Whatever you’re doing, what is calling 48 times going to do?
Ordering 48 separate pizzas.
Reminds me of My Very Eager Mother but at 533%
worth the gains
It’s hard to reach orgasm if the phone is ringing constantly. He can’t keep you from cheating, but he can keep you from enjoying it.
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it’s not cheating if I’m poly and my gfs are into it
That’s tautological. Of course “doing X in relationship model where X isn’t considered cheating” is not considered cheating
this, honestly, monogamy is creepy. Only I’m allowed access to your body!!! My concent overrides my partners concent when it comes to her body.
Tf is that?
Huh? Monogamy is remaining loyal to one person. Cheaters are scum
Are you loyal though? are you still with your first partner ever? or have you switched at some point? do you still have to be loyal to them?
relationships change, thats normal and natural. why stay with someone because of loyalty? did you sweat an oath on your first date?
Quality shitpost reply, I think people forget what community they’re in here.
sadly, not a shitpost, I see monogamy as unethical. relationships aren’t sports, aren’t property, you cannot “cheat” to win, it makes no sense.
lying is a problem.
if my partner came from a conference and told me she got railed by half the conference attendants I’ll be glad she enjoyed herself. and if she wouldn’t trust me to tell the truth it means there was no relationship to begin with as there’s no trust.
no idea why most people are obsessed with controlling their partners genitals.
Because Sex is not like watching a movie, for entertainment.
It is a natural process you do with the mate you choose to generate offspring.
If you do it with others than your mate, it is disloyalty
Damn, that is one Christian tradwife take.
So gay sex isn’t real sex? if my partner reaches menopause, it isn’t sex?
Find me exactly, where in the human manual and rules it says so? oh wait, it doesn’t exist. we are free to make our own rules and relationships as we please.
Loyalty? tf is that for. I want my partner to be with me because they want to be with me, not because they swore an oath to only fuck me.
In that case I rescind my vote. Also 🖕
Damn, I’m willing to talk, been honest in all the threads that this conversation has spawned.
I get that it is an unpopular opinion, but still. not like I insulted you.
I even made sure to clarify that it wasn’t a troll opinion, because I value honesty.
My concent overrides my partners concent when it comes to her body.
It doesn’t, but everybody is free to decide whether, how and when they wanna have sex with a person again. For example not having (unprotected penetrative) sex for one to four months could be a response to a partner having (unprotected penetrative) sex with somebody they didn’t know. That’s already a more open minded approach.
you cannot “cheat” to win
You cheat if you have an agreement and you break it. That’s pretty much it. That can also happen with poly.
You can have agreements to make it easier/safer to have unprotected or messy sex.
The main reasons are probably offsprings and STIs. One is how invested a person will or has to be if a pregnancy was to happen. The other is about condoms, prevention, testing and so forth. It’s also easier to judge if you only have to consider one or a low amount of people. (Not that I’ve ever had sex.)
If you have a relationship with someone who doesn’t care about STDs or pregnancy scares, then that’s on you, don’t have irresponsible partners. yhea, what they did is stupid and dangerous, but it only affects you if you concent to be with them. if they lie about it, that’s another problem, and I would consider it as them raping you as you did not have informed concent.
We use protection with strangers and test every 3 months.
byw, I talk about poly, but I personally only have bandwidth for one person, she has her dates, and I’m happy for her. and I have my heart open form other people if they appear magically in my house but I’m not actively looking for more partners. When she took a break from dating I jokes that were acidentally monogamous.
(for the record: I didn’t downvote you)
if they lie about it, that’s another problem
if they lie about it […]s them raping you as you did not have informed concent.
Lying and betrayal are the core issues of cheating. Although what counts as cheating varies, since it is based on implicit and explicit agreements.
Cheating can also happen by accident if implicit agreements are used, but different ones by both parties. One party would still feel betrayed even if it wasn’t intentional.
then that’s on you, don’t have irresponsible partners.
That’s probably why you get downvoted that much. If your partner doesn’t behave how you expect them to and breaks your agreements, that’s not on you. If they also lie, even less.
We use protection with strangers and test every 3 months.
What would you do if your partner cheated on you? Decided to go for a creampie once, but doesn’t tell you because they know that overstepped your boundaries and that knowledge would hurt you?
Or slightly different scenario: Decided to go for a creampie once, but tells you that the condom broke.
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I exist mostly without relationships. I can barely fathom living with one romantic person. If that person then was able to execute sexual acts with others on a regular basis with relative ease I dont think we’d be compatible because our lives would be too different, experiences too different.
I can imagine, however, a different scenario wherein both of us pay for professional, independent sex workers occasionally-primarily themselves that are also adept in therapeutic massage. Maybe. But still it does seem like an odd zeitgeist for romantic relationships right now.
All relationships are unique, and there are no (there are, but there shouldn’t be) guidelines on what makes a relationship real or not.
I have bad cPTSD from a previous DV relationship and I get nightmarish flashback episodes when I get in romantic relationships, so me and my partners agreed that I’m not able to have romantic relationships. so our relationship is defined by what we agreed on (look into “relationship smorgasbord”), we have intimacy, because human to human touch and affection is something I need regularly and she does too. and I encourage her to find the romantic affection with other partners. overall it’s a healthy relationship based on trust communication and care.
the notion of only one acceptable form of relationship is so primitive, based on medieval property rights and religion. build you own relationships however you want/need/able.
ps: this school of thought isnt Ethical non-monogamy, but “relationship anarchy”.
You:
“all relationships are unique, and there are no (there are, but there shouldn’t be) guidelines on what makes a relationship real or not […] build your own relationship however you want/need/able”
Also you
“I still think monogomy is unethical and it’s cruel to expect that of a partner” (paraphrased)
Lol, lmao even
Not very relationship-anarchic of you to hierarchisize relationships, with some being inherently more ethical than others
It’s interesting you say you dont get why people are so obsessed with other people’s genitals, when you seemingly care very much about the supposed unethicalness of other adults consentual sex lives. You’ve somehow managed to flip the very same ideological structure that has allowed poly people to be prosecuted historically, and just pointed that oppressive structure at monogamous folks instead. It’s in essence the very same mechanism just with the details flipped.
I think you should reflect upon that. It’s obvious from your comments that there’s the same sort of mechanism at play as when traditionalists prejudice poly people. It’s a failure to empathize. Some things work best for some people, and that’s okay, let them live in their way, and some other things work best for some other people, and that’s okay too, also let them live in their way.
me: I think slavery is bad because it unfairly controls other people
You: you are the unethical one. trying to control what other people do with lives
not a serious answer, doesn’t warrant a serious response.
instead of pointing why my grievances with monogamy are wrong, (mentioned repeatedly in many of the threads that spawn here), you just made up a bs reason why any moral standards is unethical.
I never called you unethical.
I also find it ironic how you managed to compare monogamy to slavery, and then proceed to call me the unserious one. I dont see how they are comparable at all.
How is a relationship wherein both people agree that, as long as they are together they only have sex with one another, and, if that agreement can no longer be honored, to go their separate ways, be unethical? Thats consent and boundary establishment and free association all the way through…
Social punishment for cheating, is often social isolation. I don’t think a minor victimless infraction warrant said punishment.
And the fact that there’s another person who has the right to consent on your own body sounds very iffy.
Also, we treat “monogamy” as a natural thing. it isn’t. if it was, there would be no divorces, breakups, or affairs.
Also the state and religions push monogamy as the upmost important relationship in someone’s life, rather than community, which atomises people and destroys communities with the modern invention of “nuclear family”. where evey need is comodified rather than being provided by a community.
Pls dont forget Jesus
never cheated but it got me thinking
you telling me you never used cheat codes in age of empires II?
how do you turn this on
i mean just spit on it, really
BIGDADDY
Oh, wrong version
Reminds me of my drug dealer back in the early 2000s. He wanted to get some Adderall but I was in a movie theater. Checked my phone to over 200 missed calls.
Remind you 48 times that you’re a dirty whore?
And keep the line occuppied 😈
Hopefully play your heartstrings while you contemplate why you have the morals of a cactus.
I was hanging out with a lady friend after work the other night (I am also a lady), and her husband straight up called her 8 times. My husband called me 0 times. Cause I told him where I’d be and with who, and he trusted me… she was completely floored that my husband didn’t even call me once. I was floored that her husband called her at all.
Without trust, there is no love -Moulin Rouge (and probably a quote from something else)
She’s back!!!
To tell you that you’re moving out?
Women I have respect for you don’t do it.
you mean calling 48 times? agree, a text message is enough.
Send the message “oh, so I guess he wasn’t cheating on me at the same time.”
If I would be her cuck, I would calmly and humbly wait for a pleasure to talk to her.
Dude, you can do better
yhea, rather than just wait, he can do chores.
Good idea 👍🏻
Thanks for care, but no need – I am just into femdom.
Like being single, for example.
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am I the only one who doesn’t give a fuck about cheating? just be careful with std, test regularly, and have fun.
Can you imagine if your partner said you’re only allowed to eat her cooking, anything else is cheating and you are a horrible person if a coworker offered a snack and you accepted?
What you are describing is an open relationship, so both parties are in a relationship but may seek sexual pleasure elsewhere.
Cheating on the other side has a core component which is the problem, lying.
that’s what I practice and am open about it. I hate those who say they are poly as an excuse after being caught cheating. Not because of the cheating itself, but because they lied to get with someone they knew won’t want that. Therefore the cheated partner had no informed consent. And I’m not sure this is a mainstream view. but I consider informed consent as consent, and therefore no informed consent is rape.
Someone who lies about who they are to have sex is a rapist, just using conman tricks instead of drugs or force. And should be seen by society as such.
I may misunderstood what you mean, but from what I got I disagree.
A person who cheates on their partner may have done psychological harm because of their lie, but no rape happened, since both people engaging in the sexual activity consented to it. Although the partner likely is against it, they are not a party to this activity and therefore their consent or non consent does not matter, at least as it depends on if this action can be considered rape.
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Imagine you have a relationship where one of the rules each person is expected to follow is “Do not have sex with other people.” You both agreed to it. Then you find out the other person broke it. Trust is gone.
This would be different than someone saying “Hey, I know we agreed to this rule, but can we revisit that?” and having a grownup discussion about ENM alternatives, where someone has the opportunity to say that is a dealbreaker for them or declare boundaries that make this OK with them.
Nonmonogamy is cool if everyone is aware and onboard. Fuck cheaters. If you’re going to claim monogamy without actually being monogamous, don’t enter into a relationship on those terms and save everyone the grief/waste of time/psychological damage.
i find such rule to be inherently controlling and coercive. and used to punish abused and neglected partners who find affection elsewhere but can’t leave their relationship due to coersion or fear of homelessness.
Cheating like that should be like “we agreed were both in a diet, but I had a donut that someone brought to the office”, not “you are inherently a horrible human being who deserves to be shamed and hated for seeking human connection”.
If two parties agreed to it under no sense of duress then anyone who betrayed the mutual trust required is making a selfish choice.
If your feelings toward the agreement change you need to have a discussion with the other person.
You can say they’re antiquated for agreeing to it, you can even say that it’s an unrealistic expectation but if it’s consensually agreed to it’s about trust in your partner’s word
I would never agree to those terms, so they don’t apply to me.
the problem is that society, states, and religion pushes those standards as if they are the only correct form of relationships. they are arbitrary rules based on ancient forms of control, where women were seen as free household labor and baby factories.
I empathize. Women are absolutely coerced into a role by modern society a habit we are sadly falling back into and that is horrible.
However, to say that no two people wish for a monogamous relationship and that trust ultimately doesn’t matter is a step too far for me. But I understand why someone would feel that way.
I too have seen people trapped in a loveless marriage.
still agree with that. it’s a stupid standard that hurts and shackles people rather than help them
so many loving relationships are torn because an affair, even an emotional one, even if one partner does noting but just develops feelings (100% out of their control), or worse, jealousy. all because monogamy is the standard.
ask elder people who were married through most of their lives and they all have stories of those hardships and how it hurt them.
wouldn’t it be nicer and simpler of cheating was viewed with the same severity as cheating in a diet? rather than being a devastating blow to a relationship and might even lead to severe social punishment?
We are animals we need connections and we aren’t always in control regarding what connections form.
So am I correct in saying under your framework monogamy can never be chosen freely? Or would it be at more accurate to say that if it was chosen it’ll be chosen via action and not agreement?
If two parties agreed to it under no sense of duress
As long as monogamy is considered the default and something most people wouldn’t ever consider getting away from, it’s impossible to enter a monogamous relationship absent coercion, because the coercion is societal.
Just like there’s no such thing as voluntary employment under a capitalist system, there’s no such thing as voluntary monogamy in a world dominated by Western, Bronze-age sexual politics.
Then don’t enter into relationships where that’s a rule, or negotiate alternatives 🤷♂️
I’m not going to say there aren’t circumstances where cheating is understandable, but it’s still a bad thing to do, even in the scenario you describe. Taking the abused and neglected cheating partner’s perspective - what happens when your partner finds out? What happens when someone else finds out and uses this information to blackmail you? Are you really going to be better off than you would’ve been making and executing an escape plan instead?
Cheating almost always outs. Everyone thinks they’re going to be the exception, but by definition few are. If you’re unhappy in your relationship, either get all people in the relationship onboard to start addressing that, or leave. If leaving is going to create problems, prepare in advance to address those problems. IMO you’ll be better off for it v. cheating.
you’ve never been in an abusive relationship and it shows. Ideally no one should ever be in one.
I hope it’s ok if I copy pase a reply I did to someone else, but I’m getting a lot of replies and there’s no point in writing the same thing twice:
I would never agree to those terms, so they don’t apply to me.
the problem is that society, states, and religion pushes those standards as if they are the only correct form of relationships. they are arbitrary rules based on ancient forms of control, where women were seen as free household labor and baby factories.
Don’t mind the copy-paste at all, and I happen to (more or less) agree with the statement as is.
My counterpoint is despite these pressures, it is something you do not have to accept for yourself, but not at the expense of violating the trust of someone you promised you’d be monogamous with. You can be poly, you can swing, you can have mistresses/whatever the masculine equivalent word is, whatever. But you have to be honest in your romantic/sexual dealings, so people can make choices that are appropriate for them with a full understanding. And if you are in a relationship where you can’t be honest, then IMO you need to get out. Nothing good will come from staying, and much worse can come from cheating.
I will admit, however, that I have not been in a abusive relationship in the strictest sense of the term (what’s a little financial abuse and gaslighting between friends - I’d put an emoji here but can’t find one bitter enough. I understand what you mean though), and that does inform/limit my perspective.
We may need to agree to disagree here.
this isn’t a debate, just a conversation. I have no expectation for anyone to change their minds. if I have any goal, is that everyone should question the rules and norms we inherited from our societies. even if you agree with them, it’s important to question.
and monogamy in particular, is one of those norms most people just passively accept without thinking about it. If you agree with it, go ahead, but it’s important to take a moment and question it.
Damn, had no idea how unpopular that opinion was. I expect it to be unpopular, just not universally so. still, I will die in this hill. Suggest people to check out “relationship anarchy”. And I will be open about it, so absolutely no one who wants monogamous relationship ends up with me, I wouldn’t want to hurt anyone.
If you’re open about it ahead of time, that’s not cheating. Cheating is when you go behind your partner’s back with someone outside of the established relationship.
Relationships are built on trust and establishing boundaries. Cheating (as the name indicates) breaks both of these. It’s completely different from an open relationship due to one missing and very important component: consent. If your partner is okay with it, have all the (safe) sex you want. But going behind a loyal partner’s back and breaking their trust is of course going to hurt them.
Even if they would have been okay with an open relationship, you not asking beforehand will have them wondering why you hid it from them, if they did something wrong, if they’re not good enough for you, if you ever loved them at all, and what else you might be doing behind their back. Your betrayal will have destroyed their trust in you, and rebuilding the relationship will be an uphill battle if it’s even possible at all.
me and my partner are open about who goes on dates with whom. not for a sense of control, or even trust, just because we like each other and are interested in each other’s lives. And if they completely forget to tell me, not a big deal. she is not my property, I’m just happy to share time with her whenever she wants to be with me.
Just like friends, you don’t tell your friends when you hang out with another friend and what you do with them. you might if it is relevant to the conversation or they might care. but witholding that information isn’t lying by omission.
all those rules you are bringing up, aren’t rules you and your partner decided, those are default social rules enforced by religions and the state and comes from medieval property laws. you should sit with your partner and decide what your relationship should look like. even if neither of you want other partners, having that conversation and critically questioning monogamy would be a healthy conversation.
I agree with you that societal rules are mostly arbitrary bullshit. Communication and consent are the important things. Your relationship should work the way its participants all agree on.
You might want to edit your original post though. You’re probably getting downvoted so heavily because without that context it sounds like you were cheating on an unknowing partner and couldn’t see any problem with it.
I still think that “cheating” is not a big deal. I’ve never cheated in my monogamous relationships, but still, although saying that is just bullshit virtue signaling. I think my opinions should have the same weight even if I was a cheating whore.
I actually appreciate the engagement, I’m not a troll, and don’t try to rage bait. but it resulted in quite a lot of fruitful and interesting conversations.
If it is really good cooking and I get lunch packs. (And am still allowed to cook for myself)
