How about a 100% cut on in-app purchases. And a 100% revenue tax. They shouldn’t exist.
Tim Sweeney supports a lawsuit against Valve?!?!
I’m shocked.
In other news, Pepsi agrees with the claims against coca cola
It won’t change the fact that no one wants to use your product, Tim.
How does he not know that this is obviously admitting defeat? It reeks of desperation.
This is like Drake being so humiliated by Kendrick Lamar that he sued his own record label.
It’s not about the epic store being a success. It’s about getting fortnite on steam with little to no fees being paid to steam. Just like the lawsuit against apple.
Wait…
People still play Fortnite?
Right this minute, if Fortnite players were all on Steam it’d be the #2 most popular game there, with a 24hr peak easily hitting #1. I’m not a fan of Tim either, but the game is still massively popular.
Like gangbusters.
If you don’t like it, you don’t have to use it. You got your own store, Timmy.
It isn’t fair that their store is vastly superior to mine and don’t pay developers to use it exclusively like we do! - little timmy wah wah boo hoo
Not how market dominance and unfair competition laws work though.
Maybe Timmy could try making a store people wanna use instead of whatever epic is
Sure, they can do that. Doesn’t prevent abuse of market dominance ok.
Fair
But I wanna riff on Timmy!
Heh :p
Name 2 anti-competitive actions steam has done.
Simply having a better product than your competiton does not make you anti-competitive.
Using your dominance in one market to gain advantage in another market is anti-competitive. I don’t think it’s cut-and-dry but I think there’s a good argument that they’re using their dominance in games distribution to gain an advantage in microtransaction handling.
I think Google (and Apple) using their app-delivery dominance to force app-makers to pay them a fee for in-app purchases is definitely bullshit. Consumers’ options are more limited there, but that just means the market dominance is greater: the same argument applies in the case of Steam and the question is just how dominant something has to be for this to be a problem.
I’d argue selling games and selling content in those games is the same market though.
And the problem with Google/Apple wasn’t “dominance”, but more “absolute control”, Apple blocked third party stores completely on their hardware, and Google had secret deals with phone manufacturers where they had to include all the Google apps and couldn’t include alternate app stores, and made using third party stores difficult. As long as Valve aren’t blocking third party stores on their OS and not being pre-shipped on the OS of most of Steam’s customers, there’s probably not much of a case.
If the majority of developers gave a shit about the difference between Valve’s 30% and EGS’s 10 or 15% cut, you’d think they’d actually be going over there. But they’re not. If anything, they put their game out everywhere. So clearly the 30% cut thing isn’t a problem. The only devs they are coaxing over to EGS over Steam are the ones they strike up exclusivity deals with, which is anti-competitive bullshit.
I think a majority of devs would jump ship if epic had the userbase, that 10-15% difference can be huge! But the store is bad and doesn’t have the consumers so it’s mostly a waste of resources
Prior to me switching to Linux, the main reason I preferred Steam over others was the Steam Workshop. Modding is typically so easy on Steam. As far as I’m aware, none of the other stores have that. I’d love to proven wrong though, because that just means more games can use mods.
But now, as far as I’m aware, Steam is the only major one that supports Linux.
They definitely do a lot to earn that 30%, there’s a ton of dev tools for games. Workshop, leaderboards, multiplayer, etc
Anyone else here old enough to remember old-school modding with multiplayer games? Having to make sure everyone at the LAN has the same base game with the right patches applied, the right mod versions and of course if a new version has come out since last meet there might be files that need to be changed/shifted/removed.
Ahh those were the days… that sucked. Thank god for Steam workshop! So much easier especially in games with deep support for it. ARK Survival Evolved for example. If you join a server that uses mods they automatically install from Workshop! What a time to be alive.
Though I have to admit, I haven’t used EGS for a while, I bet their version of Steam Workshop is even better! Otherwise Tim would look like an absolute muppet with the constant criticisms of other platforms.
Yup, and this kind of stuff is why I support the lawsuits against Valve - in the sense that I do want oversight and fair judgement on the issues being raised, especially since one included an email from a Valve employee saying a developer isn’t allowed to sell their game cheaper than on steam.
I imagine if Valve isn’t doing anything wrong, it’ll just waste some time - but it could also do good for game developers and players, by reducing the cut, but also potentially by opening up Steam’s tools for networking, input, workshop to not be locked into their platform (since that can definitely keep devs on steam in cases where they might want to diversify)
Offering servers as a service would be great, so many PC only games that rely on steam’s multiplayer would be easier to port!
People seem to forget that without courts of law, the steam refund policy wouldn’t exist. Valve fought tooth and nail to be exempt from that.
Sounds like a long winded way to say you don’t understand network effects or monopolies
How do Tim Sweeny’s balls taste? I imagine they’re kinda sour, but I figured I might ask someone who clearly has them in their mouth.
How does it feel not grasping what it means to be an antimonopolist? I imagine it’s kind of expensive.
You’re the one defending the anti-competitive company, dumbass. So I ask again: How do Sweeny’s balls taste?
Who is defending Epic? You seem to be conflating legitimate criticism of Valve (which everyone should do) with defending the douchebag Tim Sweeney (which no one should do). But it’s a false choice to think you have to support one team or the other; both companies can be bad, and criticism of app store fees (whether Apple’s or Valve’s) has nothing to do with supporting Epic, that’s just a false equivalence.
You literally are spouting out the same nonesense Sweeny does multiple places in this post. To say you’re not defending him or his platform is a blatant lie anyone with eyeballs reading this thread can see.
Good day, sir or madam.
Let’s say Donald Trump says corporate landlords shouldn’t be able to own houses. If someone else makes the same argument, that doesn’t make them a Trump supporter. You get that, right?
sounds like YOU don’t know what a monopoly is
This is about micro-transactions specifically. Tim Fortnite is arguing that games sold on Steam should be able to offer in-game purchases with payment options outside of Steam.
It’s very similar to Epic Games v. Apple, where Apple had required in-app purchases for iOS apps, notably Fortnite, to be handled through their app-store so they get a cut.
One big difference that I see here: On PC, a developer isn’t required to use Steam to distribute software. Players often prefer Steam because Valve has made Steam a great option and has lots of good-will with players. Still, Steam does dominate a massive portion of the PC market.
And a 30% cut is high. Especially for smaller games with less financial resources. As a developer, that’s a trade-off you’d have to choose. I think it’d be best to offer the game on multiple platforms.
For Steam-bought games, I think having an option to pay off-platform would be fair, but I think the option needs to remain available through Steam too. For many games, I don’t want to give my payment details to yet another developer, company or third-party.
Still, Steam does dominate a massive portion of the PC market.
Steam revenue in 2023: USD 8.5 bn.
Overall PC gaming revenue that year: 45 bn.
Steam is big but the biggest cash cows are Fortnite, Roblox, and Minecraft. Neither is on Steam.
Also, Microsoft uses their Windows monopoly to ship the Xbox Games store to almost every PC user.
If Steam had a dominating market position, the EU would have classified it as a gate keeper under the Digital Markets Act.
Tim Fortnite is arguing that games sold on Steam should be able to offer in-game purchases with payment options outside of Steam.
But they already can and already do. For example If I wanted to buy ARX for Elite Dangerous, you have to go through Frontier’s website to purchase it. Same for Daybreak cash for Planetside 2. And isn’t Maplestoy also on Steam? You most certainly have to kiss the Nexxon ring before purchasing NX.
By what definition is the 30% cut high? It’s the same percentage for Apple, Google, and Steam. Brick and mortar is generally around 50%. Amazon is a large range, but 30% is roughly average or even low. eBay charges less, but doesn’t do anything other than facilitate the transaction. Epic charges less to small developers, but that’s also mostly marketing.
It’s not about the “cut” you’re thinking; it refer to in-app purchases.
Once you bought a game, Valve keep demand a 30% cuts on anything you sell once the customer launch your executable (.exe, binary file/game engine).
hypothetical scenario to help visualize (it won’t go like that most of the time, but useful to understand the concept):
- customer Install and Launch Steam
- customer buy (Valve earn 30% cutshare) and install game on Steam
- customer uninstall Steam, keep installed game
- customer launch game (if is made in a way don’t need Steam dependencies).
- Anything sold while game engine is running must give 30%,of further earning, to Valve.
If a developer doesn’t like those terms, can’t they just remove their game from Steam or never release it there to begin with?
If a user doesn’t like those terms, they don’t have to buy the game.
Developers and users are voting with their wallets every day and the votes say Steam is worth the cost.
And a 30% cut is high.
Is it? It’s my understanding that it’s comparable to what brick and mortar stores would charge to have a game on their shelves.
Also, anyone who thinks EGS will keep developer fees low if they had a higher marketshare is incredibly naive.
Hmm, so is Tim Fortnite willing to let me purchase DLC from a third party store to go with that free game that I got on Epic?
Well Timmy that should make it pretty easy to make a platform that both users and content producers like more. If you actually try to compete you might accomplish something.
That’s a funny way of asking people to uninstall Epic’s game launcher & boycott their games.
Joke’s on you. EGS doesn’t support gaming on Linux and the Linux version of UnrealEngine is royally FUBAR so there is no reason to download it.
You don’t need to even have the launcher installed to claim the free EGS games. I usually claim them to support the developers.
Yeah being against Valve is just evil. I love giving money to Gaben. It gives me the sense of pride and accomplishment. I would never hurt him.
one day he will take me with him onto a yacht voyage
Tim’s opinion is clearly unbiased.
Tim, something, something about preventing games from being released on other storefronts…
Oh this is the same guy who said it was censorship when people said that maybe Grok shouldn’t create pictures of children in bikinis?
Yes.
He’s a slimeball.
Fuck off, Tim. The only reason people bother using your shitty-ass launcher is free games and you know it is true.
That’s not true!
Developers are also forced to use it to manage their Unreal Engine installs for some godforsaken reason.
Timmy, if even charging a lower fee, devs prefer steam over your shithole, I’m gonna go ahead and say that maybe there is a reason: your store sucks. Big time.
Right, because managing, securing, updating, and operating steam is all black magic that costs valve nothing.
Listen, they need that revenue for their R&D for the steam deck 2 and steam machines and shit. Fuck off ya hoser, eh?
Listen, they need that revenue for their R&D for the steam deck 2 and steam machines and shit. Fuck off ya hoser, eh?
And also for Gabe’s fleet of billionaire yachts
Hey, we don’t talk about that here! Gaben is wholesome and even though he is a billionaire who owns a yacht company funded by lootboxes, he’s one of the good ones!
I’m no Epic Games fan, but this is an overcorrection. Valve makes money hand over fist and they aren’t making those products simply out of passion. They’re doing it to make even more money. The company are pioneers in micro transactions and loot boxes. The other large game companies (and especially alternative storefronts) have just been so shit that gamers feel a weird attachment to this company.
How about you fuck off defending the mafioso vig that Apple, Google, and Valve have extorted from game developers for years, you monopoly bootlicker?
Nobody is forced to use any of those platforms.
You’re the one licking the boot of developers who just want to profit off of your stupidity.
Aw, those poor hardworking app stores with their razor-thin ::checks notes:: 78% profit margins
You’re a useful idiot.
Says the wanker defending billionaires’ profit margins
I’m not defending anyone.
I’m calling stupidity out for what it is.
Says who, the guy who is all-in on AI and is probably a TESCREAL-believing dipshit?
