days ago

    I use Linux Mint. It’s very good for beginners. I don’t recommend Ubuntu.

  • texture@lemmy.world
    251·
    12 days ago

    see heres the problem, youre doing that in the wrong order.

    first figure out your DE/WM preference, THEN choose a package manager with the repos that will best support that for your use case and update cycle preferences. (the distro)